How many amps recharge via 12v supply per hour of driving ?

Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 14:20
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I’m not an electrical expert so thought I’d ask the question. If I have a bank of 6 AGM batteries in my camper trailer (up to 210 amp hours) and my Anderson 12v supply runs from the vehicle to the batteries direct how many amps are getting recharged per hour of engine use?

Trailer has deep cycle multi charger when plugged to mains, but the 12v bypasses that and goes straight to them. (oh and yes, have battery isolator in the vehicle)

Cheers,
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Reply By: Member - Fred B (NT) - Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 14:51

Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 14:51
zigdog,
there are a number of factors that will affect the charge rate, the state of all your batteries at the time of starting the charge. e.g. how much load has been on them and how discharged are they? Theoretically, your start battery should charge first (depending on how your dual battery system is set up). Then all other batteries (if connected together).

As a rule of thumb, a days drive (even running the fridge while driving) should see the batteries fully recharged. But as I said, there are a large number of factors that effect this.
regards,
Fred B
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Reply By: Member - Graham H (NSW) - Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 15:12

Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 15:12
zigdog
This is best way to charge batteries as they charge at car alternators max amperage usely around 100 amps.
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Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 15:30

Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 15:30
It will depend on the factors mentioned, the output rating of the alternator, what load you have on it for normal operation of the vehicle, alternator temp and size of cables you are using.

I've measured 50 Amps going into by aux batteries from alternator using digital clamp metre. I suspect the peak in my case might be 60 Amps. But this drops off as battery charges.

Norm C
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Follow Up By: zigdog - Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 17:49

Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 17:49
Hi Norm c,

Then I suspect I need to go and re-wire then. Auto elec guy suggested I run 6mm cable to the anderson plug to charge the camper. According to guidelines 6mm is rated for 50amps current. My Jeep Wrangler has a 160amp alternator so pushing a lot out through the cranking battery once charged.
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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 19:00

Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 19:00
The alternator may be rated at 160A, but what is actually delivered is determined by the batteries and wiring. The only time the alternator might deliver anything like 160A is driving a winch which has jammed!

John
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Follow Up By: Mad Cowz (VIC) - Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 19:34

Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 19:34
I always tell poeple never skimp on the cable. I was fortunate that I had quite a bit of 32 sq mm cable lying around.
It has probably been said that it also depends on what you are running in the trailer, if you run a fridge, cpap machine and maybe an electric blanket, then you don't drive a long way each day you will need big cable so as to not limit current.

horses for courses.........

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Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Wednesday, Dec 30, 2009 at 12:49

Wednesday, Dec 30, 2009 at 12:49
zigdog, your 6mm cable is way to small. The 50 Amp rating you mention is most likely the current it will accept without melting. Not very helpful.
When I had a CT and no solar, I ran 25mm sq double insulated welding cable all the way to CT via 175 Amp Anderson plugs.

Have not gone to that extent with the van. Partly because I have 360 AH of AGMs in the van and don't want to overload the alternator. But I have 390 Watts of solar on the van.

Just to clarify, the 50 Amps of charge I have measured is to an AGM in the engine bay. Very short run and very heavy cables. You will not get that sort of charge to your CT, but with heavy cables, I would think you should achieve 15 to 20 Amps (dropping off with temp and battery charge), which is pretty good.

Norm C
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Reply By: Member - John and Val - Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 18:57

Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 18:57
As already said, there are many factors affecting the charge rate, but probably the main one is the extent of voltage loss in wiring between the main cranking battery and the trailer battery. The only way to really know what current is flowing to the trailer batteries is to measure it. This current is very dependent on voltage and any loss of voltage in the cables (both +12V and ground return) will have a major effect. Unless you have very big cables and good (Anderson for preference) connectors, I doubt that your trailer battery bank will ever see more than 10A.

It isn't generally recognised how important wiring losses can be. In most cases, the alternator will deliver about 14V (cold), less when hot . The battery chemistry defines its voltage to be about 12.6V. The small voltage difference (14 - 12.6 = 1.4V) is what's pushing charge into the battery. We can easily lose a volt in the wiring and this will drop the current into the battery by well over half.

We have a meter mounted on the dashboard monitoring current flow at the batteries, which in our Troopy are mounted behind the seats (much less wiring length and hence losses than in your case). With a half discharged battery we charge at up to about 15 amps initially, dropping to half that as the alternator warms up. (This temperature response is deliberate designed into alternators - it is aimed at optimising conditions for the cranking battery.)

If you'd like to measure the current into/out of your batteries, there are 3 options - 1) clamp meters exist, simply clamp them around the wire to make a rough measurement. 2) Insert a -20 to +20 amp meter into the charging line. Problem here is that the meter can't be viewed while you are on the road.
3) In my opinion very much better - insert in the battery line a very low value resistor (1/1000 ohm is ideal) and measure the voltage drop across it using a cheap digital meter. (each amp will produce 1 millivolt) Suitable resistors and meters are available from Jaycar and similar places. This approach will require a bit of familiarity with the technology, but works very well, as the meter and display can be remote from the point where the measurement is made.

Lastly, chargers are available to increase the charging voltage ( and hence current). You might be interested to read our blog Electricity for Camping where these and many other things are discussed.

To respond directly to your question - I'd expect that you are getting no more than 10 amps into your batteries, and probably average much less than that. Let's say 7 amps average. So each hour you are putting in 7 amphours of charge, which is really not enough for a 200+ Amphour battery bank. You most certainly are not getting the 50 or 60 amps suggested by others. Suggest get an autoelectrician to measure it for you. For the health of your batteries you really need to be able to charge them fully, and I can't see that happening.

Sorry to spread gloom, but wish you the best!

Cheers

John
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark E (VIC) - Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 20:39

Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 20:39
Very well written and concise, John.

I have a similar setup to the OP and I have used 25mm sq/twin cable to the camper with 175 amp Anderson plugs and even with this size cable I understand the compromise with voltage drop. ( I have read Colyn Rivers' books).

From what I have ascertained my 220 AH bank will charge in roughly 4-6 hours if not depleted beyond the safe level of about 60%. When I get home it's on to the 240v charger to get them right up. Currently looking into solar.

Thanks for the info. Must have a look at your blog.

Cheers,

Mark
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Follow Up By: zigdog - Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 20:46

Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 at 20:46
Thanks John, very detailed reply.
I am getting a solar pack to help with charge while we're static for a few days. I hope to never let them drop low, so only aiming for top up charges between sites. Just wondered if my wire was good enough and how much charge i'd get for each hour of engine run.
thanks
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Follow Up By: Maîneÿ . . .- Wednesday, Dec 30, 2009 at 15:07

Wednesday, Dec 30, 2009 at 15:07
With a decent solar system you should have the DC battery system fully charged ALL day, not needing any recharging from the vehicle at all during the day.

Maîneÿ . . .
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