Saturday, Jun 27, 2009 at 15:18
The question of framing materials is best answered by those who are involved in stripping/repairing vans. The rest of us only ever see the cladding and are not really equipped to judge.
Barry Davidson runs what I understand to be Australia's biggest caravan repair operation in Caboolture and had this to say on the topic, in answer to a claim that timber frames were old-fashioned and prone to rot:
Quote:
I acknowledge that there is a place in the market for both types of vans but some clarification is needed.
Many might have the impression that wooden framed vans are old fashioned and not relevant in this day and age. Nothing could be further from the truth.
PROVIDING the manufacturer is prepared to properly manufacture the frame, use acceptable materials, adhesives and fixings and, most importantly, properly seal the unit, a wooden frame can have many advantages over an aluminium frame for the following reasons.
Timber will flex with the dynamic motion of the van. Aluminium won't.
Timber will also lend itself to far easier repair after an impact.
Timber framing is far more suitable for serious
off road caravans because of its ability to absorb road vibrations and torsional distortion.
Many Aluminium frames suffer seriously from stress fracturing after a given period of operation, particularly welded alloy frames and particularly when used in a heavy duty environment. It is rare for us to strip a welded alloy frame van and not see significant cracks around many of the welds.
The skin can be glued to the frame of a wooden framed van with some degree of certainty that it will remain stuck. Alloy frames have to be riveted in place, they move at the joints, and it is far more difficult, without the correct preparation, to have the skin remain adhered correctly.
The main problems with timber framed vans become evident when the van is incorrectly sealed and the unit leaks. Wood rot then becomes rampant and expensive repairs become necessary. I got over that problem with my Phoenix vans by using cca treated timber for the frames and I have never seen one of my vans with frame rot.
(...end of quote)
As to the choice of off-road vans and their abilities/weights, the acknowledged main players are Phoenix, Trakmaster and Bushtracker, all of whom have been in the offroad van business for a number of years. More recently, Kedron has joined them and there are many other alternatives with varying strengths and weaknesses. The first two build with timber frames and the latter two with aluminium.
Weight comes down to personal choice, given that all are built to order. If you want a serious off-road van and are prepared for some compromises, all can build a basic van with single axle and whatever
suspension you choose. The extra strength will mean they will all be a bit heavier than the average road-going van, but they need not be monsters.
But most owners opt for tandem axles and all the extras, including entertainment systems, full solar systems, generators, built-in bbqs, big compressor fridges, air conditioners, even washing machines and automated roof-top satellite dishes. Prices almost double along the way, weight heads
well north of 3 tonne and LandCruisers/Patrols struggle. A cutaway tail on a 24-foot van is of marginal benefit. But such vans are the personal choice of owners who are looking for comfortable self-sufficiency in remote locations.
In return, owners get a pretty comfortable independent lifestyle and reliable (but not bulletproof) travel on unmade roads and tracks. Of course they cost more, but they generally return more on resale. The real cost is only the difference.
Take what you read (including this, LOL) with a pinch of salt. I believe that the highly-informative website mentioned earlier in this thread was begun by the manufacturer after running foul of its own owners' group. If everything written was to be believed, there would be no competitors. Indeed, its originator has happily rumoured the demise of his rivals from time to time and contrary
views get short shrift on the site.
Take with a pinch of salt, also, manufacturer-sponsored tales of derring-do. The experience of expeditions by factory-supported teams with vans built for a specific journey do not necessarily reflect the reality for a private adventurer. All vans can be broken and, particularly, few accessories and add-on equipment are built to withstand rough travel.
Good luck with your choices.
Michael
AnswerID:
372089
Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Monday, Jun 29, 2009 at 15:13
Monday, Jun 29, 2009 at 15:13
Michael, you have made a good and helpful post on this subject, but is worth pointing a couple of things out for the benefit of readers:
Barry Davidson is indeed a respected person in the caravan industry. I think you will find though, that he is the previous owner of Phoenix caravans. Phoenix uses timber frames in their vans. I am not challenging Barry's judgement or knowledge (far from it), but it could be claimed that he is simply continuing to justify a decision he made many years ago when building processes were somewhat different and aluminium frames in vans was very uncommon.
Yes, he has (in his view), good and long held beliefs on this. Similar experts with extensive experience in building good vans with aluminium frames hold just as strong a view and will give equally good reasons why aluminium is better.
As I mentioned in an above post, if the van is
well built with quality materials, in my view, the framing material is not as big a deal as some will claim. After all, the top end of the market is split 50/50 in terms of manufacturers preference and you don't hear stories on any of them falling apart due to poor frames. I suspect that in numbers of vans sold, over 50% of vans by the top 4 builders are in fact aluminium.
Point 2 I would raise is your statement 'the acknowledged main players are Phoenix, Trakmaster and Bushtracker, all of whom have been in the offroad van business for a number of years. More recently, Kedron has joined them'
Kedron has been building caravans for about 10 years. The factory was established in 1998, but it might have been 1999 before the first van hit the road, I'm not sure of that. Perhaps Kedron started 'more recently', than the others, but 10 years is still a lot of experience. The Kedron caravans business started in 1962 selling vans built by other companies, so there is a long history (I suspect much longer than the others you mention) in the caravan industry. By the way, Trakmaster started building vans in 1995, not a long time before Kedron, but I think you will find Kedron has built a lot more vans than Trakmaster, judging by the van number attached to each van coming out of the factory. I point this matter of timing out only because some could interpret your wording to suggest that Kedron is a 'Johnny come lately' to the industry.
All of the companies named build top quality vans. I have met many owners of all of them, and I'm yet to find one who regrets the choice they made.
Norm C
FollowupID:
639562
Follow Up By: Kiwi100 - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 00:48
Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 00:48
Hi Norm,
It's no secret that Barry owned Phoenix - it's included in his quote in my post, above.
The thread topic is off-road caravans, so my comments on company experience was related to their experience in that particular field.
I was also looking to provide a bit of balance to the common theme from off-road manufacturers that use aluminium, that timber frames are old-fashioned and rot. This, despite the fact that their vans usually feature fairly extensive use of timber.
While all manufacturers might claim good reasons for their choice of materials, Barry's business gets to pull them apart and the comment that he rarely strips a welded alloy frame without finding significant cracks around welds is telling.
Nonetheless, as you say, there are few owners of any vans in this end of the market who are unhappy with their choice.
Michael
FollowupID:
639798