Damn That Exploroz Trader Section!

Submitted: Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 00:26
ThreadID: 71565 Views:12284 Replies:9 FollowUps:33
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Ever had a "good idea" that turns into a project bigger than Ben Hur?

It all started with Numba 1 sons spare wheel swing away wheel carrier, that he wasn't too happy with. The bearings were seized and worn and it "dropped" a couple inches when you opened it - meaning you had to either slam it to close it or LIFT it every time you wanted to close it.

That got tiring real quick.



He spotted a twin wheel carrier - then he decided he would sell the single wheel carrier and buy a new dual wheel carrier!.

Simple huh?

If only - next was a trip the 4wd show and inspect every manufacturers offerings - & we found we liked the gas struts - they are a nice touch - another seemed a little flimsy - yet another didn't have swing arm stops etc and so it went - he just couldn't really find exactly what he wanted.

The K & N was about the best we could find.
So off to K & N and had a look at their manufacturing etc and got a price.
Yow!

We removed the old single wheel carrier, rebuilt with new bearings etc & repainted it and sold it off via the Exploroz Trader / Quokka route.





Then things went kinda quiet for a while...the $780 he received for the old carrier wasn't going to cover the $3500 cost of a new twin wheel carrier by a long shot...so time to save up a bit more disposables was required.

Then he spotted an advert on Exploroz Trader, seemed too good to be true!

Yep - two wheel carriers R & L off a 100 series cruiser - that had been modified to suit a Navara ute & best of all they were located in WA so no shipping/freight costs.

So around we go and check out these two carriers!
$350 later, we arrive home with the two said carriers.
Turns out one of them had been modified to remove the wheel carrier and a square tray added to carry 2 jerry cans for extra fuel.

Now how were we going to mount these to a 80 series bumper - which is mostly made of tin plate aluminium and plastic?

Seems like we needed some steel C channel to make a decent rear bumper capable of carrying the twin wheel carriers!





Another $170 at the local steel shop and we have the C Channel from hell, 2.9 meters of 7mm thick C channel that obviously meant to be a lintel in a building or something!

Next problem?

Get that bumper off the vehicle so we can use it as a template to work out what angles and distances etc will be needed!



Turns out there's a whole lot of nothing inside those fancy plastic corners!

By using these plastic corners and the straight aluminium section, it turns out we can scribe a outline of the bumper onto the concrete floor of the workshop as a template for making our corners!



OK now came the interesting part! Numba 1 son wanted anything but sharp 90 - degree corners - 2 x compound 45 degree angles would soften the look a little of such heavy steel...

Simple enough for a carpenter like me - what could be easier than 2 x 45 degree angles?

Well - when you haven't got a protractor, and are using measurements - geometry and maths to get a couple 22.5 degree corners to cut - there's plenty of room for screw-ups... & I still don't know how I did it, but we achieved a 120 degree bend made from two 60 degree cuts, on our first attempt - go figure!

Much re - cutting later (The drop saw wouldn't cut half way thru the steel channels 150 mm wide section, meaning cutting from each side and reversing the angles twice for each cut necessary, and we needed to make 4 cuts for one corner) we did finally get our compound 90 degree - ish cuts to get a radius corner!



We lost at least a day with this particular screw-up and fix I guess - it was much harder than you imagine or I can describe.



While we finally had it we tack welded it with the arc welder to make sure we didn't screw it up any further.



Next was a quick "test fit" to see how we were looking after this 1st and troublesome corner.



Next we used the plastic corner of the original bumper to scribe & cut the flange of the C channel, to get a closer fit to the vehicle body at the side.



Now using my template from the first corner drawn on the concrete workshop floor and buying a sliding bevel from Bunning's to duplicate my final angles for the 2nd corner, it didn't take too long to get the second corner cut and tack weld that - then reverse the cutaway scribe section of the first return and use it to cut the second return to better fit the body on the other side.



After another quick test fit, to make sure we had got it right so far, we needed a couple hi lift jacking points cut into the bumper each side - like we'd seen on some of the more modern commercially available carrier bars.

\

Next came hours and hours of cutting and grinding to get all the original and modified steel mounting brackets off the 2 carriers, ready to fit them to our manufactured bumper bar!

If you knew how many grinding discs I went thru, how deep the pile of steel grindings and disc particles was in the workshop by the time I had them ready to mock up on the bar, no joke - more than $100 worth of grinding / cutting discs and I looked like a black ant when finished!



Left hand wheel carrier mocked up.



Right Hand Jerry Carrier also mocked up.

Now time for another quick test fit!





And of course a test with at least 1 spare wheel on it!



Cool - so far we are on track.

Because the vehicle already has a 90 liter fuel tank, & a 175 long ranger tank at the rear (and another 140 liters of LPG for the diesel gas) - the vehicle already gets about 3000km's between fill's

The second carrier RH arm with the jerry can holder - will be kept for carrying spare water on trips.

It's our intention to manufacture a mirror image of the LH wheel carrier for mounting to the RH side when it is desired to carry 2 spare wheels, or alternately we can buy a new arm from the original manufacturer for another $650 - looks like we will be making it!

What we have found at this point?....

The LH wheel needs to come at least 60mm to the left of where it now sits, in order to not impinge on the space in the middle that the RH spare Wheel will occupy when fitted.

We plan to do this by cutting the two wheel carrier pipes away from their square tube mounting bearing block, with a drop saw - remove 60 mm from each pipe, then re-weld them back into place.

The catches will have to be similarly relocated by 60 mm each to match the shortened carrier arms.

We will do this on both carriers to create room in the middle for larger diameter (33 inch) tires later.

Also - the side returns of the steel bumper need to be built up with some 2 x 1 inch angle iron on top to raise the height at the side to match the body panel moulding's and then roll these back into the main bumper with some half pipe pieces in much the same way that the plastic corners were originally moulded.

Also chequer plate will be required to cover the chassis rails etc where the original alloy step used to sit.

The original rubber mud flaps pieces will need to be cut out a little to suit the square shape of the ends of the steel returns compared to the more rounded shape of the original rubber bumper returns.

Lastly, there is room between the chassis rails and rear bumper where the original alloy step sits to build and drop in a 3/16ths steel plate box with chequer plate lid, to hold shackles and snig chain/ recovery gear etc.

Then it will be time to pull it all apart again - wire wheel and sand it all - ready for paint.

Add some LED lights to replace the original globe models, bolt on some rated recovery hooks...

That will probably see this "little" project out.

I think I might need a firewall on this computer that keeps me & numba 1 son out of the trader section before any more small projects pop up!

I'll keep taking pics of progress, and post up another thread with more details as we complete this project.

Many thanks to everyone who contributed with advice on this project via my earlier threads asking for help, also - many thanks to Exploroz Trader section for providing access to the carriers and finding a buyer for the old carrier.

In all honesty - after this project i can see the value in these manufactured wheel carriers that are already engineered and fitted for you.

Our should cost out at just under $1000 all told for materials - I've no idea how many man hours have gone into this other than to say I've lost count, and my hands have so much arthritis from cutting and grinding with a 4 inch Makita grinder that I'm having trouble holding a knife and fork to eat!

The companies who make, sell & fit these things, really earn their $ in my opinion.

Cheers!
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Reply By: Member - Captain (WA) - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 00:47

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 00:47
Hey great job and a great write-up. Well done. While saving some $$$ is nice, the satisfaction of doing it yourself and knowing its right is even better.

Cheers

Captain
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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 01:42

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 01:42
That post has gotta be a record for the number of pictures in a post ever.

What a write up, well done enjoyed the read.

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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 01:49

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 01:49
Would make a good Blog.. if only I new what that word meant..
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Follow Up By: Flywest - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 01:57

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 01:57
If I knew how to do a blog - I'd have done that and just linked to it.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Flywest - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 06:21

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 06:21
Apologies that I duplicated a couple of the photos in the first post - I can't edit the original post to alter the links.



That's a view of the rear side of the channel with jacking points etc...



Another of our first test fits on the first corner.

Embarrassing when you copy and paste the wrong photo links into the wrong place for the story!

Lets hope I do better with the next half of this saga!

Cheers
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Follow Up By: ExplorOz - David & Michelle - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:34

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:34
Flywest,

Great post and as mentioned it would make a good blog - you can edit and re-arrange images and text in blogs thus making it easier for you to write an updating story etc and keep it all in the one place. To do a blog simply goto the your blog page - to get there click on Blog in the menu and then in the box at the top click on the link that says New Blog Entry - the update system is basically the same as the forum. Once you submit the blog it will be linked in the forum header section as per the other blogs. Also when you open the blog you will have an Edit link appear at the end of your blog entry - click this to do additional edits or images down the track.

Have a go at the blogs even if just to load up a test blog - you can also delete your own blogs so give it a try add something and delete it if it is just a test.

Good luck with the Blogs system and also with this interesting project. I wanted dual carriers at one stage and decided that carrying tyres on the roof was a less expensive option. I do see the value in the units just could not justify it at the time. Well done and look forward to seeing the final result.

DM
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Follow Up By: ExplorOz - David & Michelle - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:45

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:45
Oh someone just pointed out that Blogs is a member thing - sorry I just went directly into how the blogs worked without checking your registration status - ignore me it was early on Monday morning and I am not very good on Monday mornings.
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Reply By: Member - Alex B - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 07:12

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 07:12
Great read & Well Done!
Cheers
Alex B
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Reply By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 07:31

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 07:31
Hi, nice write up.
Any idea how much extra weight you have added to the rear of the vehicle with the new bar ?

KK
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Follow Up By: Flywest - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 09:06

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 09:06
I calculate it as about 200 kilos, which on standard suspension would be a worry.

However, when we added the 175 liter long ranger tank, and the 140 odd liters LPG tank inthe rear between the wheel arches that was some 300 odd kilos of extra weight over the rear wheels (less the 50 kilos for the standard rear tank we removed) so about 250 kilos over normal.

We added new double acting shocks and a new springs for a two inch lift at the rear only!

IT seems we got more than the two inches we bargained on - closer to 3 or so...

Now with the extra fuel (250 kilos) and the new bar and carriers wheel setc at 200 kilos - we are about 450 kilos in the rear and STILL the back hasn't dropped down to anywhere near level.

Now tho - when I attach the boat that weighs some 3500 kilos the extra 5% down weight on the trailer tongue (175 kilos) just manages to level those springs out (with the load levelers).



So basically after the new springs upgrade - it takes about 625 kilos, to get her back to near level.

That extra 625 kilos carries/tows everything we want in the back and stops the springs from riding so hard - lowers the back to a position where it doesn't oversteer.

We had to remove the 3rd row seats (now for sale on Exploroz Trader) to get the LPG tank in! That reduced a lot of the normal GVM kilos - which helps balance out the now extra load with all the extra gizmos.

Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Flywest - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 09:26

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 09:26
You can see from these two pics what happens when you don't have the suspension upgrade and also what happens when the suspension is upgraded and there's no weight on it...

I.e. the two extremes.


Upgraded suspension and no weight in the long range tank, no rear carrier.


No upgraded suspension and no load levelers no long range tank or LPG tank.

Two extremes - too high and too low.

I figure with this bar abd carriers and the springs upgrade the use of levelers etc that she will sit pretty level.

We don't as a rule use the cruiser to tow the boat on the road these days, we use the F 250 instead, BUT the cruisers still capable - occasionally I'll use the cruiser to back her into the water from the local boat ramp rather than the F 250, but for long distance towing work the F truck gets the job.

Reason? the F 250 weighs more at 4.5 tonnes and sits the road better than the cruiser when big road rains go past etc.

The extra weight on the cruiser just seems to improve it for heavy work now the lifted springs are in.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 09:29

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 09:29
That's a great write-up of a great story Flywest; thanks very much.

I too was wondering about the weights involved with the whole cruiser? My Patrol is a hefty 3500kg, about 2300kg of which is on the back axle... (I've weighed the old girl + camper trailer , doing it one axle at a time etc).

There is a heck of a lot of fuel involved there and if that bar is 200kg (seems like that may be the upper estimate, hopefully... haha), then once you get the 2nd spare tyre mounted I reckon your rear-end is going to be up around what mine is.....

I've been worried about cracking my chassis {again} with 2 big 35" spares hanging off the back of the heavy steel canopy. So, just yesterday, I removed one of the spares and re-mounted it back on the Ultimate Camper (where it was supposed to have been).

I will look forward to seeing more additions to this story as it evolves. I really admire blokes who get in with the welder and "ava go".....

Cheers

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Flywest - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 09:56

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 09:56
Thanks Roachie - its more of a father son thing - than "having a go".

I sorta cut n grind stuff and work out the technical bits, then get numba one son to do all the welding etc.

I want him to be able to say when asked "where did you get that?" to say 'I made it', rather than "my dad made it for me".

It's part of teaching the lads (I have 2 aged 21 & 20) as much as i can, before they get too old and think they know it all.

They already start to teach me stuff I either didn't know or have damn well forgotten!

They are good lads (yeah - when they are asleep LOL!) .

I have been a pretty hard bat surd bringing them up but it doesn't seem to have done them any harm so far.





They don't mind getting "stuck in" when there's work to do.
But they have had plenty of fun along the way as well.

Numba One has a list long as my arm of things he wants to do to this old cruiser.

3 inch Mandrell bent exhaust
Safari Air to Air intercooler.
One day - rebuild a 1HD FTE and swap it out with the 1HD-T engine thats in it now.

He already has more things in it than I can list.

It's something that gets us together occasionally now that he's 21, left home and out in the workforce.

Keeps me off the streets and outta trouble on the internet! LOL

Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 07:42

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 07:42
Flywest
I got my K&N dual for $1600 (with LED's) new fitted at the factory in 2005, good project you had there anyhow, kept you out of mischief for a while.

.
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Follow Up By: Flywest - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 09:31

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 09:31
That's a steal.

5 years on and they want $3.5K but it is the best of the twin carriers we saw IMHO.

After all this work - we'd still maybe have been better off with the K&N

Projects not finished yet and I'm already sick of it.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:00

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:00
Yeh well it helps when my Pilot/Escort mate used to work for them so I got it at Cost price,


.
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Reply By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 08:47

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 08:47
Nice work FW, after pricing dual wheel carriers a while back I decided to keep humping the extra spare on the roof rack.

Off to have a poke around Midallia, or a local building site....hehehe.


Cheers.....Lionel.
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Follow Up By: Flywest - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 09:10

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 09:10
If you want measurements and angles etc, now would be a good time to get them off me - before I forget what they were, and rub out the template pencil marks on the workshop floor!.

Cheers

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Follow Up By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 18:40

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 18:40
Thanks mate, got an old Nissan.
Dimensions will be different but the concept is the same.

Cheers for that,
Lionel.
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Reply By: Member - Malcolm (Townsville) - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:21

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:21
Great project FlyWest

Enjoyed every bit of it. And not one *(%%(^$ anywhere ;-)

Hey David, How about a section just for projects. 4X4 and associated stuff like caravans, camper trailers, swinging solar panels, etc. I'm sure you get the drift.

Malcolm

Working on my next "project" - with photos. ;-)
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Follow Up By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:25

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:25
There is such a section, it is called Blogs LOL abeit you need to be a member to have access to create one.

Cheers Kev
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Follow Up By: Member - Malcolm (Townsville) - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:51

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:51
Sir Kev

Yes. If you can sort the "wheat from the chaff" then I suppose "blogs" would be the place to put it. BUT !! IMHO it would need a main heading of "Projects".

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Follow Up By: ExplorOz - David & Michelle - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:04

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:04
Projects is ok, but we already have tags for "Vehicle setup", as well as Vehicle Servicing, Vehicle Technical and also Hobbies/Interests...so plenty of existing tags to use. Happy to give extra thought to these names however. It's not too late, to change, add, delete these extra - sounds like an idea for a poll?
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Follow Up By: Member - Malcolm (Townsville) - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:51

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:51
Good idea for a poll David

IMHO Setup, servicing, or even technical does not really portray the same meaning as "projects" does.

e.g. myswag.org has a section titled "My Camper Trailer Build" ( and I spent a whole day recently reading the lot of them ;-) a wealth of knowledge - and specific to building a camper trailer).

Nowadays, with the amount of info available on a site, the problem really boils down the novice user being able to locate the type of info they are after without having to resort to too many drill-downs. Not an easy task for any DB Admin to setup.

Even this site - If you do a site search (top right of page) with the word "projects" you will see what I mean. The result is .....

Malcolm

(sorry to hijack thread)



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Follow Up By: ExplorOz - David & Michelle - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 12:05

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 12:05
Yes, we are hijacking this post a little but its relevant because blogs do enable someone story to stay alive longer than just left in the forum and are better for managing photos etc. I do see and agree with you re: the tags, but not sure "projects" is any more specific, what about "DIY projects".
Thanks, Michelle
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Follow Up By: Member - Malcolm (Townsville) - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 12:28

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 12:28
Michelle

I'll drink to that. hic!

Malcolm

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Follow Up By: ExplorOz - David & Michelle - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 13:21

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 13:21
DIY Project tag has now been added.
thanks for your feedback/suggestion. Too easy ... sometimes ;-)
Hope someone will use it?!
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Follow Up By: Flywest - Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 14:23

Monday, Aug 17, 2009 at 14:23
Hijack away at will ladies and gents - if it will help improve the site.

I guess i shopuld stop being a stick in the mud and just join up as a member - then I'd know about blogs.

Lets see whats left outta next weeks pay cheque after every man and his dog gets their paws on it.

Just one little lotto win would do it!.

Cheers
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Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 08:38

Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 08:38
Nice read and a great project.

To answer your question, I have to say yes. My son was at me to make him a go-kart (as they do at 6 yrs old) so I finally give in and you can see the results below.

Image Could Not Be Found

3 or 4 days later it ended up like this.

Image Could Not Be Found

I will fill in the middle bits with a blog in the new DIY Project section now it is up and running. It was a bigger than Ben Hur project for my first efforts on the welder, was great fun for both me and my son. Problem now is I have to push while he steers and has all the fun. Next step is a motor to help me LOL!!!

Once again, good project and great read. Well done for a great post.
Regards, Trevor.
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Follow Up By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 08:40

Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 08:40
That will look good in St George Trevor ;)


Cheers Kev
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 08:40

Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 08:40
PS: It has to be a Toyota just cause I have to push and pull the damn thing to make it go anywhere ROFLMAO!!!! Usual stuff for Toyotas.
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:53

Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:53
See how we go Kev, we may be going via Longreach and Winton before St Goerge and this would mean the Go-Kart would be a pain in the neck to take all the way up there and back?????? See how the budget looks and decide our route in a couple of weeks. If we are going straight to St George I may just ask Thomas if he would like to bring the Go-Kart with him as I am sure there would be plenty of legs to help push it around all day.....you'd help wouldn't ya mate? LOL!!

Cheers, Trevor.
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Follow Up By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:56

Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 10:56
I'll help only if the front bumper gets changed to a Nissan one LOL


Cheers Kev
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Follow Up By: On Patrol & TONI - Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:35

Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 11:35
Trev,
you could always tow it, just like you would if it were a tojo, Ha Ha Ha.

Jeeez mate that son of yours looks just like you, poor bas7ard!!!!!!!
See ya soon mate. Colin.
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Follow Up By: Flywest - Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 14:33

Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 14:33
Love the white wall tyre - that's a real touch of class!

"Flash as a rat with a gold tooth" as the saying goes!

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 15:12

Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 15:12
Colin, if you talk to me like that before we even meet I hate to think of the ribbing I am gunna cop once you really get comfortable in knowing me ;-)))))))

Flywest, My young fella's idea of the smoke stacks over each back tyre is the clincher for me. I thought this was a ball tearer of an idea for a 6 yr old. Any sort of father son bonding you can do with this sort of stuff is priceless and we should enjoy it whilst we can.

I will get working on the Blog later today with more photo's.

Cheers, Trevor.

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Follow Up By: On Patrol & TONI - Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 16:06

Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 16:06
It's all good fun Trevor, I only do it to people I like. But yeah, my tounge gets me into all sorts of trouble sometimes mate. We have been chatting here for a few years now, and your no slouch on occasions, when it comes to the sharp comments Trevor, looking forward to meeting you & just so many members we have come to know around this wonderful land we all call home.

Cheers Colin.

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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 16:17

Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 16:17
I hear on the grapevine that the toymota engineers have been issued a directive to head-hunt King Cane-toad as he has obviously got what it takes to design the 300 series blandcruiser. In fact I think they've just sacked 99% of their design team as they have already gone into "tooling-up" phase. hehehe

Roachie
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Reply By: On Patrol & TONI - Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 16:14

Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 16:14
Gday fly west
that's a smart bit of kit, that son of yours should be proud of that, it's a work of art.
Where can I order one for a Patrol & how much. Make mine for two spare wheels, and space for an HF antenna, can it be ready for mid September? LOL
Eagerly waiting, Colin.

PS sorry about the banter with Trevor, we have been so close to meeting up before but missed by a few minutes.
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Follow Up By: Flywest - Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 19:18

Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 19:18
[quote]and space for an HF antenna,[/quote]

You see - this whole thread just became really worthwhile, coz just that one throw away line / comment is so obvious, yet we hadn't thought about that at all - and sooner or later he will want one on the vehicle for remote trips. (We know from experience that sat phones can't be relied upon to work when you need them most).

I will try and work that idea into the project somehow - while I still have the welder hooked up!

As to making more of them?

Well - If there was any way I could make a living out of it I'd entertain the idea seeing I'm outta work now and have been almost 12 months.

In a past lifetime I was a pretty formidable wood worker too...











The one thing i have learned from all this working with my hands and making stuff- whether steel or wood - is this.

No matter how good I make it, no matter how good the design, or materials, there's just no way I can make it FAST ENOUGH these days to make aliving and pay the bills.

These days you need zillions invested into computer controlled machines that make stuff to within a thousandth of a mm accuracy in only minutes in order to be able to runa business that can compete.

All the old skills that we are losing aren't worth a tinkers toss in todays society.

Despite my abilities & experience (and they are many() I can't get a job today because I don;t have the right bit of paper and at 50 am too damn old (despite the fact I'm probably to set in my ways to be anyone's employee - I've been used to being the boss for too bloody long!

I put in for jobs and even if I get to interview - its with some kid who hasn't half my experience or knowlege, and they feel threatened, so i get told I'm over qualified, and passed over.

Put in for a job just this week, more than met all the desired essential selection criteria.

Won't get the job - because even if i was the only applicant - the kid advertising for help - couldn't afford me!

Funny what you see people wanting in the way of employees these days - they want a rocket scientist, with 2 lifetimes experience - who won't talk back etc etc.

Nothing wrong with that - except they want that person to work for them for janitors wages.

I am really beginning to wonder about our society and what future we have created for our kids - let alone ourselves.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 646846

Follow Up By: On Patrol & TONI - Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 21:36

Tuesday, Aug 18, 2009 at 21:36
jeez Flywest, you got a bit off thread mate.

Jokes aside, that's some nice woodwork there, have you thought about doing custom work for "one off" orders and/or advertising your work at trade shows and the like, there are people out there that appreciate quality custom made furniture, built in cupboards & entertainment units etc. that are out of the ordinary & not your average mass produced prefabricated shyte.

Keep trying, Colin.
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FollowupID: 646875

Follow Up By: Flywest - Wednesday, Aug 19, 2009 at 00:49

Wednesday, Aug 19, 2009 at 00:49
Did it for 20 years.
Made a lot of nice furniture for some "important people" too.

Sadly after sitting down and doing the math, it turned out, I was working for about 3 bucks an hour, give or take (and I owned all our land, factory and tools, machines = no bank interest payments)

A lot of what goes into the furniture during manufacture, such as pinned mortise and tenon hand fitted joints, or secret draw screw joints, can't be "seen" after the products finished!

Basically if your any good at it, the end user should be non the wiser because your so good, it can't be seen.

Sadly, there are a great number of shops importing foreign products cheaply and using local marketing terms to sell them for more than they are worth and this undermines the value of real hand made solid timber furniture.

Solid Timber was a classic case- retailers selling pine chipboard Tables with Jarrah veneer, and a solid timber edge strip as "solid timber" - while I am trying to market just what you suggest - REAL all Timber from one tree hand made furniture.

You can't compete with imported and mis - labeled cheaper products that use marketing terms that reflect upon your work - but mis represent theirs.

You also need the new technologies with computers etc for production speed.

After 20 years I decided i didn't want to risk my fingers every day, for 3 bucks an hour so sold up.

I was competing with guys who used biscuit jointers and expoxy resin to produce a joint that LOOKS from the outside like my hand fitted pinned tenon mortise joints & took me hours to make.

His joint would last maybe 7 to 10 years because it depended on the strength of the resin, while mine would be good for 100 - 200 years because it was engineered to have mechanical strength as well as the strength of the epoxy glue.

I wouldn't lower my standards to save time and make more $

I wanted my furniture to still be around in 100 or 200 years as the antiques of tomorrow.

Sadly despite belief to the contrary, people don't want to pay these days for that sort of quality - well not what it costs to produce that sort of real quality and others want to trade on the quality of that work by producing inferior look alikes and trading on your marlketing terminology!

Lastly - the supply of quality woods largely gone, and is being gobbled up by the likes of Gunns timbers nationally at a rate there's no future in REAL solid timber furniture.

Pity, coz It was something I enjoyed doing.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 646898

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