79 series V8 High tech verses low tech
Submitted: Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 08:20
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Rockape
Guess it is the way of the world and we will have to get used to it.
I was thinking that my old school 6.5l chevy diesel and troopy are getting a little long in the tooth and I wouldn't mind a new 4.5l diesel Troopy.
I like the kick of the new turbo engine, but I didn't know if paying out all that money was worth it.
Well now I know, I will stick to my old girl and leave the new engines alone.
I like a vehicle that is simple, easy to work on and reliable. We have to go the Hi-tech way, but now we need an army of support in the middle of nowhere to fix anything.
Here a some photo's of an engine that developed a small water leak and what was found. Also a photo of the intercooler showing that it doesn't suffer with getting clogged with mud.
Photo one is of the charge air assembly that you have to remove to access anything in the valley.
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Next photo is of the air intake where the EGR valve has deposited what looks like Heavy oil that ships run on. Cause unkown, engine running ok and no abnormal emmissions from the chimney.
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This a small section of gunk that just stuck to the screwdriver
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This a photo of the EGR valve that you have to remove to get to the starter, Note! all the hoses that are hidden from view.
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There it is I can see a starter motor.
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The offending fuel cooler, the pipe was corroded from the outside in.
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And lastly the intercooler that is a couple of years old and has operated in not the most ideal enviroment. It has survived well, but the a/c condensors keep rotting out all the time, to the point of it being considered economical to install roof mounted units.
Reply By: Ray - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 08:31
Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 08:31
I could not agree more. Vehicles are getting too complicated now and beyond being able to be fixed at the side of the road.
You stick with your old troopy and forget the rest.
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 14:49
Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 14:49
It's not all bad news Ray. My Uncle is a bit of a fan of the Model-T Ford (and has rebuilt one himself) - he likes to brag that it's so simple and easy to work on that he could change the crankshaft on the side of the road if he had to. "How many modern cars could you do that with?" he asks. He was at a loss when my brother politely countered "With a modern car, how often would you expect to change the crankshaft?"
We were all nervous about the introduction of electronic fuel injection. We all said "we'd rather the old fashioned points and distributors because we can adjust them on the road, not like these modern computers where something goes wrong and there's nothing you can do". While that's true, how often does the fuel injection system need adjusting or replacing? On my early 4WDs, I was forever replacing points (every time the car saw some water) and condensors, rotors, etc. and adjusting dwell angles, points gaps, while trying to keep the dust and water away from the critical bits. Since nervously buying my first electronic fuel injected vehicle about 6 years back, would I go back to the old fashioned points and distributor? Not if I had any choice! :-)
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Follow Up By: Outbacktourer - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 16:23
Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 16:23
Good point Timbo, remember when Turbo's came out, they were the work of the Devil, now everybody has one.
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 20:17
Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 20:17
Yep,
you guys are right, but when someone pays 70000 bucks to trusted supplier, I would expect the best, even in the early stages.
Common rail diesels and computors have been around for a while, Detriot diesels from the late 1930's and modern ecu's from around the late 90's.
Turbo's were never a problem if they were fitted by the manufacturer to a diesel engine.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 19:10
Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 19:10
Funny how things never change.....in the late 80's and early 90's when all the heavy vehicles went to electronics I heard so many truck drivers say they will never go to this unreliable electronic stuff.....what happens when they fail BLAH.. BLAH.. BLAH.
Sure there was some teething problems like anything but there are trucks running around with original electronics that have exceeded well over 2 million KM's and in some of the roughest environments around.
The electronic engines gave better fuel economy and increased power in a more drivable package.
Don't blame the manufactures for going HI TECH, blame the governments of the world who stipulate lower emissions from vehicle manufactures.
What is going to happen when we go to zero% sulfur in diesel fuel...can't wait to see the people with dinosaur diesels complaining they have fuel dripping from there fuel pumps and they have to spend thousands on getting them rebuilt and seals changed from rubber to vitron.
I suppose yous will blame the manufacture for this decisions as well!
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Reply By: Outbacktourer - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 08:33
Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 08:33
Thanks for posting rockape, always good to know "limitations" of what we drive, forwarned is forearmed as they say.
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Reply By: Member - Andrew L (QLD) - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 08:37
Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 08:37
You will find that crud and heavy oil/slime in many many positive pressure..ie turboed diesels and with EGR systems.
Easiest solution apart from making sure the EGR is not working...erm..I mean is working ...is to install a oil vapour/catch can in the crankcase ventilation system. Manufacturers don't seem to be too keen on doing it properly.
The Supercrap type versions you find in auto shops are not the ones to use on a large diesel.
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Follow Up By: Ozhumvee - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 09:44
Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 09:44
Rockape where did the pic of the intercooler go? into the ether?
I'm with you on keeping the old tech, the 6.2 in the Humvee is now 22 years old, still going strong and will for many years yet. Bits are cheap and freely available, change the oil regularly, feed them clean air and they'll go forever.
Even if the Tojo engine above hadn't been exposed to such a corrosive working environment the thought of all those pipes and bits and pieces out of sight is a time bomb waiting to happen as the vehicle gets older.
They certainly don't expect it to be worked on, imagine when the starter brushes wear out you would be up for $1,000's in labour to replace a part that costs a few dollars. But I guess coming from a country where vehicles have an expected life of 5 years max then they wouldn't plan on doing any work on them.
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 09:50
Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 09:50
G'day Andrew and Peter,
I've just added a Provent 200 catch can to my ol' 6.5 Chev donk. It saves the oily residue from the PCV system from going back into the intake and gunking-up the inlet valves.
I too will be sticking with the old technology engine whilst ever I'm doing trips away from civilisation.
Maybe when I'm old and
grey......... (hang on; I'm ALREADY old and
grey....hahaha).......... and have to buy a wobbly-box, then I'll be able to have a computer-controlled rig with pipes going all over the joint, because I'll never be off the bitumen and never too far from a NRMA, RACV/Q or RAA etc serviceman.
Roachie
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Follow Up By: Ozhumvee - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 10:51
Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 10:51
The Humvee doesn't really suffer from that problem, maybe because the air intake system is larger, min 4" with some 4.5" and only about 2 ft between the aircleaner and manifold. I only get a bit of oil around the CDR valve which is the Humvee equivalent to a PCV valve. Certainly no buildup in the intake, there is usually a fine film of oil but never excessive.
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 13:29
Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 13:29
Pete, don't know where the pic of the intercooler went, stolen I suspect, so here it is again.
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 11:46
Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 11:46
Hi Rockape - still time to change sides in the Petrol/Diesel debate
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 13:33
Friday, Jan 08, 2010 at 13:33
Robin,
You maybe right, We have lost 2 V8 diesel engines already to lack of coolant, the old 1hz's were easy to see in and around, so that problem as minimised,
No petrol for me sorry, I keep sniffing it. LOL
Have a good one
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Follow Up By: Richard Kovac - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 03:51
Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 03:51
Rock ape
You need to fit coolant pressure gauges and alarms .. to keep on top of it..
Toluene problem the fuel company are trying to fix with the help of the government... LOL not
Cheers
Richard
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 06:44
Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 06:44
Richard,
I believe they are going to fit low coolant alarms to the fleet.
It is costing them $14000 for second hand engines + fitting, making it an expensive exercise.
On another note, some of the utes are rusting badly where the window pillars meet the door skin.
Have a good one
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Reply By: get outmore - Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 19:17
Saturday, Jan 09, 2010 at 19:17
I too drive mine vehicles andknow full well they suffer problems the averadge punter is unlikely to see for 00s of 000s of ks if at all
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