4x4's vs 4x4's

Submitted: Sunday, Sep 28, 2003 at 21:17
ThreadID: 7490 Views:2108 Replies:8 FollowUps:1
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I have seen so many times people say that all 4x4's are very capable of doing the same job but this weekend i have seen something to say otherwise..... So after saying what i have to say i am sure people will say "tyre pressures, driving skills, gear, revs, etc, etc,,"... but my eyes were opened....

I went to a friends property in the southern flinders with various other vehicles and we had this one hillclimb to tackle which may have been 35 degrees with loose shail, deeps ruts and holes.... The climb would have been around 70metres or so.....

All the coil sprung vehicles made it with a some slip and bumping around and not one of the two leaf sprung hilux's even made it half way..... "no lockers in either"...

I am not having a go at hilux's..... I am just stating what i saw...
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Reply By: Rob from Cairns Offroad Training & Tours - Sunday, Sep 28, 2003 at 21:31

Sunday, Sep 28, 2003 at 21:31
I have owned 4 hilux dual cabs over the years 79 -86 until my family grew to large. I have always found them to be very capable tho under powered in diesel form. Imagine my disapointment whilst training a fellow in a brand new 3lt hilux d\side ute when it wouldn't climb hills on my training tracks that most vehicles do easily. Reducing tyre presuure to 24lb solved this problem. I attribute this to too stiff suspension and inadequate wheel articulation specially from the independent front end. Power was more than adequate. A new Rodeo on the same day climbed the hills easily. Our 4x4s are becoming more and more road oriented making for better safer road cars at the expence of offroad capability without extensive modification. Cheers Rob Cairns Offroad Training & Tours
AnswerID: 32258

Reply By: Steve - Sunday, Sep 28, 2003 at 21:48

Sunday, Sep 28, 2003 at 21:48
IMHO: All 4 wd 's are not the same..... some are heavy, .. and some are lightweight .. The heavy ones generally use their weight to cut thru the top soft surface with their narrow 7.50 x16 's and grip lower down, and then get out of trouble ... the lightweight ones can't do this and their wheels get stuck in the soft layer and die !!! And, as often is the case , to add insult to injury the Hi Luxers go and buy 'fatties' to "drive on sand" and this only exacerbates the problems (ie makes it worse !).....a lightweight unit on wide "steamroller" tyres have nothing to grip on and cannot push their way over the sand build up in front of each tyre !!!

It's not rocket science.... just hard for some to reason ...
AnswerID: 32260

Reply By: ross - Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 01:56

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 01:56
I went to a 4wd gymkana this weekend (27-28 sept) and the hilux and other leafed sprung and hybrids and coils were all pretty even.I think the coils give a better ride but if you want to carry a heavy load leafs seem to be better.
Watching 4wds go through their paces on various types of terrain it became obvious the lighter and shorter the vehicle the more successfull they were.There were other instances where choosing the correct line to take and the correct gear ratio made huge differences between identical vehicles.
From my own experience often the 1st vehicle can make it through dificult sections but churns things up for those following and is enough to stop them.
I personally never get into debates over which is the best 4x, as Ive seen old ladas,landrovers do better than vehicles that are 10 or 20 times more expensive.
I think all 4wd drives have a particular job that they can do better than others.
AnswerID: 32272

Reply By: Member - Bob - Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 06:26

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 06:26
It would be interesting to know the weight distribution in the Hilux (front/rear). Without any downward force over the rear wheels you imagine that there wouldn't be much traction, and it would be like driving a front wheel drive car up the hill.Bob
AnswerID: 32276

Follow Up By: Time - Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 07:28

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 07:28
........and I have taken my 'lux where other makess haven't been able to go.........this prove ???????????

Cheers

Buggerlux
0
FollowupID: 23056

Reply By: rickster - Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 18:54

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 18:54
6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other,they are all much of a muchness !!!!!!!!
AnswerID: 32339

Reply By: Kev - (Cairns,QLD) - Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 22:57

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 22:57
Voxson,
I know what your talking about, my brother has a Holden V6 Hilux with 33" mud tyres & has trouble climbing hill that my 80 series just crawls straight up.

We put it down to the leaf springs, the lighter weight & no LSD.
He is now getting lockers so this should help.

I will say one thing, different 4wd are beter at different things, my 80 is good for climbing but the Hilux is unstopable in the mud.

AnswerID: 32359

Reply By: kezza - Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 23:30

Monday, Sep 29, 2003 at 23:30
Sorry boys - there is too much misinformation happening here.
They are not all "much of a muchness" .
With all else being equal (tyre pressure revs etc)
Major factors are suspension and articulation (read long and short legs if you like)
Some vehicles can keep all 4 wheels on the ground longer.
Some have LSDs some have open diffs.
Some LSDs work better than others.
Some have ideal power to weight ratios. - Makes a short and light vehicle do well sometimes and a heavy vehicle do well other conditions.
Some are better balanced
Some configurations work well in some situations some dont but work well in other situations.
Diesels have advantages - petrols have advantages.
Yes you can have too wide a tyre for optimal traction but it is less of a factor than other things
You can have too narrow a tyre for other situations.
- drop your tyre pressures and lift the foot off the hammer a lot and it wont even spin in the 1st place.

The 1st vehicle through can make it easier or harder for the next vehicle depending on the terrain.
Once you work out the vehicles capabilities -- then work out what the driver, tyres modifications and experience can do to get each vehicle into or out of trouble.
One could write a book about this debate.
Never think that all 4bys are created equal.

Kezza
AnswerID: 32360

Reply By: Jeff (Beddo) - Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003 at 18:25

Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003 at 18:25
Driven heaps of Hiluxs and presently have a 97 model Surf. The Hilux rear end is extremely light - try driving a dual cab hilux in the wet on road, rear end always slips out - just add a bit of load in the rear end. They are a good solid car and where many other makes will rattle too bits on corrugations the Tojo holds up to it well. If you want a generally good vehicle they are great - seroius competion vehicles all need modification - if you are going touring and want to determine what are good vehicles go talk to gov't departments and fleet companies about the reliability of 4WDs - escpecially talk to those who do a lot of dirt driving eg Nat Pks, Forestry etc.Cheers, Beddo
Surf KZN185
<- Yengo NP, Central Coast NSW
AnswerID: 32413

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