OT. Global warming

John

You’re not suggesting that politicians are having a lend of us are you? That can’t be right...

LOL

Regards

Kim

I think its right to have water restrictions because the population growth cannot sustain what we have. Recycle yes because the dumps cant sustain population growth. Use less power because the bills are too high. Don't use a mobile phone for too long because the damn thing gets too hot.
Global warming a load of dung.

All of which have happened before and in a supposed Pre Carbon increased world!!

It has happened before and will happen again, get used to it.

Lets face it, this planet's population growth just cannot be sustained. There WILL be a cull, it is Natures way!

But not this hyper fast!

I really can't believe that there are so many of us out there who really think we can get away with massive and exponential increases in emissions pollution over such a short timeframe without any impacts arising.

We are p'ing in the waterhole. And big big time.

It makes me wonder when they say it has been the hottest, wettest, dryest etc since 1930 or whatever, what part of global caused it back then?

John
Considering that vehicle emissions are said to one of the single largest 'Polluters" its good to see you will stop driving yours just to help the planet out.

insert .... warming

We badly need an edit function!

What vehicles caused it back then, there were only about 15 cars in Australia then!

Hi John (Vic).

There's nothing you nor I can do at an individual level that will make any difference whatever.

What we need really really need is an emissions trading scheme or a serious carbon tax which will operate on the macro economics of it all. I'd be more than happy to pay my share of those taxes.

Cheers.

Wake me up when China, India & the US do something, we are a fart in a thunderstorm by Global standards.

No point in continuing to engage. See you chaps on another post sometime.

Cheers.

Yes good idea, lets tax ourselves out of existence so that Rudd can be seen to be reducing our already less than 1 percent contribution to world wide carbon emissions.

Meanwhile our various industries move to overseas locations like China were they are not tied into massive revenue raising schemes.

They can't prove the carbon theory beyond all doubt and Rudd won't change his stance because he won the last election on a scare campaign that the average Australian really didn't understand.

Now the question is starting to be asked, how much will this really cost the average Aussie home, $1,100- is the current estimate (And rising) by industry, of course Rudd denies this figure.

Thats the issue isn't it, when the Pro lobby can't support the argument then they label the antagonists as sceptics and discontinue the debate.

I remember the world was going to run out of oil back in the 70's and here we are still driving our cars and they keep on finding more.
Hype and hysteria to make money, in this instance its the Extra Tax Scheme or Scam.

Australian Carbon Tax = Export of Australian jobs to countries without one!

The financial intermediaries (banks) that deal in carbon credits will be the ones that stand to profit from this carbon tax, and the government will have another tax tool to fund itself. The environment will be way down the pecking order in terms of something that will benefit if it benefits at all.

I was lectured recently by someone who is a 'stauch' supporter of taking action on global warming, and how we had to shut down our coal industry. I asked why they had two cars....the answer because they needed two! If global warming exists they will never fix it because it will always be someone else who is causing it....

On another note.....We will overpopulate ourselves out of existence long before 'global warming' does gets us.........and planet earth will take care of itself long after we have gone!


Geez...I'm going out to enjoy myself!

The Landy

The Murray River ceased to flow in 1939.....this to me, was when global warning started.....or was it black Friday 1939 when the bush fires raged in Victoria? Please everyone help me answer this question. We are on water restrictions....why are there numerous new housing estates being built? Where pray tell is the water coming from for these houses with a minimum of two bathrooms.....Here is my answer in 30 years (Thank God I'll be long gone) this country will be speaking Indonesian because their country is full, no more inhabital land they will take ours...simple because where else do they live? The chinese who are building anything & everything will ruin the economy because the prices they will sell imports for will be so cheap no one else will be able to compete & when they have the market under control our reliance for materials will depend on China. They can send our mining bust by closing factories & ceasing production for a few years so without China buying our resources we are basically broke until they graciously bail us out by buying up are stagnant resources & sell them back to us. Don't forget those favorite words we all learnt in school, "I love a sunburnt country a land of sweeping plains of rugged mountain ranges, of droughts & flooding rains. I love her far horizons, I love her jewelled seas, her beauty & her terror, the wide brown land for me. I wonder if Dorothy McKeller was thinking about the effects of global warming when she wrote that.

OREJAP, what isn't publicised is that China is also in a dire situation with regard to its water resources. In some areas they have dropped the water table by 63 metres since the 1970s due to overextraction. It will be interesting (and probably very distressing) to see how long their present economic boom will last given the further troubled times they are soon to face.

I am with you on this one...:-)


Cheers

We have to have a name for everything these days.

It's like there are no naughty children any more, they all have ADHD!

Thats makes a lot of sense to me.

Regards

Kim

I agree Flynnie,

Its taking up far to much of the News(gossip)papers. But then again news doesnt sell papers any more it has to be gossip, scandal or doom & gloom

Kim mate I disagree, The path of least resistance is more then one beer : ).

Cheers Wilko

Wilco

I confess. It may have been two beers.

After that we started to talk about the other 55% of the human race.

Suddenly Global Warming didn’t matter much after that!

Regards

Kim

Wilco, you left 'celebrity' off your list. Nothing sells like celebrity!

There's more warming gasses eminating from the BS that's coming out of the doom and gloomers mouths than anywhere else methinks.
If they think the planet's getting warmer come and live in Tassie. Been colder and wetter here than I can remember in the last 40 + years. And it's raining now....again! Summer starts on Tuesday expected temp is 14 with more rain!

I live 50 meters above sealevel looking into a valley with a beach at one end. If the global warmologists are correct,in about 5000 years I'll have a waterfront property. Better get the approval for the jetty sorted out quick smart.

My theory on rising sea levels is caused by the sudden stoppage of harvesting whales and all these marine parks they are creating.
Try half filling a bath with water then one person gets in and the water level rises. Put three or four people in and it overflows. Quite simple really.
I am applying to the Federal Gov. for a $3000000.00 grant to try and prove it beyond doudt.


PS What a load of Cods wallup this Global Warming theory has turned out to be.
Regards nDuke

I agree - it's good to know there are still a few 'sceptics' out there (bearing in mind that sceptic means some who asks questions - what's the other alternative: gullible?!).

I've wondered for a while how you could accurately measure sea level anyway when it's always moving up and down with waves and tides etc. And what do you measure it against when the science of plate tectonics tells us that all the continents are constantly moving X cm each year - it makes you wonder when they report a "sea level rise of 1.8mm per year" whether it's a sea level rise or a continental lowering (must be all the heavy 4WDs in the country?!).

i always thought the tides where controlled by the moon and where the planet was in respect to the sun in the solar system. maybe it gets warmer on some parts of the planet because of solar flares or maybe the earth has moved closer to the sun.just maybe the cycle of the earth has moved a fly bleep closer to the sun this time round. and for weather the earth has the same water level doesn't leak into outer space and moves around the earth its called photosynthesis. whatever when pollies get hold of it another branch of the public service will blossom and that where our taxes ,sorry carbon tax will disappear, buy i dont understand why mutinationals make billions out of resources and joe blogs again pays Dags

"When scientists talk about sea levels rising by a centimetre, they dont mean it will be an even centimetre all over."
What?! Since when did water stop finding it's own level?! Water can't pile up higher in one region because liquids always find their own level - at least, that's what they taught us in school/college.

If you're talking about sea 'rising' by different amounts in different parts of the world, I can't help but wonder if continental movement might be contributing to the measurements?

Timbo ,Im referring to tidal surges. Sometimes when the tide is moving up a river,the ocean tide has begun to recede.
This is because of the momentum the water picks up as it gets squeezed into a narrowing river/estuary.
From memory the tide in the Swan river is about an hour behind the ocean.
Wind can also blow water up river. Ive seen this happen in the Swan river on blowy days.

Water does find its own level, but only when there no forces moving it around

Ok, THAT makes a bit more sense.

Steve, even though I personally agree with you, I feel that I must point that there is an alternative argument from those who strictly believe in the word of God. That is, the universe was created from scratch about 7000 years ago and that we are all descendants of Adam. There is no room in their scenario for dinosaurs.
If people can't agree on a subject as blatant as that then we all have no hope of agreeing on anything and all arguments are just hot air, even hotter air lately some would have us believe.
So lets all stick our snouts back in the trough and keep feeding like there is no tomorrow....party on dudes

Mike

Oh well I guess that dinosaur fossils are all fakes then??

Cheers
Dave

According to them .....yes. Put there to test the faith. How can you argue with that logic? You can read about it online of course.

"There is no room in their scenario for dinosaurs."

Really Mike? Perhaps then you could tell me what non-dinosaur animal could be described as having a tail like a cedar tree and bones like beams of bronze or ribs like bars of iron? (referred to as Behemoth here). Or Leviathan, the sea creature which you can read about here. I can't imagine what non-dinosaur animal could fit that description, can you suggest one?!

Tim,

I had a look at those links.

With all due respect that is Evangelical Bull*%it.

Next you'll be expecting us to believe the Planet is just 6000 years old. Did God extract those 65 million year old fossils from elsewhere and stick them into the Earth when He/She "created" the Planet we live on?

Jim.

Sorry Jim, I was just pointing out that it was incorrect for Mike to say "There is no room in their scenario for dinosaurs" when "their scenario" includes clear references to dinosaurs.

Phil,

You are confused.

The correct term is "climate change". Global Cooling became Global Warming which begat Climate Change. The use of any other term just encourages the unbelievers.

At some future time we can expect to see an new term being used that will address the discrepancies caused by using the term "Climate Change".

Cheers,

RJ5023,
Your post is already out of date!!

Our Great Blonde Leader, he who knows all, and his dead Swan, the Treasurer, have taken to calling this pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo "Dangerous Climate change"

We had all better look out........Dangerous Climate change is coming to get us all unless every body toes the line and passes this unexplained, and possibly unexplainable, ETS Bovine excreta yesterday.

Tomorrow is too late.

Disco.

Bugger. I'lll update the list.

One thing though. I really do believe that it's time for things to change. But I'd much rather see all this time, effort and money spent on population control (which would benefit all of us and the planet) rather than climate control (which is not achieveable).

Population demand creates pollution
More population creates more pollution.

So why try to fix the effect and ignore the cause?

What is being attempted is just a short term bandaid if the world population continues to grow.

Cheers,

RJ5023 has nailed it IMO...................

Until we do something about population growth (and yes, I'm responsible for some of it ;-)), then every thing else is pure "Pie in the Sky'...

At least China (to their credit) have taken a step in the right direction in this regard..

:)

Thanks Ed,

What seems most incredible to me - beside the fact that our leaders and experts are barking up the wrong tree - is that "climate control" continues to be promoted as some kind of permanent solution to the real problems that we all face.

It is not.

No matter how much money is spent in mitigation it cannot fix the problem. True, we need to stop mucking the place up so badly, but it's the sheer numbers of us that are the cause.

If "Climate management" solutions are put in place that will ease some of the problems today, those solutions willl surely need to be made ever more harsh and more costly in the future when there are even more of us?

I think population control is too hard for our leaders to attempt, and they should be censured for their lack of foresight and courage. Talk about caring for the wellbeing of future generations is just rubbish if those generations will be competing for a shrinking pool of resources in an increasingly unfriendly environment - and we do nothing about it in our lifetime.

Sod it - time for a beer!

Cheers,

"At least China (to their credit) have taken a step in the right direction in this regard."

Interesting you say that as even China has now started to realise their 'solution' brings its own problems and may not have been such a good idea...

Its not the ice in the glass its the other 2 cubes you add after the glass is filled you have to think about.

Thats the ice on the land and not in the sea :-)

Maybe you had a couple before you thought about it :-0

Last time ,actually every time , fill your ice tray with water , then place in freezer and freeze and what have you? Ohh no we have ice which takes up more room /area than the water did , melt the ice and raise the sea levels? tell,em their dreaming. LOL

Put a bottle of scotch in the freezer with 3 fingers, then get 8oz of water in a cube and a glass and see how long.................................................yup, failing this experiment too...

But the best thing about the y2k farce was that it had a definite end date. This impending ice-age, er, global warming, er, climate change, er, dangerous climate change, er, carbon emissions scaremongering could potentially go on indefinitely...

PS. On a more Serious Note, I reckon it has a lot to do with TOYOTA 4x4's causing the problem lol lol.

G/Day Jim

You could have a point there, but do we have to rush in head first while the Major Industrial Nations sit on their hands and do nothing or very little ?.

Daz,

We can choose to be leaders or followers.

Somebody has to hit the ball over the net before the game can begin.

Regards,

Jim.

If you believe *anyone* in the world looks to Australia for a lead you are suffering from a serious case of enlarged ego.

"You are suffering from a serious case of enlarged ego"


Very good Nigel.
LOL isn't that the very same problem that Rudd has?
Rudd has some self importance issues and thinks the whole world will look at him as some sort of "climate leader" in world affairs rather than the joke he is really regarded as.

Your obvious political affiliation makes it hard to attach any significance to your posts.

I would suggest that every post in this thread has a political slant, after all its political policy that is being debated or don't you think tax has anything to do with political policy?

Cheers

Jim

I am with you.

Forget the politics. The weight of scientific opinion is that our use of fossil fuel is causing irreversible climate change. Common sense says that if we burn all the stored fossil fuel on earth and put it back into the atmosphere in a couple of hundred years it is going to have a dramatic effect on climate.

Who does it benefit it we burn all the carbon stored as gas or oil, clear all the forests, turn the earth into a feedlot for billions of mouths that are the plague of homo sapiens?

Why not take steps to slow the process?

To those who make a living digging up or burning coal I say to you find another job, perhaps in alternative energy generation and the rest of us will help you. But please stop sounding like ignorant rednecks.

Bob,

You're right, this is above politics, some fools just can't see it. And some have such a warped political agenda that they cannot offer an objective view.

Spot on Jim

what gets me is that a company copies a product the hangs the dick on the other... "designed electronic field coil
control for unique output control compared to others
on the market."

Sorry but I'm one of those original type of guys... I have a Christie Engineering Outback Battery Charger 2.5hp 55 amps and yes they are noisy but they are made to charge battery's not generate power. so a farmer can get a tractor started within an hour, and so on.

Not ment at anyone just had to say it.. :-)

Cheers

Richard

"Two scenarios here:
1. The ... Scientists are right and by cleaning up the planet we will save the place....
2. The Scientists are wrong, but we will still clean up the planet and make it a better place ....
It is not a difficult choice."

Jim, if it was just about cleaning up the planet then I'd be right there alongside you. But if it's about spending a fortune trying to control something that's out of our control (ie. climate) then it's a very different matter.

Phil I would suggest you don't have to much to fear other than leaving your grandkids with the largest levels of debt this country has ever seen.
i would be more worried about how our future generations will pay for this governments spending.

If this was a real issues about the well being of the planet and not the money then ask the simple question.

Why does Rudd provide the claimed biggest carbon polluters (coal industry) the biggest $$ subsidies or exempt the agriculture industry?

Answer is simple, he knows that to forgo a few dollars up front will give him the best chance to get his ETS through and allow him to collect more money further on down the track.
Its got nothing to do with protecting the planet and everything to do with tax.

Such a cynic, John ;)

Cynicism born on fact I would suggest! :-)

John (Vic) you seem to be excessively absorbed by the politics of global warming. You sound like you are a lobbyist for the coal industry. True?

Forget the politics- how about the science?

Sorry to disappoint Bob.....No.

Well...we could all turn off our computers, and the lights. After all most of Australia's electricity is from coal fired power stations....

Okay, so I am tongue in cheek here.....but there is little in the way of viable alternatives that maintains the lifesrtyle we are accustomed to, at a price we can afford.

I find the problem is that it is always someone else causing the problem, but when it really gets down to the nitty gritty, none of us is willing to take the drastic step of...well turning off our computers, or TV, and whatever else we happen to be running right now.

That is the pointy end of driving change...taking away the demand.

So true Landy - we all want our homes and offices to be a stable 20 deg. C all year 'round, but the building owner must install ENERGY EFFICIENT a/c! And don't make me walk up a flight or two of stairs - I want an electric lift or escalator... etc. Don't make me give up my car because I'm too lazy to ride a bicycle and public transport is not door to door exactly when I want it.

So many people happy to exalt themselves for trivial gains (energy efficient lighting, Earth Hour, etc. as if lighting is the most significant part of your energy usage!) as long as it doesn't inconvenience them...

‘Deal with that too’....I don’t think so.

The mate and I would much prefer to have a beer down by to the creek and let all you smart blokes figure it out. Wake me up after all the latest hysteria is over.

The one thing that has come out of this, is an affirmation that we have a clown shop running the country, rather than a responsible Parliament.

Regards

Kim

"The one thing that has come out of this, is an affirmation that we have a clown shop running the country, rather than a responsible Parliament. "

You'll get no argument out of me on that one mate!

Geoff

Bad example. It was fixed by legislation and international agreement to stop using CFCs.

That's what they are trying to do now... not much chance of success though, because it's a much bigger scale problem.

It will be interesting to look back at how things have gone in 30 years.

My position is that a little political tax won't do too much harm. We end up being the good guys. The money churns around. We'll be okay.

I don't like the fear campaigns. Do the right thing. Make the environment a bit better and pay me heaps for the 60, 000 trees I've planted over the last 20 years. [nothing like a vested interest to crystalize a view].

Careful Graeme you may just get labelled a climate antagonist or sceptic posting info that could cast some doubt about what is being told to the masses.

Some just choose to remain naive and refuse to look at the big picture, undertake some research and question what is being said.

Honestly, to have any scientific credibility whatsoever that graph really needs it y-axes labelled!

Me too.

As a carbon-based-life-form myself, I place great faith in our ability to adapt.

George

Something else we can do too Brushy, we can get our governments to construct huge desalination plants everywhere and we can then drink the water to counteract the rising sealevels.

One of the things about most reports are they say by 2050.... most of the people above you, including me wont be alive..... :-) or :-( which ever way you look at it.

But I'm sure you are a lot younger (or Phil is VERY old :) and may live that long. so it is easy for older people not to believe and can the idea as they will not be around to witness the problem...

Our Swan River is dieing and they have found 9 or 10 old rubbish tip that where on the foreshore of the river dating back 200 year (if I'm wrong someone WILL correct me LOL). Million's of dollars to repair, It was not the fault of the people years ago,,,,,,,, they didn't know any better...mmmm.

Thats why the young have to learn and do better.. Not in anyway meaning you, just the young are the future..

Cheers

Kevin Rudd

G'Day Richard,

First, I won't tell Dad that you said he's old... ;-)))

I will have my 68th birthday in 2050 and hopefully I will still be alive. I guess my point is that there is so much talking and not a whole lot of doing, and the sad thing is that I don't think there is going to be a whole lot of doing, because in reality, none of the contributing countries want to completely change their infrastructure, energy resources, lifestyle, manufacturing output, etc. Doing what is actually required to change anything in the atmosphere is economic suicide, and we all know that the economy comes first over the environment.

You are right about the beauty of hindsight of course, and it is good that they are cleaning up the rubbish tip on the river. I had the experience of doing some work on the Eyre Peninsula a couple of years back in a lagoon which was located between a rubbish dump and the beach. The soil in the lagoon smelled like hydrocarbon- disgusting- but what was worse was that the leachate was flowing with the groundwater directly out to sea. Clearly these things weren't an issue when they built the dump, just like the dump on the river.

I do get my knickers in a knot though when people blame the lack of flows in rivers on climate change... but that's a story for another day.