Kununurra tragedy

Submitted: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 12:14
ThreadID: 68975 Views:8652 Replies:17 FollowUps:32
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Gidday

This report is from The West Australian ... I am sure most people on here know the dangers associated with recovering vehicles, this is a reminder that you can't be TOO careful.



Girl killed in freak accident

18th May 2009, 13:30 WST



A 13-year-old girl was killed near Kununurra yesterday after being struck by a four-wheel-drive roo-bar that was pulled off a bogged vehicle as it was being towed out of a creek bed.

Major Crash squad detectives are investigating the incident that took place in rugged bushland an hour’s drive west of Kununurra.

A police spokesperson said details of the incident were sketchy at this stage but it appeared the roo-bar had become dislodged from a Toyota Landcruiser driven by the girl’s father as the vehicle was being towed out of a creek bed by a Nissan Patrol 4WD.

The incident happened late yesterday afternoon.

The girl and her father were taking part in a Rotary Club 4WD event when their vehicle became bogged near Deception Range in the Kimberley.

The Nissan Patrol attached a snatch strap to the Landcruiser that pulled part of the roo-bar off the vehicle.

The snatch strap and part of the roo-bar are understood to have recoiled and hit the girl.

She was given first-aid at the scene and taken to Kununurra District Hospital but was pronounced dead on arrival.

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Reply By: Member - Frogman (WA) - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 12:26

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 12:26
This is very sad and I am sure there are lessons we can all learn.The first one is you can never be too careful during vehicle recovery. TRAVEL SAFE BE SAFE.







AnswerID: 365651

Reply By: vk1dx - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 13:20

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 13:20
That's not a freak accident. Fool for using the roo bar. Why not a recovery point. I just cannot understand the ineptness of some people.

And the worse thing is that the one who suffers is the one who is totally innocent.

No sympathy for the so called adults but buckets of tears for the innocent.

Sad
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Reply By: GoneTroppo Member (FNQ) - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 13:21

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 13:21
Sad proof for what everyone is (should be) tought.

Never never never attach any kinetic recovery device to a bull ball. it needs to go on a rated recovey point, normally attached to the chassis.
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Follow Up By: Member - Old/new Girl (QLD) - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 13:36

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 13:36
I tried to stop a fella trying to do the same thing once. His attitude to me was what do you know your a female. So I queitly walked away. Sure enough it broke.
Why are kids next to the bloody thing anyhow. With that some reporters report what they want us to know. Will be interesting to here more reports and see what realy went on.
I will add our rally wont allow kids because there is so much going on that kids seem to slip in places they shoulnt be.
Sharon
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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 13:39

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 13:39
Hi Rocco
It has not made news here in SA. Very tragic for the family of the young girl.

How many times do you hear of these type of incidents from people that do not no how to safely use basic recovery gear.

Not blaming the Rotary Club involved, but with this type of event, all organisers should be made to do basic recovery courses and the safe way of using any type of recovery equipment. It goes to show that both drivers, the Nissan and the Toyota had no idea of what they were doing.

A very tragic waste of life and one that you can not turn back the time on.

Cheers

Stephen
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AnswerID: 365657

Reply By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 13:47

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 13:47
Unfortunately this sort of thing is all to frequent and age isn't a boon to knowing better.

It just doesn't always end in tragedy,









Geoff

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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 14:45

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 14:45
I see someone put mud on the number plate??????
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 14:47

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 14:47
That would have been me!

I didn't want to have an irate landy owner leaking oil in my driveway!

Geoff

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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 14:53

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 14:53
They need to be shamed Geoff. Especially those from 1986 I believe. And a maroon follower to boot.

If the ones in Kununurra had seen this them maybe that 13 year old would have had a future.

What price the diplomatic or politically correct way of doing things hey.

3 and a half days to go now but who is counting.

Phil

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Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:33

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:33
G'day Geoff,

I was about to say that only the small items become projectiles but this bar looks like it also went a fair way! The guy in the second pic (looks like the LR driver) seems to have some distance between him and the vehicle and is walking like he has some distance to go.

Kind regards
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:50

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:50
Hi Beatit,

That's my take on it too, even if it went a metre imagine how much energy is required to break its mounts, tear out the power cable to the winch and then throw it that metre!

You and I together would struggle to throw an aluminium bullbar on its own out of those shot frames. Imagine the force to throw the winch too!

There's at least 2 guys carrying it with a one hand assist from the third bloke just to load it into the back of that ute!

The main reason I posted that sequence is firstly to remind myself and then to show others how much energy is released in a snatch assist when it goes horribly wrong.

Geoff

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Follow Up By: Chev-Patrol 6.5 V8 D - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:52

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:52
Reminds me of a story told to our 4 wheel drive club by Greg Moore from TJM in Adelaide a few years ago.

He had been the trip leader and their group was at Birdsville. They'd been out playing on Big Red for the day and just as they were getting ready to go back to town, they saw a convoy coming in from the west.

They decided to stop and watch the vehicles attempt the sand dune's western face.

Apparently all except one vehicle did it okay. It was a Maverick which had several goes, but just couldn't get over the top.

As Greg and his "gang" sat and watched, the blokes in the new convoy decided to snatch the Maverick over the remainder of the dune.

They attached the snatch strap to the TOP rail of the Maverick's alloy bullbar. Greg went over to advise them against doing this, but they told him to "go away and make love to somebody".....

So, before these blokes could finish rigging up the snatch strap to the back of the Disco (recovery vehicle), Greg and his crew all set-off back to Birdsville; not wanting to see what happened (and obviously not welcomed).

Some time later, at the caravan park, they watched the new convoy come into town. The back of the Disco was all stoved-in and the Maverick's bullbar now had a new location; on the roof rack!!!!!!

Ya just can't tell some blokes!!!!
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Follow Up By: P7OFFROAD Accredited Driver Training - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 04:10

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 04:10
wow, those pictures look just like the ones that i took almost exactley two years ago at indian Head... you must have been stading right next to me to get the same angles that I did.


;-)
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 10:07

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 10:07
Hi Dave,
Now I remember were they came from! They are yours posted elsewhere!

I love them for the fact they are a graphic illustration of what can and will go wrong if you don't respect recovery gear.

What are you doing on the net at 4:10 AM?

Geoff

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Reply By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 13:48

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 13:48
One thing I suggest is that you don't carry a snatch strap as a rule
and unless you really need it, we changed over to winch straps a long time ago and only ocassionly take a snatch.

The winch strap is similar looking but doesn't store the kinetic energy. Its worth getting both long and shorts ones as well as they take up less room.

The times you need a snatch strap over the steady pull of a winch are small , and doing this sort of inbuilds an extra saftey mechanism.

Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 14:15

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 14:15
Sorry Robin.

Not the best idea. You take all recovery gear and use the right tool for the job.

That's why responsible 4WD drivers do courses. I did one and my wife did hers this weekend. And I used to be a recovery mech in the Army one or two decades back. See I knew it all HAH I thought I did. Things have changes since we used chains and steel ropes.

No Sorry. Firstly do a course. Take it all and use the right tool properly as designed for the job at hand.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:00

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:00
Hi Phil

Thats the difference between theory and practise.

You and I might do courses, have the tools and make the right judgements.

In the actual world out there it doesn't happen that way by an overwhelming majority.

People do use anything that comes along, and consequences occur much more often than ideal results.

Things need to be intrinsically safe, not safe only if used correctly.

Whats of concern to me is that a steady and patient straight pull
is normally required and most (but clearly not all) snatches are un-necessary and should be used as a last, not first resort.
Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:37

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:37
I think the problem here is that we do not know if they tried the slow steady pull before trying the snatch strap. All I know is that the snatch strap is excellent for the job it is designed to do. As is the winch strap you prefer. And the winch and a chain and a steel rope. They all are.

The problem is that they used the bullbar, and we would never never tow using a bull bar. I would gather that you would be the same.

Phil

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Follow Up By: tim_c - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:44

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:44
Robin, you say: "Things need to be intrinsically safe, not safe only if used correctly."
You seem to be saying that things need to be idiot-proof. The trouble is, as soon as you make something idiot-proof, someone makes a better idiot.
Think of the petrol you put into your car - is that intrinsically safe, or safe only when used correctly? There are many things that are very dangerous, but can be tremendously useful when treated with the appropriate 'respect' and caution. This would include snatch straps, petrol, chainsaws, helicopters, ladders, 240v electricity, cars, etc.
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Follow Up By: tim_c - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:47

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:47
BTW: I hope you don't think I'm saying what has happened is acceptable - it most certainly isn't. I agree with OzTroopy's comment below (reply 9)
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:48

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:48
Hi Phil

I make no direct comment on this sad case.

On the general question , I would not even use a steel winch rope, due to their stored energy , let alone attach it to a bullbar.

The winch extension strap (made out of seat belt material) should put no more load on a bullbar than the winch operation itself whereas a snatch strap puts several times the load.

Hence even when used incorrectly the winch strap (not winch rope) is intrinsically safer.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 16:04

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 16:04
....I know of someone who mistook a winch extension strap for a snatch strap (well I assume that’s what happened).....end result was demolished rear door on a Landcruiser when the winch extension strap snapped.

Cheers
Greg

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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 16:19

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 16:19
Hi Tim

Overall it doesn't work like that, while their are always those who misuse things - overall the whole accident rate drops when ever a product is engineered safter.

Classic case being air-bags

We know air-bags have been responsible for about 36 deaths directly, and saved over 3000 lives.

While we all regret the 36 we must all continue to support the system that saves 100 times that figure.






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Follow Up By: Dasher Des - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 16:38

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 16:38
A snatch strap should be used as a last resort, not the first resort, and then only after you have been safely trained in its proper use.
Such a tragic waste of a life for something so easily avoided.
Regardless of what the circumstances happened, my sympathies to all those involved.
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Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 19:40

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 19:40
Robin, I Totally agree, a Nice steady pull with the right recovery vehicle Beats tear arse operaters with snatch straps, they are a lethal weapon. Ten ton logs were pulled out of gullies with bullock teams using mild steel chain, years ago , don't recall to many stories from the old blokes of accidents that killed workers from towing things!, NICE AND STEADY is the way to go!


Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 20:04

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 20:04
Does anyone know if a slow and steady approach was used first in Kununurra?

Try pulling a 3.5 ton car out of a mud hole with a slow and steady approach with a winch strap with the same size car. Dont forget to use a winch strap there isn't any run up. Just get the strat taught and you can just drive away!.

Well that's what you are saying will be the best method. Reckon it will work. How about on sand. Isn't there a big risk with a slow and steady approach that the towing vehicle, which is also on the beach, will get bogged also. It has been done.

Tools for the right job has been the claims all the way through. No matter whether you use wire, winsh strap, rope, snatch strap or chain.

Get back on the topic. The twits used a dangerous (robins words I think) to a bull bar.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 20:15

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 20:15
Also Do you really think I would go racing off in a tear *** (whatever you said) way and damage my car because some other person made a miistake and took on more than they could handle and couldn't get them selves out. It cost me heaps and I bet they would not help if I bent my suspension. Not likely. Take your time and winch them out. So what if they are late. What's the rush. This is supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable.

One thing I learnt from this forum is to be prepared and don't go to where you can't get yourself out of. Be prepared, take care of your car and plan well and always check it out. Whats wrong with the chicken track.

And before you jump on me being selfish, I am always prepared to help as much as I can, and have done so even in the old 2wd.
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Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 20:33

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 20:33
I can't see anything i've said that relates to direct criticism to

you Vk1dx, Lay down , chill out, Everyone has an opinion and it will always be different to yours, So get over it!!!...LOL.


Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 21:47

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 21:47
I did get a little carried away.

I was attempting to get a couple of the "posters" (if thats the right noun) to understand that there is nothing wrong with using a snatch strap where it is the right tool for the job. Time goes on and tools get better. We don't use animals now we use dedicated tractors. Maybe next year we will get better bullbars.

Re your comment to me:
I took your comment as saying that I, as a proponent of the use of snatch straps in the correct situation, was one of those "tear arse", bull in a jewelry shop, type of drivers who does not care too hoots about others. I gather from your comment I missunderstood who you were referring to and retract my comments.

This has all gotten out of hand and way off the topic. One should NEVER use an anchor point that is not rated for what you are going to do. That is what appears to have led to an unfortunate death.
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Follow Up By: Shaver - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 11:25

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 11:25
Well all I can say VK1DX that from one ex Regular Reccy Mech to another (M543 - Diamonds etc ) you can't have learnt much on your Army course to have to now do a 4WD course no matter how long ago it was. Properly trained Army Rec Mech's are one of the best if they do all the courses including Advanced Recovery, so obviously you were asleep. When I got out Civvy Heavy Salvage contractors bent over backwards to secure Army trained personel because they knew they were a cut above the rest. You may have been one by definition, but I would say you had minimal expertise in the field, & probably never left Aust in order to get experience in a war situation(my opoligies if you have). Sorry for being so hard on you, but experience never fades away ! I was trained by Ken Corrigan Husten & my fellow Rech Mechs at the time like Bert Gough & Shorty Evans went on to be in charge of the Recovery Training School at Bandiana as WO's. I may sound like I'm beating my drum, but I bet the Instructor on the 4WD Course had a bit of a laugh when you told him you were a ex Rec Mech, as he was probably one himself.
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Follow Up By: tim_c - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 11:25

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 11:25
Very good points vk1dx. Just because you use a snatch strap doesn't mean you are irresponsible. Problems happen when the said snatch strap is used irresponsibly - that's what makes someone irresponsible - and that same irresponsible person will use all their equipment irresponsibly.

I must admit, the snatch strap is the first thing we use (because it's the quickest), but first with just a gentle tug (usually it's enough). If we have to tug harder and still not getting anywhere, we go for a winch rather than break things.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 12:35

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 12:35
It is a requirement of the club we just joined to do the course if you wish to drive during any of their events/treks.

Shaver - I switched corps and went to electronics almost straight after the course. Who wants to be a towie for the rest of his life. Not me! I ended up being a Systems Analyst working on the very latest in computers and communications. No climbing and crawling around under stuck APC's or D8's. No wonder I cannot remember how many litres the motor in old Diamond was. Who gives a rats. It really does not matter.

At least I now read the instructions before building the cabinet for my wife. I even read the packing and instructions on the snatch strap. And on the new axe for our trips. I will bet you didn't. You would just assume you knew all. It has taken my wife 39 years to get me to read the instructions. And yoy know what - It doesn't hurt. A good time to get her to make me a cuppa while I do read them. Smoothe hey!!!

I said, tongue in cheek, that I "knew all" to get the readers attention. Not to brag. In fact just the opposite. You are never too old to learn about something new.

I am outa here.

Hey Tim-c thanks.
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Follow Up By: Shaver - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 13:17

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 13:17
vk1dx,

You have taken for granted that I was a "Towy" for the rest of my life. No mate ! I done my 6 & then for the next 20 years worked for PMG/Telecom/ Telstra as a Technician plus had a Boat Hire business, so you are not altogether as smart as you make out, nor I as dumb as. As for changing Corps, you were in RAEME as Rec Mech & they also do Electronics, so what Corp did you go to from there, Sigs. If you had I would have thought that they only usually take in Apprentices through Balcombe to learn Electronics. Seems to be something missing here or maybe times have changed eh ! End of matter & we will let this Post get back to where it was intended in the first place.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 13:31

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 13:31
Okay I agree lets let this ride. Seems to me we are both guilty of not knowing the facts.

Check the adult tradesman scheme. RAEME did not do base reapair on crypto and thats where I wanted to go as I was studying Applied Mathematics at the UNSW before being called up. They covered all my costs to continue with my studies. RAEME wouldn't. Got my civvy qualifications. 2 years nascho and 18 regular. But I had to sign on beforte switching to sigs.

Bugger this. I should never had gotten involved. And I never will again. The whole point of my posting to this tragic story about the girl getting killed was to suggest that we all need to be carefull and use the correct tool for the job at hand. I stupidly mentioned that I had done some rec work in the Army and it blew up from there.

Fair enough and cheers
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Reply By: Rod W - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 14:21

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 14:21
Very tragic for all concerned. No doubt there will be a Coroners Inquest.
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Reply By: tim_c - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:08

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:08
Rule #1 might be to use only a rated recovery point (ie. not a bull/roo bar)

Rule #2 must surely be to get all the spectators well clear of the recovery.
AnswerID: 365670

Reply By: OzTroopy - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:40

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 15:40
A terrible example of a lack of commonsense and knowledge.

One can only hope that the loss of a life will prompt others to take more care in the future.
AnswerID: 365675

Reply By: Member - Kroozer (WA) - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 16:18

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 16:18
Very very sad, and until we know the truth lets not judge.

Im sure we are all guilty of what has happened here. Dont try tell me 20 years ago that you always used rated recovery points. I dont think they existed.

BUT, yes in this day and age it should be common sense that you would only use rated recovery points. But what if the vehicle didnt have them? I have been guilty many times of using towing hooks, bullbars, tow bars even the leaf springs once. I quiver at the thought now, well and truly scares the bleep out of me, but none of them cars had rated recovery points. My bullbar is full steel, and has side bars welded into place either side but i have never done it with a snatch strap, rope and chain yes. I prefer to just use my very thick rope before getting my snatch strap dirty, as we never get bogged bad enough to require much effort to come back out again.

Im more of a fan of good quality drag chain and good thick rope. Never needed a winch, as an old wise friend once told me, ''why do people put winches on the front of there car, when there stuck why the hell would you wanna keep going forward. I wanna get the hell out and go back home".

If i had a winch, bloody hell, there would be tracks all across the country. Would love one if i needed one, but for what i do its just overkill.

Actually how many people out there have drag chains and do you know what it is rated for? Anything under 10mm would be useless. If your winch cable and snatch strap is rated at say 9,000kg and you wanted a drag chain of the equivalent then you would need chain around the 16mm mark. Try lug that around in the car.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 16:21

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 16:21
I agree, it is certainly a case where sympathy is required rather than judgement.
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Follow Up By: Mikee5 (Logan QLD) - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 09:55

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 09:55
Hi Kroozer, I first joined a club in 1977 and they had an orientation day for new and prospective members where they inspected recovery points, they had to be approved by the club and painted yellow, at least one at each end on the vehicle, no approved recovery points meant no club trips. At that time I had an FJ40 with two recovery hooks at both the front and the back.
Those were the days.
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Reply By: Member - Redbakk (WA) - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 16:20

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 16:20
Roo bars and tow balls are not recovery points, but the thing we learn from history is........."that we learn NOTHING from history"...... and so, people being creatures of habit, will do it again....and again....and again.

They will always throw caution to the wind and take the path of least resistance.

This is not the first....and will not be the last.
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Reply By: roofcoatings - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 16:58

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 16:58
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Advertising/Self-Promotion Rule .

Forum Moderation Team
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Reply By: Member - Bentaxle - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 17:18

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 17:18
It would seem that if the vehicle was bogged in a creek bed it would be a fair guess it would have been mud not sand. I was taught that a snatchstrap is ideal for recovery from sand, but, recovery from mud requires a different technique using a steady pressure to break the suction of the mud and this would require the use of a winch extension strap. If this had been done maybe just maybe the young girl would be alive today. As we all know any recovery situation is fraught with danger.

Mike
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Follow Up By: Oldsquizzy (Kununurra) - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 21:26

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 21:26
Was mud
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Reply By: D200Dug- Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 17:28

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 17:28
Sadly this is not a freak accident.

It is the result of a combination of errors as most serious or fatal incidents usually are.

From the report (1) the recovery was flawed due to someone not using the correct tow points and (2) a person being within the danger zone during the recovery.


Similar incidents have happened before and will sadly happen again.

Everyone involved in the incident will live with the scars for the rest of their lives. It is just not worth the pain.
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Reply By: Beemer - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 21:04

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 21:04
G'day Everyone,

Don't take offence, but everyone is making a mistake here. That is "That we are assuming" what happened. I have worked at many accidents and one thing I have learnt over the years is not to pass judgement until all the facts are their.
This is incredibly sad, my thoughts are with thoses involved.

regards

Beemer
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Follow Up By: Oldsquizzy (Kununurra) - Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 21:26

Tuesday, May 19, 2009 at 21:26
Well said
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Reply By: Flywest - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 14:29

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 14:29
Probably the darn bull bar - probably made from case hardened plasticine - or recyled sardine cans smelted in china! Rollseyes.

They said that a "part" of thebull bar broke away and hot the girl.

Yes we all know that kids shold be kept well away - but you know what kids are like, they wanna get into the thick of things and have a butchers hook so they can learn.

Sad for all concerned- whoever doies the investigation will get to the bottom of it - hopefully we can all learn from the results.

While I carry snatch straps for recovery - I prefer my herc alloy snig chain - never let me down in 30 years of moving everything from big rocks to big trees.

Non of our comments or knowlege will bring the little girl back sadly.

Condolences to the family.
AnswerID: 365826

Reply By: DIO - Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 18:26

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 at 18:26
Anyone with the money can buy a 4 wheel drive but that doesn't inlcude the right level of intelligence and brainpower to be able to operate it safetly. Perhaps it's time for the authorities to introduce compulsory training for potential buyers - before they take possession.
AnswerID: 365860

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