AVM Manual 4 x 4 Hubs - Be aware of the drawbacks
Submitted: Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 16:18
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Member - Tony & Julie (FNQ)
Have just had an issue with these hubs that deserves to be posted for a buyer beware issue.
I recieved my car back from a service the other day, I was told that they needed to adjust the front wheel bearings and had damaged one of the bolts when removing the Hub Cover, they had to drill it out. (What they did not tell me was that they did not replace it and damaged the gasket, but that is another story).
Thought I would check the other side when I found they had not replaced the bolt. When I tried to remove the bolts the same thing happened, I damaged the bolts Allen Key head. It seems because of the tapered head and the very small size of the bolt, that this may happen often. I had to drill this one out as well.
Then the problem - Try and get a service kit for these hubs. Our local supplier of AVM Hubs where I got them from says they are available but will take some time to get and they will cost around $80. (Give me a break). Bolts are not available on their own.
Basicly I would have to put this product into the cheap and nasty pile due to this experience. My advice is stay away from them not because I had a problem but because this is a definite design flaw that may catch you out when you are out and remote.
Cheers Tony
Reply By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 16:33
Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 16:33
Did you ever think of going to a wrecking yard ...
.
AnswerID:
371526
Follow Up By: Member - Tony & Julie (FNQ) - Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 17:40
Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 17:40
Doug :-) Thanks for that. A wrecking yard should not have to be contacted to get replacement bolts for a product sold by many outlets, would you not agree?
The post is about the product and where it is both weak in construction and follow up service.
Luckily I do have the ability to fix it :-)
Actually I might ditch them if I can get a set of original Rodeo Manual hubs from the wreckers, problem is they are hard to find. Cheers Tony
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: guzzi - Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 17:57
Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 17:57
Tony,
Have I got a deal for you.
From you avatar photo your Rodeo is an RA model?
I have a set of hubs to suit a pre mid 1995 TF series Rodeo to suit the 17 spline axles.
I have them listed here with photos;
http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=62330
They are missing a small bolt and I would recommend replacing all the small bolts with higher quality items as these bolts have similar qualities to the ones you're having problems with.
Email me at the address above this post if you're interested.
FollowupID:
638775
Follow Up By: Member - Tony & Julie (FNQ) - Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 18:17
Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 18:17
guzzi - Interested I am - I will look at the add. Cheers Tony
FollowupID:
638782
Follow Up By: Member - Tony & Julie (FNQ) - Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 18:20
Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 18:20
guzzi - Your email not there - mine is tonyb@activ8.net.au. Cheers
FollowupID:
638783
Follow Up By: guzzi - Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 20:37
Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 20:37
Tony,
for some reason
my home email wont send to your address.
If your still interested contact me at dhc4ever AT yahoo dot com dot au
Cheers
Pete
FollowupID:
638814
Reply By: Mikelb - Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 17:26
Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 17:26
Tony
This was an ongoing problem with a pajero that I had. I went to the local bolt
shop (In those days The Bolt Bloke) now Coventry fasteners, and bought some high tensile Unbrakos the same length. I was then able to screw those in tightly, the freewheel hubs still worked Ok, and I never had anymore trouble.
Mike
AnswerID:
371533
Follow Up By: Member - Tony & Julie (FNQ) - Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 17:43
Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 17:43
Thanks Mike - The outlet that sold them to me and could not give me some bolts unless I ordered the $80 service kit stated that others had brought HT Bolts and had them machined with the taper - Sounds expensive to me.
Obviously it is an issue and would you not think they would supply bolts as a matter of urgency and customer satisfaction? My two bobs worth anyway.
Cheers Tony
FollowupID:
638772
Reply By: guzzi - Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 17:46
Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 17:46
So you having a ham fisted and not very attentive mechanic is the hubs fault?
Go to a Bolt specialist and buy some quality high tensile bolts and replace the hardened cheese things that are breaking, factor in a couple of dollars each at most. Use a torque wrench to tension the new ones to the correct torque. Don't know what the correct torque should be?
Call your AVM supplier back and ask, but its not very high.
Buy some gasket paper and you can make your own gaskets cheaply.
Ask your mechanic why he didn't use a torque wrench and wait for an interesting answer.
Cheers
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Tony & Julie (FNQ) - Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 18:15
Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 18:15
guzzi - Why you jump to incorrect conclusions is anybody's guess! I was there when my very good mechanic installed the hubs with his tension wrench to the required settings. So there is that theory shot down in flames.
I assume it may be the tapered head over time jamming against the body of the unit, but hey do not let facts spoil your assumptions. :-)
I was very careful trying to remove the bolt, I have had many years of doing my own mechanical work and thus know some tricks. In the end that bolt would not budge until the hex head was damaged too much.
The supplier recognized the problem, so there is one and not necessarily attributed to bad mechanics. Cheers Tony
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: guzzi - Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 20:28
Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 20:28
OK,
Fair points.
I'll pull my head in and just blame small bolts of dubious quality.
Reinforces what happens when you "assume".
Cheers
FollowupID:
638811
Reply By: Member - Tezza Qld - Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 18:17
Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 18:17
Hi Tony
I would change where you service your vehicle. I have been running AMV hubs for a long time . Even replaced the original ones on my GU because one of the original nissan kept undoing. The small outside torque bolts just require a light tap with a punch before trying to undo them as do the inner hex bolts.
You should be able to replace any of these bolts from a proper bolt supply
shop allthough the outside ones that are originaly torques head will have a hex head instead. I bought some in
Brisbane some months back just to put into my spares box as you never know
Cheers
Teza
AnswerID:
371542
Follow Up By: Member - Tony & Julie (FNQ) - Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 18:22
Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 18:22
Ta for the heads up - I will change the mechanic to me :-) Cheers Tony
FollowupID:
638784
Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 19:54
Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 19:54
I've been running my AVMs for many years too....even swapped them off my last patrol onto the current one I own.
Whilst I've never had issues with the smaller size bolts, I must say that the larger ones have come loose a few times and i have had to keep an eye on them. But, then again, when I've installed them, it's only ever been by the "she'll be jake" method of torquing 'em up..... hahaha
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 19:03
Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 19:03
Interesting Tony
My GU auto hubs need replacing and I haven't had sucess getting a set in good working order and will have to consider AVM (unless someone reading this is about to trade in there Patrol and could do a mutually benefical swap).
I will look more carefully at them now , thanks
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 21:48
Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 21:48
Robin, What actually wears or happens to the original auto hubs to cause a problem?? Michael
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 08:00
Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 08:00
I am not really sure Michael , even my automotive engineer brother couldn't exactly say when we pulled one of mine apart.
It is clearly pressure caused by transmission wind up causing gear teeth to slip over their matching teeth though.
Mine have slowly got worse and on steep downhills on high traction dirt you here a clunk and car lurches forward 1/2 a wheel rotation that catches again.
Makes quite a noise if your not prepared for it.
Doesn't happen on bouncy dirt roads.
In pictures below of mine , 1st is two hubs , on the left one is still fully assembled and rest is other dissassembled.
2nd picture shows wear marks on gear teeth of sliding section that engages.
Image Could Not Be FoundImage Could Not Be Found
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - James Bruce G (VIC) - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 21:31
Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 21:31
Hi Robin
Do you use ATF in the transfer case or regular gear oil? I read somewhere that Nissan changed from 80-W90 gear oil to thinner ATF in the transfer at the time they introduced the auto hubs to prevent the oil drag in the transfer trying to rotate the front shaft and half engaging the hubs, causing some sort of wear. I have had 18 years perfect service from the old style manual hubs on my GQ but have finally bought an old GU and I am unsure about these auto hubs.
Bruce
FollowupID:
638996
Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Jun 25, 2009 at 08:16
Thursday, Jun 25, 2009 at 08:16
Hi Bruce
I use synthetic mobil gear oil in mine , same oil in diff and gearboxes to (I don't have lsd since fitting lockers).
This oil has a lot less drag and you can feel gearbox is smoother.
FollowupID:
639029
Reply By: Member - Matt & Julie (VIC) - Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 19:13
Tuesday, Jun 23, 2009 at 19:13
Tony
Thanks for the heads up
AnswerID:
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