How come Toyotas sell so well?

Submitted: Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 11:25
ThreadID: 6981 Views:1933 Replies:17 FollowUps:27
This Thread has been Archived
I noted with some interest in the latest Overlander magazine that so far this year, the top four sellers in the 4WD market, and the leaders in many of the sub-categories, were Toyotas - LandCruiser, Hilux, Prado and RAV4 from memory. As the Professor would say - why is it so???

For example, why do so many more people buy Cruisers instead of the Patrol? We know that the Nissan engines are good, the drivetrains are very good, they're live axle with part time 4WD, and they're quite a bit cheaper, so logic says that more people would buy them in preference to the Cruiser in the big wagon sector. But they don't. Is the poplulation brainwashed? Is it brand loyalty? Or is it that Toyota are an excellent product worth the extra money people pay for them?

There are lots of other fourbys on the market that do a good job too, but they are nearly always blown away in the sales race by Toyota. Are Toyota products that good, or is Toyota so much better at marketing and appealing to a greater portion of the market?
This is intended to be a neutral, open question........
Russell S
Prado RV6
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Member - Russell - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 11:26

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 11:26
sorry about the double take - computer had a server glitch and I thought it had failed the first time.....Russell S
Prado RV6
AnswerID: 29870

Reply By: Old Soldier - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 11:59

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 11:59
G'day Russell,

Good topic.

I think the name of the game is brilliant marketing. Toyota have created a mindset with the Australian public which is so successful that most Aussies now simply relate 4X4 to Toyota.

Very effective.

As great as they are, I personally I don't believe they are any better than their main rival the Patrol

BTW - I don't own either vehicle so this is virtually a neutral opinion

DennisN
AnswerID: 29871

Follow Up By: Goran - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 15:41

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 15:41
I went to CSR twice in 3 years and saw Nissans with the cracked chasiss each time. This is not an oppinion, it is a fact. Have a look at the bracing around the spring towers on Nissans.
0
FollowupID: 20938

Follow Up By: Member - Bill- Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 16:15

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 16:15
Goran, not arguing with you but cracking in this area is common in 80 series too. Most "buying used" guides will tell you to check here. Not sure about other models. Many people put heavy springs in Patrols and Cruisers, load up big and forget about GVM. This and shearing of wheel nuts results. By the way, has Tojo stuck with 5 stud on the series 2 100 or gone back to 6 like the new Prado?Regds

Bill
0
FollowupID: 20945

Follow Up By: Hughesy - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 19:20

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 19:20
Goran, I'm with you mate. I work in underground mines and the only 2 4X4 you see underground are patrols and cruisers and out of the 8 sites I've worked at 90% of the vehicles are cruisers because they are the only vehicle that can stand up to the punishment. The site I'm at now used to run a fleet of Patrols (some still getting around) but the also have an area full of U/S patrols virtually all with cracked/snapped chassis. The motors and gearboxes are fine but the chassis and diffs just rust out. Yes diffs with leaks because the rust has eaten them out to paper thin. Any underground light vehicle mechanic you speak to will always say the cruisers are better. Cruisers have their probs too but not in the critical areas. Yes its the absolute worst environment for them and nothing like the average joe will come accross but atleast it gives the most realistic comparison between the two. Could yabba on about the two all day but will save ya.
Cheers,
Hughesy
0
FollowupID: 20971

Reply By: Member - Al & Mrs Al (Vic) - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 12:09

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 12:09
Russell,

We bought the 80 Series..for a couple of reasons...they seem to hold their value fairly well, I needed a car that had plenty of strength for the amount towing I do, and finally I wanted a car that I could fit comfortably in...given my height of 6ft 6", I tried out a couple of Patrols but it was in the Toyota that I could feel reasonably comfortable in.

cheers

AlLaugh alot..life's too short not to....

AnswerID: 29874

Reply By: Member - Shawn - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 13:12

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 13:12
Russell, to be fairer it would need a break down of who actually buys the vehicles,
Defence contract is to Toyota, a big customer. I also believe it is due to very good marketing by Toyota as Landcruiser is viewed or thought of as a status symbol as indicated by few on this forum. It would be intersting to know the % of each vehicle type that actually tow vans or go off road. Just my views and is not a shot at Toyota
cheersShe just didn't quite make it home
AnswerID: 29881

Follow Up By: Member - Russell - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 13:38

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 13:38
Good point. I do know that Defence, apart from the aging Landrover fleet, almost exclusively buy Troopies and Standard Cruiser wagons. Along the same lines, a lot of government departments and police do too, although police seem to buy Nissan Patrols too. Would be interesting to see the numbers, but don't know how I'd get them. Doubt if Toyota would tell me!Russell S
Prado RV6
0
FollowupID: 20922

Follow Up By: andy - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:08

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:08
The question should be why do the defence dept. buy Toyotas? Answer is simple because they are the best in the most rugged and challenging conditions. When the defence are going to spend money on vehicles they test the crap out of them at places like Graytown. If the vehicles pass their requirements for strength and need, they then negotiate a price. They still have Land Rovers and use other vehicles too.
0
FollowupID: 20926

Follow Up By: Member - Shawn - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 15:12

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 15:12
Green fleet (L/Rovers, Mogs, Macks, etc) tested at P&E Greytown not white fleet, L/Cruisers were not tested, they were bought off the shelf, they meet certain specs and came in the cheapest supplier. RAAF had L/Cruisers first and when Army went to buy them the RSL kicked up such a stink Army was stuck with just L/Rovers for a couple more years before it all calmed down.
L/Cruisers are for admin moves only and the L/Rovers are still used for the off road, "rugged and challenging conditions". There is no loyalty from Govt Depts when it comes to moneyShe just didn't quite make it home
0
FollowupID: 20935

Reply By: simon - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 13:33

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 13:33
most of your Bondi coffee bean bandits buy toyota's because they are manly designed for road use and make better shopping trolleys and kid transport devices for this reason.
Nissans are still built like trucks so not as appealling i guess to your average Bondi bandits and Toorak tourers.
All depends on your end use i guess, remember 90% of 4wds dont make it off the tar.
AnswerID: 29882

Follow Up By: Member - Russell - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 13:43

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 13:43
Good point, and you do see a lot of 3 ton GXLs and above being piloted by 50 pound madwomen in various areas of suburbia, but I do think the above post has merit too. Defence and government departments/police use a lot of 4WD vehicles, and from what I can see, tend to buy nearly all Toyotas - (perhaps they went to tender and Toyota won with some sweet discounts). Some of these get real work.Russell S
Prado RV6
0
FollowupID: 20923

Follow Up By: andy - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:10

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:10
Discounts are almost non existant for govt. departments. There is a tax break for government. They buy them because they meet their needs for carrying gear, reliability and strength.
0
FollowupID: 20927

Reply By: Westy - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 13:42

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 13:42
Russell

Must be a late morning tea huh! As a GU driver, I can attest that the Nissans perform very well when up against the Toyotas. However there are some key points that position the Toyotas ahead of the Nissans.

Speaking specifically about the Landcrisuier, it has been well documented that they are finished with much greater quality. An obvious example is the steel guard finish under the wheel arches, compared to the Patrol which is partly a Fibro material.

An article pointed in this direction is written in the current 4x4 Magazine. It is an article reflecting on the GU Nissans over the past four years and the value they present to the entry level 4x4er. Several comparisons are drawn against the Landcrusier on finish and quality. It concludes that the Landcrusier is a better finished vehicle. You pay for what you get.

AnswerID: 29883

Follow Up By: Member - Russell - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 13:46

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 13:46
No argument about the performance from me. Good point on the finish - I think in either 4WD Monthly or Overlander this month one of the writers comments about nothing being bolted together like a Toyota (or similar) - comment related to build quality and finish as compared to others in the sample. Morning tea??? Who gets time for morning tea? I'm too busy reading and writing posts!! (and doing the odd bit of work. This is a sanity break...)Russell S
Prado RV6
0
FollowupID: 20924

Reply By: Member - Al & Mrs Al (Vic) - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 13:54

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 13:54
Hi Russell..

I used to work for the State Govt Dept that handled the Tender's for Motor Vehicles...and I can tell you that Toyota's always performed well..the bottom line is normally always price...I think I only saw one Nissan contract the time I was there [7 years] and that was for a station wagon!...

cheers

Lyn [Mrs. Al]Laugh alot..life's too short not to....

AnswerID: 29886

Follow Up By: Time - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:02

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:02
Agee. Back in the "good old days" when I was purchasing fleet 4wds, decisions were based on whole of life costs, i.e. purchase price, maintenance costs and resale, Toyota couldn't be beaten back then (early 90s). Guess it is probably the same now.

Cheers

Buggerlux
0
FollowupID: 20925

Follow Up By: Member - Al & Mrs Al (Vic) - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:11

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:11
Buggerlux

you've just got to drive past one of the Big Auction Yards and take a peek at what you see...stacks of Toyotas...they buy em up from the different depts. once the vehicle hits about 60,000kms...[at least used too...] our own 80 series is ex govt....it was bought with 58,000Kms on it!!

LynLaugh alot..life's too short not to....

0
FollowupID: 20928

Reply By: Member - Bob - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:06

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:06
Its an interesting question as to why one brand moves ahead in numbers. If there were a huge difference in quality and value then almost no-one would buy the inferior product. When it is a close run thing you look for other factors. I believe marketing has a lot do with it. Once a small market differential is established the "band wagon" effect takes over. Those with little knowledge see the marketing advantage of the market leader and follow suit just to be on the side of the majority. How do you establish that initial market advantage? I think its been mentioned above - advantageous contracts for big purchasers like Defence. The other group easily bought are the journalists. You would only have to pick up one of the 4WD mags to see how this is done. Lavish trips etc on the journalists and buy huge amounts of advertising. Pretty soon you have a compliant group with the ability to influence many others. I have no doubt that Toyota make a superior vehicle in the landcruiser. I seriously doubt whether other vehicles in their line up justify their market position cf Rav 4. Bob
AnswerID: 29887

Follow Up By: Member - Russell - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:16

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:16
Good points, well made. Particularly true of RAV4.Russell S
Prado RV6
0
FollowupID: 20929

Reply By: Spanky - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:22

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:22
Answer is simple. Toyotas are much better than nissans and land rovers. The other crappy brands dont even come into the equation. Why would anyone pay more than they could for the type of vehicle they want? Because they believe that they are getting a better product to suit their needs. Resale is better, parts availability worldwide is better (try getting a left axel seal for a Rodeo in Chile or Botswana). Toyota parts are available in most countries and regions world wide. Toyota quality of build is better (why would the defence dept buy anything but the best when they are sending troops into life threatening situations. Why would the UN use crappy brands when they are putting thousands of people into life threatening situations. These people dont buy the one that represents the best value. They test the crap out of them and buy what they see as the toughest and most suitable for their needs.

Oh What a feeling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AnswerID: 29889

Follow Up By: simon - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:36

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:36
um hate to point out the obvious but the defence force still buy landrovers!!!! and i wont even go there for the record the un use patrols
0
FollowupID: 20930

Follow Up By: Member - Russell - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:47

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:47
Here we go..... and I was trying so hard to be objective and unemotional too! Would you like to expand on 'crappy brands' and what's crappy about them so we can arc a few more people up? :-))Russell S
Prado RV6
0
FollowupID: 20931

Follow Up By: Member - Bob - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:48

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:48
The UN use a range of vehicles. On TV I have seen Nissans, Pajeros, Toyotas (LC not Prado), and I know they used Discoverys in E Timor. Other than some minor factual errors a very good contribution Spanky.Bob
0
FollowupID: 20932

Follow Up By: landie - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 15:02

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 15:02
Spanky...good to see you come around. The other day you were bagging Landies, today you seem to have endorsed them. The Australian Army, as well as many others, including the UN still use Landies today.

Hey you'll be buying one soon.

0
FollowupID: 20934

Follow Up By: Member - Shawn - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 16:24

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 16:24
\/\/.....Spanky,
Unobjective, one eyed and very ill informed.

"why would the defence dept buy anything but the best when they are sending troops into life threatening situations".

Defence buys cheap, not the best!!!! look at Collins Class subs, (cheap bits bolted together). Doesn't matter what vehicle Defence buys Toyota, ford, holden they make money on the sale of all these vehicles as they buy non taxed and sell at auction/book price at 60,00klms.

"Toyota parts are available in most countries and regions world wide".

Yep - agree they are mass produced for a world wide market.

"Why would the UN use crappy brands when they are putting thousands of people into life threatening situations".

They don't use "crappy brands' but again comes down to price or contract rotation etc and the UN uses Toyota/Nissan/Ford/Landys

"These people dont buy the one that represents the best value. They test the crap out of them and buy what they see as the toughest and most suitable for their needs".

Testing is done as a Govt requirement but it still all comes down to who is the cheapest or politics (US made etc). No testing is done on these 'off the shelf vehicles'. They buy what is available with backup support at the cheapest contracted price. Defence got caught in the 80/90s when they ordered dark green s/wagons and not to have cigarette lighters, paid big money for the accessory not to be included and colour was very poor on resale. Hence - off the shelf vehicles.
0
FollowupID: 20946

Follow Up By: Mad Dog Morgan (Vic) - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 19:36

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 19:36
>(try getting a left axel seal for a Rodeo in Chile or Botswana).

Not a problem. Probably easier than here in OzHooroo
0
FollowupID: 20975

Follow Up By: Nifty,, - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 19:57

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 19:57
The UN actually has many of its vehicles given to it by countires like Japan who up until recent times could not contribute military forces to commitments . They make up for this by providing medical supplies, equipment and the like.
The UN may ask for a type of vehicle but they don't have a lot of say in the brand they're given .
Also countries (like Japan) are not going to donate items not made made in their country, it's not good politics.
0
FollowupID: 20978

Reply By: Trucksters - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:23

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:23
Read it and weep Members Bill and Bob

Truckster and his trouser snake wont like this thread

Oh What a feeling my snakey
AnswerID: 29890

Follow Up By: Member - Bob - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:49

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 14:49
Que?Bob
0
FollowupID: 20933

Follow Up By: Member - Bill- Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 15:12

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 15:12
Trucksters=spanky=andy,

Member Bob in reply #8 basically says it all (kudos to him). In a marketing sense you need to maintain continuity in the market too, Nissan (4WD's) pulled out for a while (not good), Ford stopped making V8's for a while and look where HSV is vs Ford Performance vehicles etc etc. Brand loyalty is very important.

Politics enters the picture too, if I remember correctly, way back when Land Rover were still building here they threatened to pull out of OZ if defence awarded a new contract to somone else so they got it.

Also, anyone know how many Toyota dealerships in OZ vs Nissan, Rover etc..Regds

Bill
0
FollowupID: 20936

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 16:28

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 16:28
I wont give a bleep really.

A fool and his money are easily parted.

Toyotas were invented to keep wankers out of NIssans, simple logic.

What is it coming to when Trolls are even pathetic? This place has the worst trolls of the lot!
0
FollowupID: 20947

Reply By: Member - Bill- Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 15:23

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 15:23
Russell,

Good thread by the way.

Another factor in the mix is supply...When I was shopping around last time one of the biggest dealers here in Sydney told me I would have to wait a little while if I wanted a 100 Turbo Diesel as they had only been allocated a small number and had already taken deposits. They could be flexible on the price of the Petrol but not on the Turbo because supply was always limited, smart move Totota. I notice that late 80 series TD's go for big money second hand. I assume this is not just because they are an excellent vehicle (as I'm sure we would all agree) but also that they are hard to find.

Anyone known the sales breakdown of 100 Series GXL wagon vs Nissan ST wagon, private sales?Regds

Bill
AnswerID: 29893

Reply By: Member -BJ (Sydney) - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 15:55

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 15:55
I presume most of you have been on a big trip this year, Toyota might have the sales figures but out bush it's mainly Nissans i saw what about you.Regards Bob
Where to next
AnswerID: 29902

Follow Up By: Slammin - Friday, Sep 05, 2003 at 00:17

Friday, Sep 05, 2003 at 00:17
Live near Alice see lots of 4wd groups etc etc there are more 4.2 Nissans getting about but still is Toyota mainly, but this is also indicative of price.
0
FollowupID: 21215

Reply By: EXTREME1 - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 16:29

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 16:29
I've just returned from a 12,000klm trip from Brisbane to alice to broome to the kimberley and back to Brisbane via the simpson, I only saw Toyotas with the exception of a few patrols at the rental place in Ayres rock. I spoke to a few mechanics who told me that out there it is TOYOTA COUNTRY. Only recently has the local police changed to nissan because toyota can't guarantee the shape of the 78 series chasis, therefore the police don't want to be building new backs every couple of years.
AnswerID: 29909

Reply By: Member - Paul T- Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 16:53

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 16:53
Interesting thread people.

Speaking for myself, when I was out hunting for my 4x4 i drove a number of vehicles both on and (where I could) off road. Obviously I couldn't take them into serious places off road but at least I could get a feel for abilities drawbacks etc.

However prior to setting out on the purchasing exercise I identified what it was I would be using the vehicle for and what I wanted it to do.

As I (like the majority of others I suspect) will use the vehicle 90 - 95% of the time on the road, and long trips at that, the chosen vehicle must have good road manners and levels of safety.

Secondly as I intended to do as much camping as I could fit in on the remainder of the 5 - 10% the vehicel needed to be able to carry myself my wife and our gear so it needed space.

Thirdly I wanted the vehiclle to be able to perform in a challenging, but not extreme, offroad environment.I have no intentions of extreme off road travel.

Fourthly it must be relatively thrifty in the fuel area, and be within my budget limits (which is important for every buyer).

With the above in mind I drove the Patrol, the Pajero, the Landrover and the Cruiser all in TD.

Based on my needs the Cruiser 100 TD fiited the bill.

I have, since purchase, driven the vehicle in a number of different off road environments and it hasn't yet let me down, and as far as I can tell the other brands(Patrol, Paj etc etc.) of vehicle that were with us didn't let them down either.

Maybe I am behind the times but I buy a vehicle based on whether it fits my needs rather than a brand. If the Patrol, the Paj or the Landy had met my needs undoubtedly I would have purchased one.

IMHO the best vehicle is the one that best meets the needs and budget of the owner/user.

I tend to ignore the sales hype, and look for peoples experiences with a product, rather than brand bias.

Cheers
PT
AnswerID: 29913

Follow Up By: macca - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 17:37

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 17:37
And I say endeth the thread..It gets a little boring reading the Toyota /Nissan debate..Give it a break for gods sake.. Why in the hell cant we go a few weeks without this inane thread..To each his own.. PS Ive had Nissans, Toyota, Mitsubishi and Ive loved em all ..Lets get on with life fellas!!!!!!and gals too (solly)
0
FollowupID: 20957

Follow Up By: Slammin - Friday, Sep 05, 2003 at 00:20

Friday, Sep 05, 2003 at 00:20
Good point Macca, If you aren't interested turn it off.
0
FollowupID: 21216

Reply By: diamond (bendigo) - Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 18:59

Tuesday, Sep 02, 2003 at 18:59
gday russell.
here we go again i love a good nissan/yota debate.
i think it goes down a lot to marketing/finish/resale ect.
but out in the bush you definetly so more nissans on the track unless its a landcruiseer club.so must be something to that—~‘¬‘¥•s’B
AnswerID: 29921

Follow Up By: Tony - Wednesday, Sep 03, 2003 at 07:29

Wednesday, Sep 03, 2003 at 07:29
My choice came down to price, hence the GU, not because it's a better vehicle.
0
FollowupID: 21013

Follow Up By: Hughesy - Wednesday, Sep 03, 2003 at 09:02

Wednesday, Sep 03, 2003 at 09:02
In the end it all comes down to one important point - YOU CAN"T BUY A REPUTATION...YOU HAVE TO EARN IT!!! And Toyota has done that. No amount of money thrown at advertising can do it. I'm not saying Nissans are no good, but they just haven't built up a long standing reputation (ie back from the snowy river dev days).
Cheers,
Hughesy
0
FollowupID: 21021

Reply By: Member - Phil- Wednesday, Sep 03, 2003 at 18:06

Wednesday, Sep 03, 2003 at 18:06
Here is a new angle , I have 3 kids and do extensive travel , 3 months Kimberly , Gulf , Cape York. The Toyota 100 series has 3 proper seats in the rear , all with proper seat belts and headrests , the middle seat is formed & therefore comfortable. The Nissan however has the middle passanger sitting on a split with only a lap belt , something that we werent happy with for long distance travel. So therefore was an easy decision for us. May have seriously considered the Nissan if the seating was more "family friendly"
AnswerID: 30018

Reply By: Slammin - Friday, Sep 05, 2003 at 00:38

Friday, Sep 05, 2003 at 00:38
Good on you Russel you got a few points of interest raised there. To sum it up Nissan owners feel it is marketing and Toyota owners feel it is a much better car.
From my point of view the best point was the mining one.
I see heaps of 4wds, govt, business and private and the majority are Toyotas, the market I have always found most interesting is business and then govt, they all predominately buy Toyota. My best mate is in geo. exploration - hard core 4wding 2 weeks on 1 off and what is their preference Toyota tray back with splits, they could buy Hummers if they wanted them. Marketing hype?
BTW I guess it is interesting to note in comparison what is Nissans role in the sedan market place? What are the resales like? Sounds like the same story as in the 4wd sector.
AnswerID: 30169

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)