Swap & Go Gas bottles

From LPG Australia....

Are there different types of LPG?

YES. There are two different grades or blends of LPG and they are not interchangeable. One is for automotive use only (called autogas) and will contain butane and propane. The other is propane only, which is used for decanting into cylinders for caravans, barbecues, camping and household use.
For safety reasons autogas must not be used as a substitute for propane only applications like BBQs or household use.

So there !!!!!

DIO

If there are two different types then how come for many years everyone could top up their camping gas bottles at the garage from the decanting station that fed straight from that big white tank.

Further when traveling through NewZealand they have decanting stations in amongst the fuel bowsers that feed off the same line. The weigh your bottle first then fill it and weigh it again and then only charge you by weight how much they put in.

Same gas. I once bought a gas hot water system for my house which was on street gas. The hot water system was jetted for bottled gas. All the plumber did was change the high pressure jets to low pressure jets. Worked fine.

On the net there is a report of a guy who designed a compressor for home to compress his house gas and then recharge his car. HIGHLY ILLEGAL AND DANGEROURS. About as bad as distilling liquor. You will regularily see reports of people blowing the top of their house off when the home still blows up.

The gas essentially comes from the same hole in the ground and some wells you can use it straight from the hole if you could get it into your pressure tank.

My brother inlaw works in the oil fields and says at some wells they fill up their diesel cars straight from the well head - must be some sort of tap off.

David

A quick google search tells us that butane and propane are only marginally different but outweighed by how similar they are. Both are carbon and hydrogen atoms but butane has 4 carbon 10 hydrogen while propane has 3 carbon 8 hydrogen. Both are used for home heating and cooking and for use in cars interchangeably.

Me thinks that fuel companies like us to think they are different so they can charge us more.

David

DIO - The servos I have worked for only have one main gas tank, this tank decants to the Gas Bowser and to the Gas Refill Bottle

Thus I draw the conclusion it is the same gas :-)

Not the same price though.

Always thought I should get a dummy gas tank for the car and then decant back to the gas cylynder.

However & whatever Cooking gas prices are a big rip off, in my opinion. Cheers Tony

"So there !!!!!"

DIO,

Mate what is with the attitude.

Tony was just asking a simple question.

The comment you made prior to this was sufficient. Then you went along and added the extra bit.

I don't understand why you did this, and it was uncalled for.

Greg

"So There" ?????????
This bloke DIO just can't help himself....but then again.....Maybe he does LOL

Having worked in the industry I can say that the whole "ooer no its different and dangerous if you use the other one" is a complete crock. I don't know what the current state of play is with bulk gas rates and the % of blend, but it seems more like an energy company scam than anything.

The Kleenheat gas tanker that used to fill the bulk LPG tank at the BP station I worked at used to fill the BBQ gas decanter from the same hose, out of the same tanker.

Some LPG products are a mixture of butane and propane, yes, and is sometimes a by-product of refining crude oil, but the bulk of the LPG that is made available in Australia is from natural reservoirs and generally receives little blending for domestic use.

Chaps,

DIO has been on this site for ages.

He's a "hit and run" merchant. Much like a Guerilla war soldier. That is to say he lobs genades and runs for cover.

He never responds to any response of his inflammatory posts. He's a perpetual stirrer. Why he hasn't been banned is a mystery to me.

Jim.

Actually Dio is right, Auto gas is a mixture of Propane & Butane, Propane BBQ gas burns hotter than Butane which is what's in cigarette lighters. Some Garages use Auto gas to fill gas bottle's but if you get them filled at a Gas Depot you will get Propane. Some garages have a large Auto gas tank & a smaller Propane tank. Most of our gas here in NSW comes from over seas. I use to drive for one of the largest Gas carrying company's in Aust

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Nice truck there Dave

Gas aint gas.

Autogas = Propane/Butane mix

In most places in Australia, Auto gas is a blend of Propane and Butane. Because of the different “weights” of these gasses, they “boil” off at different temperatures. This makes no difference in an automotive situation as the gases are draw off the bottle in a liquid form, and “boiled” in a heat exchanger under the bonnet to a gaseous form to burn in the engine. In Northern Australia, far from refineries, Auto gas and Bottle gas usually are the same thing, Propane, as it is un economic to ship two different gasses by sea for the small quantities used of either one on its own.

LPG (Liquified Petroleum Gas) = Propane

In a bottled gas for home heating/cooking it is an entirely different kettle of fish. As the gas is drawn off the bottle In a gaseous form, the lighter of the two gasses (Butane) boils off first due to its lower boiling point, then the heavier gas (Propane) boils off after all the butane has gone. These two gasses need different jetting / controls as they have different calorific values, creating different heat for the amount of gas burnt.
Propane and Butane can be maintained in a liquid for by being stored under moderate pressure.
That is why home heating/cooking gas is supposed to be pure propane only.

Natural Gas = Methane

Natural gas is Methane, which is lighter again that either Butane or Propane, actually lighter that air, where as Butane and Propane are heavier than air. Methane needs different jetting and controls as its calorific value is different yet again.
Methane cannot be stored as a liquid under pressure, as the pressures required are so high, that it is uneconomic to do so. Pressure vessels become too heavy to move, and build. Methane however lends itself to storage as a liquid under refrigeration, and is stored as a cryogenic liquid at about -270 deg centigrade. This then can be stored in light weight containers, with adequate insulation, and maintains liquid form by slowing boiling off as it absorbs heat. (Blood big eskies)

It is true that all these gasses come from a hole in the ground, but are separated in large refrigerated gas chains to purify them for their intended uses. Also from this same hole in the ground are extracted Carbon DiOxide, Helium, Nitrogen, and various sulfur compound gasses. Propane and Butane also are derived from Light crude oil refraction and distillation and used to be an oil refinery waste produce many year ago.

So, Gasses anit Gasses.

LNG liquification temp = -161 Deg C.

No argument about the difference between Propane and Butane, but in many places these are interchanged without the consumer even realising. In WA Wesfarmers have a stranglehold on LPG, extracting this from the DomGas pipeline at their Kwinana plant. The SAME gas is then used to supply servos and to fill cylinders for domestic and commercial use.

The gas is sent all over WA in tankers and there are not different tankers for different end uses of the gas. If you could come up with a coupling to fill your gas bottle at the gas bowser of a servo, you'd save a fortune.

Cheers

Russ

Not arguing about slight differences in the gas, but have a mate who delivers for kleen heat and he fills bowser tanks and bottle gas refill tanks from the same tanker !!!
Other places have a bowser close enough to the LPG tank and just fill it from there bowser pump.

Pesty

Paul....spot on mate. I learnt and I always refill now, and go without, until I can refill. "That's why ya need a good gennie" My dollars, not theirs. LOL

Me again
How many litres per kilo ???
At that price I would think about 7-8
It is a rob & travellers pay (And me cooking Snags on the BBQ for tea)

Propane Specific Gravite = .510

D'oh, this evenings red wine is working....I meant to say that price was at Bunbury BFC store.

Cheers

BCF even :-)

To compare that to bowser prices for LPG, it costs me roughly $26-$27 to fill my gas tank in my car, which is 52 useable litres (generally only fit 47-48 litres in it)

Bunnings in Busselton is $27.40 for 8.5 Kg bottle 'swap an go'
The gas place accross the road was $33

I run out on Wednesday and had to refill

Maîneÿ . . .

Probably some of the price difference comes down to paying someone to fill the smaller gas bottle (& their workers' comp insurance etc.) while you would fill the LPG to the car by yourself.

Probably some of the price difference comes down to paying someone to fill the smaller gas bottle (& their workers' comp insurance etc.) while you would fill the LPG to the car by yourself.

Oops, I guess you heard me the first time... (not sure what happened there)

PS. Butane is used for cooking and so is LPG in Australia so where is the problem.

No profit unless you can hoodwink the punters I guess.

Iv never had any problems with car gas in my 9.5Kg cylinders for cooking etc. Been filling them for about 12Yrs from my vehicles LPG liquid line under the bonnet.

See also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane_ga