Repair Or Replace Bullbar and dodgy repairers
Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 20:38
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4wd 4 Life
Hello People,
Have not been at this site for a number of years due to Work and financial commitments. (I was previously registered here as Granpa Joe)
I was wondering what your thoughts were on an Issue I am Having with a motor vehicle insurance company.
I have a nissan patrol fitted with a genuine nissan steel bar and the 2002 model patrol has srs airbag protection.
My precious patrol was hit by another vehicle for the first time in it's life the other day and had gone to the insurance company for repair.
I was told today upon enquiring that the panel
shop was repairing the bullbar and not replacing it which I think is a bit suspect when taking into consideration the structural damage it suffered.
Does anyone have any info or knowledge in regards to what should be done?
What do you guys think?
Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 20:59
Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 20:59
Gday,
Im not sure what your concerned about?
Youve sent your car in for repairs and it sounds like they are repairing it?
Cheers
AnswerID:
378565
Reply By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 21:12
Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 21:12
Will the repair people certify that the repaired bar is suitable for use in an air bag equipped vehicle ?
I would also be asking for the same (in writing) from your insurance company.
KK
AnswerID:
378570
Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 21:24
Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 21:24
Gday Kiwi,
A big problem these days is over certification.....If the bull bar is repaired and brought back to its original condition with no modifications, it will still be certified as it always was.
If you want them to give you some sort of letter of garuntee with it, Im sure they will ablige by haveing an engineer look at it, who will probably and ask the bloke who repaired it what he thinks.......and then charge you a small fortune.
Id wait till the repair was done and see if it was done properly first.
Sorry...had a bad day with engineers, Australian standards, worksafe and company policies.......Hahahaha
FollowupID:
645946
Follow Up By: 4wd 4 Life - Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 21:56
Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 21:56
Good point Kiwi,
The repairer dropped the car at steel fabrication
shop and said he had "had a few bars done there before"
I don't understand how this would be okay for a part of the vehicle that works in conjunction with a safety aspect of the vehicle.
I expressed your same thoughts to the insurers assessor and he decided on
the spot to go and see the damage himself and was surprised to find it hadn't even gone to the panel
shop but straight to a fabricator.
FollowupID:
645957
Follow Up By: 4wd 4 Life - Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 22:00
Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 22:00
Oh and Hairy,
I ain't paying a cent, that's what insurance is for. (my annual premium every year for bugger all in return)
FollowupID:
645961
Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 22:39
Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 22:39
Hi Hairy,
Some bars are not certified for use on air bag equipped vehicles. If you fit a non-certified bar then you are interfering with the manufacturers (certified) safety mechanisms. Bit like fitting spacers behind wheel rims - a big no no. The air bag MUST operate under certain conditions and fitting a bar MAY inter fear with that operation. If you strengthen the bar some way by adding welds, gussets or dbl plating will you compromise the operational parameters of the air bags. I don't know but it will not hurt to ask for someone who is qualified in that area to check it out. In my mind it's a bit like getting a steering alignment done after an accident, I would not accept any front end work with out some one indicating that all repairs and alignments were done to the standard and tolerances required by the manufacturers specs.
KK
FollowupID:
645967
Reply By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 21:20
Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 21:20
Not being a legal expert I can only offer the comment that somewhere in the fine print may be words to the effect "repair or replace at the insurers discretion". Having said that the bar would have to comply with the operation of the airbag sensors as before the accident. Maybe being a 2002 model the original Nissan bar is just not available any more.
Cheers Pop
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: 4wd 4 Life - Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 21:40
Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 21:40
Nissan Bar to suit is available same day from local nissan spares $1500.00 Retail, even cheaper Trade.
FollowupID:
645951
Reply By: 4wd 4 Life - Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 21:46
Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 21:46
I had a careful look at the support and mounting brackets on the bar and saw they were badly bent/ angled out of original shape, these brackets are part of the bar stringers, not bolt on type brackets and one side of the steel bar was actually bent.
Anyone been here before?
AnswerID:
378586
Reply By: Member - Ed. C. (QLD) - Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 23:58
Tuesday, Aug 11, 2009 at 23:58
Fairly regularly, on this and other forums, there is a (mass) debate about the suitability (or otherwise) of alloy vs steel bullbars....
Invariably, one of the main reasons put forward by the 'pro steel' side for their choice, is that the steel bar is more easily repaired if damaged..
In the case of the (steel) bullbar in question, the insurance company and the repairer have deemed it to be repairable (fancy that!), and have decided to do just that, repair rhe bullbar (presumably to original spec)..
So, unless your policy stipulates 'new for old', then it appears to me that your insurance company is meeting it's obligation..
Can't see a problem, meself.............
;-)
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AnswerID:
378600
Follow Up By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 06:36
Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 06:36
Hi Ed,
'IF' the bar was legal before the crash but is not after it has been repaired then the insurance company has not met it's obligations.
KK
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 08:19
Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 08:19
Who is to say that it won't be legal after the repair??
With my limited knowledge with Air Bag compliant bullbars, I would think that as long as the crush can attachment from the bar to the mounting points is either undamaged or replaced if damaged then there would be no issue with having the bar repaired.
Cheers Kev
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Follow Up By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 08:20
Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 08:20
Also he has not mentioned if the Air Bags deployed either.
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Follow Up By: 4wd 4 Life - Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:58
Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 10:58
The factory bar does not have a seperate crush can between the chassis and the bar, it is one peice with the bar hence my concern and no the airbags didn't deploy as the other vehicle absorbed the bulk of the impact(was written off)
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Reply By: downtools - Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 08:02
Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 08:02
4wd 4 Life,
Same thing happened to us a few months ago.
A large trailer with generator on board detached itself from a truck and rolled into our bullbar causing a 100mm long scratch/dint, very minor really.
I wasn't too worried about it till the truck drivers attitude peeved me off!
Comments like, what damage, a bit of bog and a spray can, it's only a nissan, I shouldn't have been so close to him?
So I asked - why arn't there any safety chains on the trailer, work cover would be really interested hey. Within a couple of days the nissan was booked in for a new ARB bar. Stuff em!!
Good luck with the repair.
Cheers Nifty
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: 4wd 4 Life - Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:10
Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:10
Well that's the way I am starting to lean on the subject, how can they say it's the same when the plate peices that hold it are all mangled.
Will it handle a 10 000 lb winch still?
After talking to a few people in the industry about insurer they have told me they are notorious for sending repairs to the cheapest repairer regardless of their reputation.
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Reply By: JR - Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 14:26
Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 14:26
Not sure regarding Air bag approval on bullbars.
I think this standard just says it wont impact on Air bag deployment, I believe they are now activated by decelleration sensors so not sure what a bull bar has to do with it. Some setups use sensors right up the front. Patrols are under the pax
seat.
Was told it had to do with crushing at the same rate as vehicle without bullbar.
Repair company surely has the right to repair a bullbar if they think it can be fixed OK. Insurance companies nearly always warrant repair so its no different to repairing or replacing a bent panel all down to cost, As bullbars get more expensive there will be more repaired rather than replaced.
JR
AnswerID:
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Reply By: nickb - Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 14:51
Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 14:51
Last year an insurance assessor who "wrote" my car off said that bullbars were deemed scrap as soon as they were damaged. He said if they get a slight bend/dent in it they replace it, never repair. Maybe that was just their policy?
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: 4wd 4 Life - Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 18:38
Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 18:38
Thanks Nick,
I knew someone that's been there before would surface, much appreciated.
FollowupID:
646050
Reply By: 4wd 4 Life - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 17:00
Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 17:00
After no progress on the repair of my vehicle for the last week,
Nissan Australia kindly replied to an E-mail I had sent the previous week in regards to repairing their Genuine steel "Frontal Protection Bar". They recommended replacing after suffering structural damage as repairing would not leave the bar in the same state as what it was in from the manufacturer and could not in any way guarantee the safety of the vehicles occupants in a crash as the srs airbag system may be affected by the compromised frontal protection bar.
I have forwarded Nissan Australia's response to the insurance company in question as they assured me that if Nissan confirmed this, the bar would be replaced immediately.
Shall post again after hearing from the insurer.
AnswerID:
379352