Death Wobbles

Submitted: Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:37
ThreadID: 75193 Views:3572 Replies:14 FollowUps:10
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Hi,

My HJ45 as an extremely violent shake, the whole car shakes.

I've had a look at the u joints and there is no play when try to shake it by hand, the u bolts look okay, however on of them has little thread going though the nuts, less that flush, whereas theothers are sticking throug the nut about 1 inch. they look tight as in the bracket above the leaf spring is firm against the axle.

I really just strating to learn about cars and as you can probally tell. Any suggestions on what it may be and what i should be looking for.

Another thing, i cant be certian it is disengaging out of 4wd. there is no clunking sound when going form 4h to 2h, like there is going from 4H to 4L. is there an easy way i can check this? could this be the problem even with the hubs free.

Also, my friend filled the car up with fule while the car was still running. Could this have had any effect? I have replaced the fule filter scince and that seemed relativly clean.

Cheers,
Richard
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Reply By: Road Warrior - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:46

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:46
Err, I had a Land Rover S2a that did this - turned out it was the control arm bushes in the front end were totally flogged out causing it to shake uncontrollably while on the road. Have you had the front end checked out?
AnswerID: 399340

Reply By: Ozhumvee - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:54

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:54
Get the front end and steering linkages all checked, sounds like the tie rod ends, drag link, front pivot (in the corner of the chassis rail out the front all need checking. The steering box may also need either adjusting or rebuilding.
AnswerID: 399341

Follow Up By: rich333 - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:19

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:19
thanks for the reply, i was thinking that it may not be due to the steeing components as the shake is not in the steering wheel, but more of a full body shake. could it be the steering components?
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FollowupID: 668317

Follow Up By: Ozhumvee - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 13:11

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 13:11
It could be still the steering.
Do the easy things first, the wheels are balanced?, are round? no bulges on tyres etc, nothing oviously bent underneath like tailshaft etc?, Hubs aren't loose, the rears have bearings and seperate hubs similar to the front.
Process of elimination unfortunately.
Does it happen after the wheels hit a pothole or bump? if so it possibly is steering related.
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FollowupID: 668327

Follow Up By: rich333 - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 13:20

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 13:20
its doesnt happen over after a pot hole or anything....

it is strange, it usually happends about 70ks, then stops when i slow down to about 20ks then i can speed up again, and it wont do it for a while. i was going 100ks then slowed down for red light and it started.
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FollowupID: 668330

Follow Up By: Ozhumvee - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 13:56

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 13:56
could even be a wheel out of balance?
Has it just started happening?
could be a tyre separating if it has
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FollowupID: 668335

Reply By: Member - MUZBRY(Vic) - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:11

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:11
Gday Richard
Try tyre and wheel balance. Then try uni joint that might be ceased.
Murray
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AnswerID: 399343

Reply By: Member - MUZBRY(Vic) - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:13

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:13
Gday again
Try and check that the tail shaft is not bent as well.

Muzbry
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AnswerID: 399344

Reply By: Mikee5 (Logan QLD) - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:14

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:14
Hi Richard,

Welcome to 4WD'ing. Here are some questions to help diagnose your shake -

Did it always shake or has it just started?
Do you have mud on the wheels?
Do you know the history of the wheels - are they bent?
Does it shake with the hubs out or in or both?

You should completely stop before changing from H4 to L4 and back or you could do some very expensive damage.
As long as the hubs are locked you can change from H2 to H4 and back at any speed but not recommended on bitumen at 100 -:)

Refuelling with the engine running is illegal at a servo AFAIK, but won't affect the vehicle.
AnswerID: 399345

Follow Up By: rich333 - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:30

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:30
Hi,

I did blow a tyre and put on the spare, which i do not know the history of. i did drive about 1000km on the hwy, straight rd - no problem, took a turn off on a winding road about 80ks per hr when it started. stopped once i got back on the hwy for about 300km to home. has been shaking around town, when driving once a week to keep it healthy.

no mud on wheelss.

i will take for a drive with hubs locked tonight to test
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FollowupID: 668319

Follow Up By: Member - MUZBRY(Vic) - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:33

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:33
Gday
If it didn't wobble before the tyre change, it is getting pretty obvious that its the spare tyre.
Murray
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Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:44

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:44
Yeah I agree Muzbry, I think I would be checking the wheel nuts aren't starting to come loose.
GU RULES!!

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Follow Up By: Member - MUZBRY(Vic) - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:50

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:50
Gday
I think this is very sad. all these blokes sitting at home doing vehicle repairs for other people.
I have a couple more days, we should meet and have a drink together.
Murray
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Follow Up By: Mikee5 (Logan QLD) - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 13:04

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 13:04
No Murray - sitting at work, wishing I wasn't LOL.
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Reply By: Mikee5 (Logan QLD) - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:43

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:43
Are your wheel nuts tight?
Also - if the spare wheel is off a Nissan, while they look the same and the stud pattern is the same, the centre hole is smaller and the wheel won't sit flush on the hub. Try putting the original wheel back on.
AnswerID: 399351

Reply By: Member - Old Girl (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:54

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:54
A bubble in the tyre will do it too.
AnswerID: 399356

Reply By: rich333 - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 13:15

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 13:15
the first thing i checked out was the trye, hopfull it was a simple problem to fix.
i will have another look but i'm pretty certian its not the problem. thanks for the help so far
AnswerID: 399357

Reply By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 14:00

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 14:00
Rich, welcome to the joys of driving early model solid axle 4x4s.

You mention that the shaking developed at 80 kph, is this generaly the speed they seem to happen ?

Firstly, I would discount a drive-train problem as this would cause heavy vibrations and not the wobbles as you describe.

Secondly, I would check the obvious, wheel nuts, out-of-round tyres and signs of thrown balance weights.

Thirdly, check for any play in the front wheel bearings, tie-rod ends and also play in the steering box.

These are usualy the main cluprits, not the only ones, but the main ones.


Cheers.....Lionel.

AnswerID: 399360

Reply By: Member - Tour Boy ( Bundy QLD) - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 14:11

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 14:11
Another thing with early trucks is the body mounts go hard and shrink allowing the body to bounce off the chassis until the bolt pulls it back down. This will amplify any wheel balance problem as it will shake the crap out of the cab. This will not always result in noise from the mounts though, but when it does it will sound and feel like someone is belting the floor with a big hammer.
However it does sound like a balance problem, you may find it will be less or more as you drive around a long corner. The wheels will either shake opposite each other or shake in unison as one rotates faster than the other.

Cheers
Dave
Cheers,
Dave
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AnswerID: 399363

Follow Up By: Member - Tour Boy ( Bundy QLD) - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 14:13

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 14:13
Another thing the 45's were famous for is cracking the chassis above the rear axle, this will also amplify any other issues. Also check for rust in the chassis, also common.

Dave
Cheers,
Dave
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Reply By: splits - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 17:49

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 17:49
Rich

Another possible reason is insufficient caster on the front axle. I have found a few small trucks over the years behaving exactly as you described. A combination of sagged front springs and worn shackle bushes had reduced the caster angle to the point where the wheels wobbled like those you often see on worn shopping trolleys.

The problem was not there all the time. It tended to come and go depending on speed, load and road surface.
AnswerID: 399399

Reply By: Outnabout.. - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 18:47

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 18:47
get it to a suspension shop to have it looked at .
One mans description of a shake is another mans description of a shimmy and they can mean different things.

By all means inspect some of the things mentioned here but when at the shop be very specific about things like the speed it comes or goes at. It may be OK until you hit a pothole etc. Does it vibrate through the car or just the steering wheel.
I am sure it will be identified easily but you will need to be specific


David
AnswerID: 399414

Reply By: Member - Geoff C (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 21:59

Thursday, Jan 14, 2010 at 21:59
I had a GQ patrol wagon with symptoms just like that. Suspected uni joints. It went up on a hoist and was looked at by 2 mechanics who reckoned it was either turbo mount or front end. To cut it short it turned out to be the rear unis. What caused the confusion was that they were frozen solid and when they gave them the wriggle test they appeared to have no slack and they thought they were ok. I'd just bought the vehicle so didn't know its service history. New unis, no more problem.

Geoff
AnswerID: 399449

Reply By: garryk - Friday, Jan 15, 2010 at 18:15

Friday, Jan 15, 2010 at 18:15
G'day
Splits has it correct
its sounds like castor shake
My swb Patrol MQ done it a few times , get wheel alignment checked
its corrected by changing a wedge between spring and axle
Garry
AnswerID: 399606

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