Kevin 747's new Chinese ute's.

Submitted: Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 13:28
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Anybody rushing out to buy one of Kevie's Mandarin Mate's new Great Wall ute's??????????????


Don't want to put the kybosch on a new vehicle but I spent 2 years working on Chinese tractors. I would strongly advise anyone thinking of going any distance out of town to be well prepared for the possibility of not having a trouble free trip.
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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 13:50

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 13:50
Hi Wild Dog
Sound like the Russian Lada vehicles and their tractors as well.

Cheers

Stephen
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AnswerID: 372628

Reply By: Member - ross m (WA) - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 15:18

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 15:18
We'll see. The Chinese have been incorporating Japanese design work into their vehicles so maybe they have learnt something.

They have been making all the BMW 3 and 5 series vehicles for some time.
AnswerID: 372639

Follow Up By: Ranger75 - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 15:24

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 15:24
Yeah and these Chinese utes work exactly as they are designed.
Ever heard of the mass migration pogrom where they resettled millions of chinese in rural areas, when the ran out of buses they used these utes.
One way trips were all they needed.
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Follow Up By: Member - ross m (WA) - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 15:30

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 15:30
Tell us more.
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Reply By: Member - barry F (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 15:58

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 15:58
There was a time when exactly the same thing used to be said about anything made in Japan. LOL
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Follow Up By: wild dog - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 16:40

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 16:40
Yes they used to say that about Toyota in 1966.
I know because I started my apprenticeship with a Toyota dealership in June '66.

The Chinese product of today is a trillion light years behind the standard of Toyotas in the 60's.
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Follow Up By: ob - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 16:55

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 16:55
Yes, a trillion years behind in build and price. When the quality reaches the Japanese standard so will the price.

Cheers ob
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Reply By: Member - Rob S (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 18:02

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 18:02
Had a bit of spare time today and went and had a look at one, to see the build quality.
Looked like a copy of a Nissan Navara D22 only it didn't feel as tinny as a Nissan. The doors felt and closed very solid paint and finish very good.
I personaly wouldn't buy one just yet. But for $27k driveaway for a duel cab petrol
looked very good,had a mitsubishi 2.4 litre motor, alloy wheels, aircon ,abs
air bags ,pwr windows and mirrors,leather seats,imobiliser .On the the fly shift 4wd push buttons on the dash, no stubby stick.Diesel later in the year
The base model 2wd 20k driveaway.


Rob

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and that's when I thought I was wrong!

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AnswerID: 372657

Reply By: BenDiD - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 19:27

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 19:27
I wouldn't consider buying one for another 20 years.

The Japanese manufacturers didn't get the quality name they earned for some time.

The Chinese may have copied Japanese designs, but its another thing altogether to put something together properly and to tweak the manufacturing and production process so that the vehicle lives up to the design. I am about as likely to buy one of these as I am a Tata.

Good luck to anyone who does!!!

cheers

Ben
AnswerID: 372675

Follow Up By: bgreeni - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 19:58

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 19:58
I have not seen these vehicles so can't comment on them in particular. I however have worked with Chinese on a project and made a number of business trips there to see their design and manufacturing and would not discount anything just because it is Chinese. Sure they make some rubbish but they can also make some very good products and are learning all the time. There roads are chocked with local cars and I did not see a lot broken down any more than here.
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Follow Up By: BenDiD - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 22:20

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 22:20
bgreeni,

I have had my hardship stint in Beijing and likewise been involved in some infrastructure projects using Chinese made PAMs. I saw a lot of c<*p.

I didn't see many broken down cars in Beijing. The cars looked modern. But as I am sure you found out riding in them shows a low quality that beggars belief. I was nearly gassed by fumes every time I got in a cab.

Yes, there may be some quality equipment made in China, but I am yet to see it. Where my wallet is concerned I wouldn't buy anything Chinese thats made for the mass market, if I needed to rely on it. (I do buy plenty of cheap Chinese stuff, and when it fails I don't care, I just replace it)

I don't think I am being unfair to Chinese manufacturers. I just think there is a big difference between design and construction. Making a good design work requires experienced engineers who know how to put things together properly and constantly tweak processes. The Japanese are the last word in quality for my money, but it took them a long time to get there after rebuilding their manufacturing base following WW2. It also took technology transfers from the USA and an attitude transfer in the form of TQM.

Mate, I just re-read my reply the above it sort of comes across as "fighting words". Not having a go, just expanding on the basis of my opinion.

cheers

Ben





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Follow Up By: Blaze (Berri) - Thursday, Jul 02, 2009 at 00:30

Thursday, Jul 02, 2009 at 00:30
Hey Ben, Does that mean I have to also wait another 15years to by my VW, as the toureage has only been made for about 5 years so far.

Dam I wanted one to.

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Follow Up By: BenDiD - Thursday, Jul 02, 2009 at 00:48

Thursday, Jul 02, 2009 at 00:48
Go right ahead, I think VW has more than proved its manufacturing skills and reliability. The Chinese haven't. My comment isn't about the vehicle alone, but the manufacturer and Chinese industry generally.

Wherever the Toureg is manufactred (?) presumably its done under the watchful eye of VW's engineers and has the benefit of VW's long experience. My point is the technology and skills transfer needed for Great Wall motors to match Toyota or Nissan or VW or Audi has only just started. Designs are easily transfered but skills and a culture of quality and continuous improvement takes much longer. The Koreans have been building cars with designs licensed from Mitsubishi (eg Terracan is a Pajero) and Mercedes' engines (Sangyong Musso) for years, but I don't think those vehicles are on a par with the vehicle or component they replicate. I also suspect few people in this forum consider a Tata ute be on par with a Nissan ute!

Cheers

Ben
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Thursday, Jul 02, 2009 at 09:43

Thursday, Jul 02, 2009 at 09:43
I have a Terracan, and although I won't try and say its as good as a Prado, you'd be surprised how good they are put together..

As with a lot of manufacturers, the major stuff ( engine, driveline etc ) is not made by the company, but sourced elsewhere ( 3ltr Patrol engine is one ) so reliability of the major stuff is usually not a problem ( unless you own a 3ltr Patrol ?? ) its how the rest of the car is put together, and the Terracan has proved to be nearly up there with the Japs....and the Terracan is an "old" design....the newer stuff from Hyundai is very good..

Give the Chinese another couple of yrs ( I think they will learn pretty fast ).....but until then, they won't get any of my money !!
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Follow Up By: tim_c - Thursday, Jul 02, 2009 at 15:53

Thursday, Jul 02, 2009 at 15:53
Ben, I don't think they were fighting words... as you've said, it's one thing to have a good design, it's another thing to put it together well and one critical link in the chain is the quality of materials used. Eg. my impressions of Mitsubishi are that they are a very well designed/engineered vehicles, but they are a bit lacking on the quality of some of the materials - this is what I understand has led to some of their gearbox/transmission woes.

I remember when Hyundai first came to Oz (I was just a little lad!) and my Dad's Mum was looking for a small car. My Dad advised against Hyundai at least until it had established a reputation, then make a decision. It turned out to be good advice! I'd suggest the same caution here too! Having said that, Hyundai has improved in leaps and bounds and have responded well to the Oz consumers' demand for quality. But I still wouldn't buy one (because I'm a brand snob!)

Often the cheaper cars will be cheaper for reasons that aren't immediately obvious. Try working on them and you'll probably understand! Or, just look at the wiring under the dash - a cheaper car will just have everything dangling about, a better car will have sponge wrapped around all the connectors so they don't rattle against things, a good car will have the wiring securely mounted, and a very good car will have the wiring securely AND neatly mounted! VW's fit into the last category, but I still wouldn't buy one (even though my Dad always had VW and they were great).

VW (& most European cars) don't rate so well in reliability surveys (the Jap cars are usually rated the best, in general). Many of the European cars have so many 'smarts' in them that provide many great and wonderful functions, but only when they work. They work well in the design shop, even in the showroom, but often in the day to day they start to suffer. My director swore he'd never buy another BMW after he lost thousands in depreciation when the odometer 'added' 30,000km to the reading on a two hour drive one weekend (of course, he couldn't have it fixed because it's illegal to wind them back!). Another colleague had his VW crippled by a faulty door-open/closed sensor which was going to cost in excess of $500 to replace! (unfortunately the switch didn't just turn on the interior light - it was linked to a whole host of other features, including the immobiliser!). My brother had a colleague who had to call an after-hours tow truck to take his VW back to the workshop to replace the headlight globes (one had blown earlier and he hadn't got to fixing it, he was stranded when the second blew as they couldn't be changed 'by the side of the road'). I would have bought a VW once, but not now...
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Reply By: lancie49 - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 20:00

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 20:00
Haven't heard anything about these
What are they ?
Where are they ?
Has anyone done a road test or report as yet ?
Website ?

Hmmm, courious now............
AnswerID: 372680

Follow Up By: lancie49 - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 20:09

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 20:09
Ooops, found it
Great Wall Motors.

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/35214/great-wall-motors-launches-first-chinese-made-cars-into-australian-market/
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Reply By: Member - Rob S (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 20:11

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 20:11
Hers a link

http://www.greatwallmotors.com.au/
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and that's when I thought I was wrong!

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AnswerID: 372683

Reply By: Best Off Road - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 20:28

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 20:28
What's the connection between the PM and a Chinese vehicle?

I actually speak some German, but don't bag me for problems you may have with BMW.

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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 21:51

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 21:51
They just don't understand Jim
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Follow Up By: BenDiD - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 22:23

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 22:23
The connection (in the initial comment) is that Kevvie is hell bent on sucking up to China at the expense of an existing and substantial trade relationship with Japan.
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 23:40

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2009 at 23:40
LOL
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Reply By: Honky - Thursday, Jul 02, 2009 at 11:31

Thursday, Jul 02, 2009 at 11:31
Looking at the great wall motors site it looks like the cars are mostly put together by robots.

Lucky all the japanese, Australian, European cars are handmade.

Honky
AnswerID: 372748

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