Care? I don't think so.

Submitted: Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:48
ThreadID: 70108 Views:3067 Replies:10 FollowUps:20
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I'm having a lot of trouble finding a real person to fix up a damn parking fine.

My son has the hilux nowadays and in April had it parked near his excavator as he worked on the fire effected area in Traralgon south.

Meanwhile Care Parking Nazis have apparently put a parking fine on to some vehicle in Bendigo 350ks to the west.

I had a nice surprise yesterday to get a notice to tell me to pay up for the fine plus legal fees. The first I had heard of it.

I'm sending them a stat dec to say it wasn't possible to be our vehicle, but not sure whether to pay the fine and ask for the money back or risk the court appearance.......

Recorded messages and now a 'girl' who says to put in writing.....

There was a report in the Hun yesterday about a similar situation.



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Reply By: Member - joc45 (WA) - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:10

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:10
Yeh, I had a speeding fine, supposedly zapped by a camera on a road about 30km south of where I live. I was certain it wasn't me, but a phone call the the relevant section got me nowhere. "You can come and view the evidence if you want" was what I was told. So I make a special trip into the city to look at the "evidence". Before I could even get to see the photo, the cop said "sorry mate, we read the number plate wrong". Thanks for nothing! A needless trip.
Similarly, I once had a threatening letter from a debt-collection agency to pay unpaid council rates on a block of land I never owned. A phone call and a visit to the council fixed that one, but I should have just gone to court, then let the debt collector get lumbered with the court costs.
But I confess that once I did get a parking ticket for parking my motor bike in a no standing zone (my stupid fault) and they recorded the wrong number plate. Suffice to say, that one went in the bin. Guess some other poor bugger would have been arguing, like you, that they were nowhere near the place as the parking nazis were beating a confession out of him!!
AnswerID: 371633

Reply By: Mal58 - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:16

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:16
Hi Royce,
Same thing happened to my wife several years ago.

The saving factor was that the description of the car on the parking ticket did not match my wife's car.

I rang the people (council) who issued the fine, but they would not take my word over the phone, even though they have access to the Registration database and could look up the vehicle type etc.

So I sent a polite note to the people who issued the infringement along with a copy of the registration certificate and asked that they cancel the parking ticket because they had got it wrong.

A couple of weeks later, I received a letter to say that the infringement had been canceled.

That's about all you can do.
AnswerID: 371634

Follow Up By: Mal58 - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:13

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:13
PS : I should add, we never paid the fine.

If you pay they will think the matter settled.
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Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 13:07

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 13:07
Aha! Just had an email back from them. They claim that it is a coupe..... but of course it's a twin-cab ute.... looks like a stat dec will cover things.
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Follow Up By: Mal58 - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 14:09

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 14:09
Hi Royce,
Good news, a stat dec along with a notarized copy of the rego certificate showing that the vehicle is twin cab ute and a polite letter saying that you believe a mistake has been made and your home and hosed.

Cheers,
Mal
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Follow Up By: psproule - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 18:02

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 18:02
Why not add an invoice to the return letter invoicing for your time spent on the matter?

Pat
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Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 18:37

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 18:37
I think I might invoice them. Two hours of my valuable time... highly stressful time.... I think maybe around $80 would be fair. [Okay... I'd value my time at $200/hour but don't want to be greedy].

I'll do it as soon as they cancel the fine!
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Follow Up By: tim_c - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 18:52

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 18:52
Send them a copy of your last rates notice or some other bill that they can also pay on your behalf...

It's starting to sound like one of these bogus companies that just sends out invoices at random hoping that at least a couple of people (or companies) will just pay them.
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Reply By: The Landy - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:47

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:47
Hi Royce

If you pay the fine they will consider the matter settled; you either contest it or pay it, but you can't do both...
AnswerID: 371638

Reply By: tim_c - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:52

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:52
Royce, sorry to hear of your dramas - as has been said, you should check all the details on the infringement notice (ie. rego number, vehicle description, colour etc.) and if any of this indicates it's not your vehicle you have good grounds to dispute the infringement. From what I've heard, parking cops always take a photo of your car when they book it nowadays (or is it just ACT?) so you should be able to have them send you a copy of the pic (might cost $10 or so) and this should show that it's not your car. You generally won't get anywhere on the phone - you do have to write a letter.

Generally, it's best to dispute it ASAP but you should pay the fine by the due date regardless. If the amount remains unpaid and you still haven't settled the dispute then they'll suspend your licence and/or impound the vehicle. If you are successful in your appeal then they'll refund the amount.
AnswerID: 371639

Follow Up By: Member - Redbakk (WA) - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:15

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 12:15
I agree with Tim....do not delay....they have more resources than you and they don't care.....be careful.

.
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Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 13:09

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 13:09
Further research has shown up the Care Carparking is a business and you are served with a breach of contract claim. It's quite different to a legal parking fine, but rather a commercial contract situation. Still looks like things are working out. They think it was a coupe instead of the twin cab ute, so a stat dec should clear things up.
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Follow Up By: Nargun51 - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 13:42

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 13:42
Do a Google search on the company...

Consumer Affairs have indicated their interest in the company

I'm just a nasty so and so. Interesting what would happen if you let this go through to the keeper and let them take you to court to sue for breach of contract.

Be interesting where they would stand with an incorrect car...

Consumer Affairs might have fun with too
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Follow Up By: tim_c - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 14:09

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 14:09
Royce, I hadn't realised it was a private company (thought it was a council issued ticket). Since you now know it wasn't your vehicle, you should treat it the same as you would another bogus invoice sent from a company: "return to sender, not at this address" or similar :)

I haven't put it to the test but I've heard that a "parking fine" from a private company doesn't really have much obligation, despite what they might threaten.

It raises an interesting question as to why VicRoads is giving out your private/personal information to a third party company?!
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Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 18:35

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 18:35
Shocking really when you think about it? Could Mc Donalds ask for my details if they take my rego?
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Follow Up By: tim_c - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 18:50

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 18:50
Exactly, that's why it raises all sorts of questions. It's not that hard for anyone to register a business name and get an ABN... It's even worse in this case because someone's given them your details even without a correct description of the vehicle - they could have just made up a rego number and asked for the info.

Since it's a private company, I take back my earlier advice about paying the amount by the due date - you'll never get a refund out of a private company, they'll just close the case (as was suggested). If it was a council one, they do recommend paying to avoid further hassles (ie. with your licence) and they generally do refund the amount if your appeal is successful.

Since you've got them to admit it was a coupe (it's not a 2-door-sports-coupe-ute is it?!) you should get more info out of them as well: make, model, colour, etc. will add strength to your argument. I don't see why a Stat Dec would be required - just a letter should be enough.
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Follow Up By: Wherehegon - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 22:25

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 22:25
"Generally, it's best to dispute it ASAP but you should pay the fine by the due date regardless. If the amount remains unpaid and you still haven't settled the dispute then they'll suspend your licence and/or impound the vehicle. If you are successful in your appeal then they'll refund the amount.""

In NSW anyway (not sure where your located)..but My wife got fined for supposidly not giving way to her right on a roundabout. Long story short we had proof etc she was on there first and I told the cop my wife and I would see him in court. Refused to pay the fine, filled out the back of the fine with all the details etc see you in court. Waited for a reply ?? Still waiting that was seven years ago, my wife renewed her rego two months after accident and has since renewed her licence twice no issues. If you just dont pay the fine and do nothng about it then they will can the license,rego etc. Maybe different in other states wether you dispute it or not must pay untill its sorted ?? We had to pay the excess to NRMA to get vehicle fixed as they go by what the cops say (fair enough) but was told they would refund the $450 back to us if proven not at fault. Any one know how long before some thing like this is disregarded or can we still expect a letter of some form in years to come ??? Regards Steve
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Follow Up By: tim_c - Thursday, Jun 25, 2009 at 12:39

Thursday, Jun 25, 2009 at 12:39
The cops might have just decided not to pursue it since the fine does not relate to any law. Contrary to popular belief/opinion, the law regarding round-abouts does not state "you must give way to the right". The law states "you must give way to vehicles already circulating in the round-about" so the cop has tried to fine your Mrs under a "law" that wasn't applicable in that situation - obviously they wouldn't have much of a case in court.

They should have sent you a letter either way, as you say: is something still out there going to cause problems later on? I'd think it's probably unlikely to come back after 7 years... but it would still be good to have it resolved (and get your excess back!). I can understand you not wanting to follow it up just in case you "remind them" about it. :)

Interestingly, when I had a collision, the other person's insurance company sent me a letter demanding payment even though I was obviously not at fault - they argued I had "failed to avoid a collision" (never mind that their client had just pulled out in front of me from a side road and then stopped blocking my path). I referred the matter to my insurance company (NRMA) and they recommended I not pay the excess since I could name the other driver who I argued was at fault (NRMA have the policy "if you can name the driver at fault, you won't pay any excess"). NRMA asked me for a statement of what happened and then declared me obviously 'not at fault' and refused payment to the other insurer. As far as I know, they never even looked at the Police report. I'd recommend following it up with NRMA and tell them the other driver was at fault and therefore you shouldn't be liable for any excess.
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Reply By: Member - Tony V (NSW) - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 13:35

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 13:35
Royce,

As you are 100% certain that it was not your vehicle and that you can verify that the vehicle was parked at a certain location for a period of time, tell them why you dispute the fine and that you wish to go to court.

Although I am in NSW, and things are slightly different here 80% of the time they will drop the Fine, as they do not want the Grey Ghost in court all day, missing out on revenue. I doubt that it will get to court, although they may try and bluff you.

If it gets to court, tell the Magistrate that your son was helping in the fire affected area at the time the offence occurred and who he was working for. You will get compensation for your day, No you don't need a solicitor, the Magistrate will make allowances for you and assist.

Always remember that the onus of proof is their not yours, once you tell them your wish to go to court, they should provide you with their proof that it was your vehicle.

If not just pay the fine, which is the methodology they use, expecting that most people will pay up and not take it to court, same with speeding fines and other minor infringements.


Off my soapbox and time for a coffee... Good luck.
AnswerID: 371650

Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 13:47

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 13:47
Good news. They claim it was a coupe. It's hilux ute! So I should get out of it with a stat dec.

This is actually not a 'grey ghost' situation. Not a council fine. It's a private company that runs the carparks. They are a business and this is a business charge... They then send it on to their debt-collection lawyers who screw another 'legal cost' charge from you.

I very nearly paid without checking.. but my son has the vehicle now, and I got onto him... only to find that he had never driven to Bendigo in his life!!!!
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Reply By: Bob of KAOS - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 18:32

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 18:32
I had a similar experience in Canberra a few years ago. The parking Nazis got me for being a couple of minutes too long in a spot and put a ticket on my windscreen.

I was pleasantly surprised to see that they had written my Number Plate incorrectly.

What does an honest law abiding citizen do in such a situation?

I thought long and hard, then wrote 'Poke this in your Bottom' on it and posted it to the receiver of public revenues.

I am guessing that some innocent will have been harassed, just as your son was, by the greedy parasites that we call our governments.
AnswerID: 371685

Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 18:34

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 18:34
Hmmm ... did you spell 'bottom' with two Ts? ....or perhaps in a different way?
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Follow Up By: Bob of KAOS - Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 18:42

Wednesday, Jun 24, 2009 at 18:42
Royce

I thought their was no need to cause unnecessary offence, hence the use of 'bottom' and not RRRs
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Reply By: Ray - Thursday, Jun 25, 2009 at 08:50

Thursday, Jun 25, 2009 at 08:50
There is a case here in W.A. where some junior public servent gave Wilson Parking a list of all the vehicles from the transport authority. They was a bit of an uproar in state paliament over this and Wilson parking was asked to return the list but they refused to do so. They now send "infrindgment" notices out.
I was alos to understand that private parking companies cannot issue infrindgment notices but have to take civil action to recover debts. They also charge Acrod holders to park.
AnswerID: 371748

Follow Up By: bgreeni - Thursday, Jun 25, 2009 at 13:29

Thursday, Jun 25, 2009 at 13:29
They will also clamp your car if parked on one of their properties and you have unpaid fines against the vehicle.

I however have had them waive a "Fine". I parked every day in their car park near work. One day I put the ticket face down on the dash and coped a fine. Wrote a letter saying I had paid with a copy of the ticket attached and they waived the fine.
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FollowupID: 639075

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Jun 25, 2009 at 14:39

Thursday, Jun 25, 2009 at 14:39
Sadly Royce, the $ is more important to them than facts.

I got one 2yrs ago.. The street was empty apart from my car, which I supplied them photos of 3 days in a row (there were 4 cars in the street once and 5 in it another day). So, it wasnt a fact of getting people to move along.

My problem was I was still over the legal limit to drive from a mates (I've known 40odd yrs) farewell party.

They couldnt have given a shi+, and said take it to court... knowing full well most people cant take time off work to do this.

As I said the $ is more important.

PS: What is the point with most of the 15min - 30min zones around nearly ALL shoppin centers? By the time you walk into the shops find the shop your lookin for which is now a 40min walk after you drive around for 2hrs finding a spot, your guaranteed a fine.


PPS: still got the troopy?
AnswerID: 371796

Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Thursday, Jun 25, 2009 at 15:50

Thursday, Jun 25, 2009 at 15:50
Sadly the SupaTrupa is gone.
I must have had a brain snapping bout of depression. The motor died and I decided that she was just too unreliable. Most of the recent years saw her off the road for two or three months having major repairs.

I sold it and replaced with a Transit Van.... but miss it greatly.

I just toured up north 10, 000ks.... way easier and more economic in the Transit... but there were all those little tracks that I might have gone down if I had the Toyota.....

Cheers Royce
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FollowupID: 639094

Reply By: get outmore - Thursday, Jun 25, 2009 at 15:01

Thursday, Jun 25, 2009 at 15:01
years ago before sunday trading in SA I went to a final at footy park.

back then for big games they would open the nearby shopping cenre carpark and charge to park there.

No worries but as i cruised around it became clear even this park was full
- except the disabled bays for the shopping centre (closed)
so i parked there and came back and i and the others parked there had a ticket

I got legal advice from the RAA. they could find no law negating the disabled bay but suggested i write a letter and if the fine still stood they might be interested in following up legally as it was a unique situation

i wrote to the council explaining as far as i was concerned the carpark was a football park carpark for the day and the disabled bays for football park were near the entrance not where i was 1km away

they waived the fine
AnswerID: 371800

Reply By: tim_c - Tuesday, Jul 07, 2009 at 17:23

Tuesday, Jul 07, 2009 at 17:23
Hi Royce, how did you get on with this - was it a happy ending?
AnswerID: 373478

Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Tuesday, Jul 07, 2009 at 18:23

Tuesday, Jul 07, 2009 at 18:23
good evening Tim....

So far so good. A stat Dec. sent to state that the car wasn't there at the time and doesn't match the description.

My next action will be to sent them an invoice for my time. :-]]
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