I COULD NOT believe it. Your thoughts please

Submitted: Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:23
ThreadID: 75386 Views:6435 Replies:20 FollowUps:43
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I spotted this car about 3 weeks ago in Warnbro WA.

Sorry the photo aint the greatest but it was getting dark and didnt have much time to get a snap. Not bothering about covering there plate as i believe they should be taken off the road if they honestly use it.Image Could Not Be Found

I didnt think these people actually existed.
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Reply By: Cruiser .- Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:29

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:29
The Boss (Formerly Kroozer),

I am sorry, but I fail to see your point.

Cheers,

Cruiser
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Follow Up By: Member - Pedro the One (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:32

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:32
No towbar .... ????
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:36

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:36
Look closer, you'll see it, the knob simply drilled a hole and attached the tow ball to the bumper.

Jim.

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Follow Up By: Member - mazcan - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 23:06

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 23:06
hi
if you have an even closer look you will see the 6-or 7 pin trailer plug socket
dont think wheely bins have lights????? this bloke has it set up to tow on road what an idiot
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 06:36

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 06:36
I stand corrected by the information posted below and withdraw the knob remark.

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Reply By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:32

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:32
Drilled a hole in the rear step and shove a towball through it!

Jeez where's Darwin when you need the bloke.

We share the roads with these fools!

Is there a method of reporting defective motor vehicles in WA?

Geoff

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Reply By: kend88 - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:36

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:36
Didn't pick up on it at first either, but the tow ball appears to be attached to the flat area of the flimsy, possibly plastic, bumper bar. have to wonder what they tow with it.
kenD
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Reply By: Ozboc - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:43

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:43
There maybe be a method to his madness --- he may live on acreage and i have seen people 'tow" there wheelie bins out to the road via the towball on the back of the car --- if that's all this one is used for then there would be no need for additional support

if its actually used for a box trailer or other --- then its a serious accident waiting --- but given no safety area to chain to -- i am guessing its for the wheelie bin ..


AnswerID: 400503

Follow Up By: bruce - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:46

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:46
Would a wheelie bin need a 5 or 7 pin socket for its lights ?
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Follow Up By: The Boss (Formerly Kroozer) - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:51

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:51
Yeah has definitely been used to tow a trailer. Tow ball was very scuffed and scratched, plus the trailer wiring socket gives it away.
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Follow Up By: Ozboc - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 07:50

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 07:50
true -- i guess i am the optimist not the pessimists - there must be some kind fo way of reporting this ?


Boc
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Reply By: Member - Ed C (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:44

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:44
I wouldn't go making any judgement until I'd had a look underneath the vehicle...

There just MAY be a substantial piece of steel /flat bar hiding under & behind that 'flimsy, plastic bumper bar'.....

I'll reserve my judgement until I know different ;-))


Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"

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Follow Up By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:53

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:53
Agree.

Cheers.....Lionel.
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Follow Up By: The Boss (Formerly Kroozer) - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:55

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:55
HaHaHa, and even if there is does that make it legal or safe?

I think not, nowhere to connect safety chain either.

The bar is actually steel, i checked it as i walked past, but there was no support bar beneath. The steel was very flimsy, you could see where the tow ball had started to sink the bar slightly.
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:06

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:06
I reckon you could be right Ed.

I recall the original Ford Explorers (Exploder) had a similar system for the towbar. There was a blanked off hole from the factory and if you wanted to fit a towball, you just popped-out the plastic blank and bolted up the ball. I never checked it out, but always assumed there was a substantial piece of steel plate under the tread plate.

This rig could be the same.....dunno.

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 22:54

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 22:54
I am with Roachie on this, I recall models that have the towbar setup like this, maybe this is the same...

Tha said if its a hoem jobbie then woohoo what enginuity! Liek the pic I saw a while ago of the fifth wheeler being towed on a tailgate with a couple blicks of wood to the towbar underneath oh my!
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Follow Up By: Top End Explorer - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 06:10

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 06:10
Hey Guys

I just google Ford Courier step tow bar and guess what?

About half way down in the Canopy section it shows a Ford courier with a set up just like the photo, it looks like an older model its the red one under the blue single gab.

Ford Courier Step tow bar.

Cheers Steve.
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 11:34

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 11:34
Roachie , when we had the 96 mod Explorer [u know y the term exploder= firestone tyres] she had exactly that ,I forget now what the actual allowable weight /download was but in was some where round that towing a normal 6x4 trailer was within its scope , Ford in conjuction with HaymanReece brought out a towbar to fit, that allowed upto 2,500 kg and a download of 250kg , then some yrs later there was a recall on the actual tow hitch that Ford supplied on dealer fitted Hayman Reece bars , was a 1600kg rated insert suited from a Ford Falcon supplied instead of the higher rated 2,500kg .
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Reply By: Member - Andrew L (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:48

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:48
Have seen that before, bunging a 50mm towball in a pressed metal rear step/bumper.

What's just as horrifying or sad, is how many police have been behind that vehicle and not either observed the potential hazzard...or thought it too hard an issue to deal with. I guess it's not illegal to actually fit the towball there...but to use it to tow on a public road is the legality question.

There's plenty of vehicles here in QLD that have pretty obvious safety issues, and not many police doing much about it.

Maybe there is a lack of basic education to police about vehicle safety issues...even basic stuff.
AnswerID: 400506

Follow Up By: Member - Lionel A (WA) - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:39

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:39
Not in WA Andrew, they really know their stuff mate.

Few weeks ago was stopped by the law, severly stone chipped windscreen.
[fair enough I thought]
Then asked me to lift the bonnet, pointed out a loose battery retainer, I tightened the wingnuts while he noticed red dust residue around the oil cap. Wiped that off there and then.
Dropped the bonnet then asked if the windscreen washers worked, said I didnt know, I never use them. Turned out the passenger side didnt so as he was scribling out a work order I used a piece of mig wire to clear the nozzle and had the washer working before he finished writing.

"I want the windscreen replaced, all the other problems rectified ??? and a full suspension check done" he said, without checking to see the new bushes and shocks. Then slapped a yellow sticker on the car.

The idiot wasnt even old enough to shave.

Windscreen I can understand, the rest, pedantic little twat.

Cheers......Lionel.
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Follow Up By: Bob of KAOS - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 17:34

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 17:34
The police have sent all the fines to the owner of 1BSI-142.

Bob
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Reply By: Member - Tezza Qld - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:53

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:53
Don't see much wrong with that. Did something pretty similar
on one of mine. It was used to take the wheelie bin up to the front gate. Did a great job.. Only problem just dont forget to stop and place the bin at the top of the drive. I can tell you now that you won't get more than 60kmh out of wheelie bin wheels LOL. What a mess to clean up.

Cheers Teza
AnswerID: 400508

Follow Up By: The Boss (Formerly Kroozer) - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:56

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 20:56
Yes, but do you need trailer lights on your wheelie bin?

Why would this idiot have a trailer plug if it was to tow his wheelie bin?
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 23:23

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 23:23
Why judge him as an idiot, until you have all the facts?
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Follow Up By: chevypower - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 19:42

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 19:42
Boss, you keep using the line "If I Agreed With You We'd Both Be Wrong" with everyone... it's getting a little old, don't you think? Wait, I think I know what your response is going to be.
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Follow Up By: On Patrol & TONI - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 21:46

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 21:46
chevypower,
boss is a member and that is his tag line that will always appear, as does every member of this site tag line "pobodys nerfect" mate not even you. LOL
cheers colin.

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Follow Up By: The Boss - Saturday, Jan 23, 2010 at 02:06

Saturday, Jan 23, 2010 at 02:06
chevypower, yeah sorry mate, its my signature. For some reason my photo has gone? and it looks as thhough its part of my response.

Cheers
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Reply By: Wilk0 - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:02

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:02
Hi Kroozer er I mean Boss,

Cant believe that someone would do that. Oxygen thiefs like this one should be taken off the road.

Nice pick up, i don't think I would have picked it up if i had observed it.

Cheers Wilko
AnswerID: 400510

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 11:40

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 11:40
Factory fitted and ADR compliant , so who is the oxygen thief ?? Wouldnt be someone who jumps to conclusions without checking the facts eh Wilko LOL.
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Follow Up By: Wilko - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 12:53

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 12:53
If it is compliant there would be no-way I'd tow anything heavier then a garbage bin with it : ) ok the guy who designed it is an oxygen thief lol
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Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:04

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:04
The Boss,

The rear step is part of the tow bar, admittedly a light duty tow bar, but that is how Ford had set up the rear step/ tow bar.

The vehicle would have been a Ford Explorer.


Wayne

AnswerID: 400511

Follow Up By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:12

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:12
I agree, Ford Explorers have a screw out cap on the rear bumper/step where you can put a Tow Ball, BUT it only for light weight towing ect, you wouldn't tow a heavy duty trailer or van ect.
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Follow Up By: The Boss (Formerly Kroozer) - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:16

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:16
Ford Courier actually.

Pathetic, another reason not to buy Ford.

That step had absolutely no support underneath at all though, how can they endorse towing something like that.
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FollowupID: 669675

Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:21

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:21
The Boss,

I will stand corrected on the type of vehicle, I knew it was a Ford but not 100% sure on what model.

Wayne
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 12:52

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 12:52
"That step had absolutely no support underneath at all though"

I find that very hard to believe - my Jackaroo had a similar rear bumper with the step in the middle, and while it just looked like a plastic bumper, there was a substantial steel plate underneath the step (this meant you could use the step as, well, a step! without bending/breaking it). I don't know that I'd have stuck a towball on it (at least, not without engineering approval), but the one in the picture could quite likely be a different setup - it may be all legitimate (if you report it, the authorities should be able to determine whether it's legitimate or not).
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FollowupID: 669766

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Sunday, Jan 24, 2010 at 20:52

Sunday, Jan 24, 2010 at 20:52
Boss,

The Ford Courier is a rebadged Mazda Bravo, and I believe you just bought a BT50. Which is rebadged as the Ford Ranger.

This has been going on since the Mazda 323/Ford Laser and the Mazda 626/Ford Telstar dating back to 1981.

Jim.

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Reply By: benting88 - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:11

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:11
That's actually totally fine-

I bet the vehicle was a Ford Courier, or a Mazda Bravo of the same generation?

It has the option of having a normal towbar installed, or the use of the mounting point as seen. The mounting point pictured is rated to 800kg.

AnswerID: 400514

Follow Up By: The Boss (Formerly Kroozer) - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:19

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:19
I am absolutely flabagasted.

What a joke, im not really concerned with what Ford say it can tow, but what is the maximum ball weight? Im sure it couldnt be more then a shopping trolley. The plate was deformed as it was.

Ford should be shot for allowing things like this. If it was my vehicle no way would i use it.
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FollowupID: 669678

Reply By: Motherhen - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:46

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 21:46
Take your picture to your nearest police statiion and see what they say.

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AnswerID: 400522

Reply By: Outbacktourer - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 22:30

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 22:30
Yawn...
AnswerID: 400527

Follow Up By: The Boss (Formerly Kroozer) - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 22:56

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 22:56
HaHaHaHaHa, true
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Reply By: jezza68 - Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 23:39

Thursday, Jan 21, 2010 at 23:39
Jeez Kroozer,

That car has been on your doorstep for the last few years.
It was actually a Broome car until Xmas!!

It has even towed a 14ft dinghy around behind it?

He did it because his SWMBO said she wouldnt spend any more on the setup and so he did it out of spite.

And no it is not me, he works with me and it has been a joke for a while!!
AnswerID: 400533

Follow Up By: The Boss (Formerly Kroozer) - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 01:52

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 01:52
Christ, its a small world.

I stand corrected in the facts that it is actually legal to do this, and must offer my apologies to your mate for thinking it was his ingenuity.

But , i still would not like to be around it when its towing something. Where is his safety chain connection.
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Reply By: cycadcenter - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 01:14

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 01:14
I really don't see anything wrong with it,

It was obviously designed to fit a towball there.

I have an F-150 in the USA with the same set up I have used for several years to tow a small enclosed trailer,

Here is the quote from the Owner's Manual

"USING A STEP BUMPER

The rear bumber is equipped with an integral hitch and only requires a ball with a 1" (25.4mm) shank diameter. The bumper has a 2,270 kg (5000lb) trailer weight and 227 kg (500lb.) tounge weight capacity."

If the owner adhears to the recommended limits of the bumper hitch there is little danger to anyone.

Regards

Bruce
San Diego CA
AnswerID: 400535

Follow Up By: travelmate2 - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 01:22

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 01:22
Bruce

I don't think the poster knows what he is talking about. F series and Explorers plus there Mazda cousins have been doing it for year, here in Australia, so I to do not understand the post..

Makes us Ozies seem dumb..LOL

Ray
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Follow Up By: The Boss (Formerly Kroozer) - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 01:47

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 01:47
I find it dangerous. I wonder why Hayman Resse ad ARB and others spend so much money and charge so much for such large and heavy looking tow bars. when all ya need to do is drill a hole through some thin plate and bobs ya uncle.

My sidesteps are held on with thicker steel then that.
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Follow Up By: cycadcenter - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 02:47

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 02:47
I think you will find that the bumper is PRE DRILLED for the tow ball and the bumper has a manufacturers rated capacity as do all bumper set ups similar to this, even on Mazda's here in the USA.

BTW my F-350 bumper has a capacity of 5000lbs and my Explorer has a 3,500lb capacity.

These figures are actually stamped in the bumper.

Why would you want to spend hundreds of $$$ an a Hayman Reese weighing 100kg with a rating of 3500kg when the purpose is to tow a 750kg tinnie.

Just wondering

Regards

Bruce

San Diego and also Childers Qld

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Follow Up By: Top End Explorer - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 10:41

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 10:41
Cycadcenter.

Where is it obvious that a tow ball is meant to be there?????

It was only obvious to me after I googled it, If someone owns one of these vehicles then it may become OBVIOUS to them, but to those who don't, it may look a bit out of place.

Steve
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Reply By: chevypower - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 03:29

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 03:29
My F-150 has a bumper tow ball hole pre-drilled too. Nothing wrong with it, you just can't pull a heavy load with it. But I do have the square heavy duty hitch and receiver.
Boss, I don't see why you should be policing people showing their number plates saying they are doing something wrong, when they are not. He is not even friggen towing anything! I think if you took that photo to a police station, they will tell you to get a life.
AnswerID: 400539

Follow Up By: The Boss (Formerly Kroozer) - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 04:07

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 04:07
Bite Me
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Follow Up By: chevypower - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 19:39

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 19:39
What am I wrong about? That he wasn't towing anything? That it was pre-drilled? Or the police will tell you to get a life? Go report this dangerous driver who has a towball mounted to his bumper to the police and let us know how your little visit goes. :-) Idiot!
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Follow Up By: The Boss - Saturday, Jan 23, 2010 at 02:09

Saturday, Jan 23, 2010 at 02:09
Mate, i usually dont argue with idiots, as they tend to drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience. So i withdraw
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FollowupID: 669890

Reply By: The Boss (Formerly Kroozer) - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 04:10

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 04:10
Well it seems there were a few of us who found this to be rather dangerous, and hadnt heard of it being standard equipment on these vehicles.

But yet, i am the only person being attacked.

Thats ok though, i can handle it.

Ciao
AnswerID: 400540

Follow Up By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 07:39

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 07:39
Boss no harm done, at the time of posting your Thread you were not aware of the particular vehicle towing setup, I recently sold our Ford Explorer which also had the same Bumper Step Towing Facility, just to clarify things,when we originally purchased the Exploder,the dealership supplied the vehicle with a Heavy Duty bolt on Ford Approved 3500KG Tow Bar, the type you photographed does look flimsy to the unaquainted.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 10:51

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 10:51
Well, you were the one that posted the thread, showed his number plate & called him an idiot!
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FollowupID: 669746

Follow Up By: StormyKnight - Saturday, Jan 23, 2010 at 11:27

Saturday, Jan 23, 2010 at 11:27
OK the ball mount may be safe, but wheres the safety chains?

The safety chains are to make the trailer hitch/ball mount safe.....

Are safety chains optional now?

I thought all trailers had to have them, it stops trailers ending up on the wrong side of the road.......

from this RTA document page 9...

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/2005_10_towingtrailers.pdf

SAFETY CHAINS
Must comply with Australian Standards.
Trailers less than 2500 kg when loaded must be fitted with at least one safety chain.
Trailers over 2500 kg when loaded must be fitted with two safety chains.

Depending on your state of registration, you mileage may vary....

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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Jan 23, 2010 at 16:52

Saturday, Jan 23, 2010 at 16:52
From the poor quality photo you couldn't possibly see if there were any chain mounting points!
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Reply By: Injected - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 09:00

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 09:00
Oh my god... please dont show total ignorance........Standard issue in US with a limited rating.......remember everything is bigger n better in the grand old US of A. HA HA.
AnswerID: 400560

Reply By: palmy - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 09:24

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 09:24
My 2008 BT-50 has the same hole, ready for a tow ball, with a rating of 500kg.
AnswerID: 400563

Reply By: brushmarx - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 10:32

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 10:32
I had a 1990 Rodeo a few years ago, and fitted an after market step rear bar. It had a towball hole pre drilled, and it was rated to 1 tonne pull and 90 kg ball weight. Perfect for a box trailer or smallish boat.
It's amazing how many people are so quick to denigrate and even insult others without having the slightest knowledge.
Just because you have a towball and a 7 pin plug (or similar) doesn't mean you pull 5 tonne boats
I see a few apologies, but far more sledgers.
Cheers
AnswerID: 400571

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 11:57

Friday, Jan 22, 2010 at 11:57
Thats the biggest problem with most forums , to many "experts" that really have no clue , IE. "A mate of my mates brother inlaws 2nd cousins uncles sister inlaws aunt said it was true so it must be "
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FollowupID: 669751

Reply By: Rocko Wallaby - Sunday, Jan 24, 2010 at 17:04

Sunday, Jan 24, 2010 at 17:04
Umm, regardless of the legalities of the towing capacity, I'd have a few questions on it's PRACTICALITY on THIS specfic vehicle.

Firstly, where it's located on this particular vehicle could possibly be considered to cause some restriction in visibility for the number plate. If it had a high rise ball on it, or a cover on it, wouldn't want to have some overly eager beaver copper considering that it breaks the law. In Queensland, the law is apparently that:

"The characters on the number plate are visible from 20m away at any point within an arc of 45 degrees from the surface of the number plate above or to either side of the vehicle"
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_reg/toumrr1999725/s24.html

Personally, I wouldn't want to push it.

Second, if you were backing up, how difficult would it be to run the hitch on the trailer into the back of the vehicle, and therefore the number plate? Not much room for errors there, and can't put on a couplemate without hiding the number plate. Ouchies!

Finally, nothing to do with the actual safety or legality, but it'd be a sod of a thing to reverse park with that ball on. What'd be the maximum angle you could get your trailer to make without taking a chunk out of your vehicle with the A frame? 50 to 60 degrees? Add that to someone who hadn't backed a trailer before, or frequently, and I'd love to have a vid camera handy. Funniest Video's material! Yerk!

May well be legal, but I'd have to question how practical. I'd prefer a nice heavy duty removable hitch at the back of my vehicle, thanks ;)

Then again, I have a Holden Frontera with a 2000kg towing capacity, and a totally useless 90kg ball mass, even with a Hayman Reece hitch! Now having to buy a new twing vehicle, just to tow a really small caravan (ie. 1100kg)! So, stupidity is in the eyes of the manufacturer at all times.

Rocko
AnswerID: 400839

Follow Up By: Rocko Wallaby - Sunday, Jan 24, 2010 at 17:15

Sunday, Jan 24, 2010 at 17:15
Actually, who am I kidding.

A week ago, I saw a 100 series cruiser with a swing away wheel carrier on on the left side, that completely restricted the view of the number plate from anything but directly behind or to the right of the vehicle.

Not sure which brand the wheel carrier was, but it appeared quite well made, and even included an auxilliary set of LED rear lights since the ones on the left were covered. So, prolly not home built. No space to move the number plate that I could see, tho.

So, poor design isn't just limited to vehicle manufacturers.
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FollowupID: 670108

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