gas storage

N,

I wouldn't bet on the validity of that website, anyone can put up what they like on the internet and make spurious claims about legality. People have an unfortunate faith in the veracity of the www world.

Anyway, assuming it is correct (and I don't), one can get 100% propane from Supagas outlets that meets all of the supposed legal requirements.

Butane, Propane?? It all burns. I can't see the slightest danger in running one or the other.

Jim.

Try checking the UN numbers for auto gas and LPG. I don't think there will be much difference.

Duncs

I saved you the trouble and did it myself.

The UN Number for LPG is 1075

The UN Number for Auto-gas is..... you guessed it 1075.

Now I know that this does not mean they are the same thing but it does mean they behave in the same way.

The guidelines for dealing with an escape for these very similar substances are the same. When bushwalking I use an LPG stove. There are two different fuel mixes available. One is for high altitude low temp work and the other is for day to day average stuff. The high altitude has more butane in it because it is slightly more volatile and will evaporate at a lower temperature, making it easier to burn. The biggest difference between the two is price.

I would say that if you use enough gas to make the fiddleing around to fit this tank worthwhile then using auto-gas is not only safe but sensible.

Disclaimer:
However I am not a chemist or a fuel expert and I would encourage you to do your own research. Maybe contact a university and see what they have to say. You could even ring JJJ and ask Dr. Karl, I am sure he would have an educated opinion. He has in the past been a keen off roader so he would understand your reasons too.

Duncs

Another link?

More stuff

Two valid points make it a dumb thing to do. The risk of carbon monoxide poisoning and the insurance implications. Propane and butane are gases at room temp but are different much the same way that petrol and deisel are similar but different. They all burn. Being gases, it's more difficult to see the difference. Anyway, what the hell do smart people know?
Mike

Hi guys thanks for to comments, Best off road and Duncs l tend to agree with what you've written my only other concern is vapouring the gas as the auto tank is liquid withdrawl. Mickhzz your mention of carbon monoxide is noted but with 2 of 3 appliances exhausting outside and the stove used rarely and the van being well vented l dont believe this to be a great concern. as l said early l have been using this gas in bottle form fill with auto gas for years already so l dont feel l am worried in that regard, the insurance l think will be an issue if l tell but at the same we are already carrying portable bottle on board with approval so you think one mounted securly under the van would be safer thanks again wil keep researching before l decide cheers

Best Off Road

I found another dodgy website for you "LPG Australia"

They say:

Safety, Standards and Regulations
LPG Australia is committed to maintaining and improving industry safety standards. Far more LPG Australia are not a certifying organisation but may endorse properly certified equipment which conforms to an Australian Standard.

LPGA Endorsed Equipment List 2008 - detailed information on a specific safety or technical issue, contact a Technical Manager at mail@alpga.asn.au .

LPGA Endorsed Equipment List September 2008 - LPG FOR HOUSEHOLD USE AND LPG FOR AUTO USE ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE.

There are two types of LPG commonly used in Australia. The traditional LPG used for heating and in barbecue bottles is propane. Domestic appliances and camping equipment are designed for this gas. The LPG used for vehicles generally consists of a mixture of propane and butane.

This "autogas" is dispensed at service stations and must not be used for domestic and leisure appliances. LPG has been used safely in Australia since before the Second World War.

Australian Standards for LPG equipment and appliances and for storage and handling are among the world's best. We can all continue to benefit from the convenience of LPG provided we:

- respect LPG as a concentrated form of energy;
- take care of our LPG equipment; and
- read safety information and adhere to Australian Standards and Codes of Practice."

Unfortunately, you have to shell out over a hundred bucks to see the relevant Australian Standard AS 5601.

So while you may save a couple of bucks a week by using auto gas, and there may well be different tax implications behind the different prices, I wouldn't dismiss the science from a position of ignorance. I'd hate to see you nominated for a Darwin award.

Yes well, that pretty well states the facts.

I think you've got it right Theo, let common sense prevail.

Some of our legislators are nothing more than underworked, overpaid, public servants who err on the side of caution, rather than really investigating the issues. Far easier to submit a standard that will cover their arse, than to do some real work and put out something useful that will benefit the public.

A BBQ or Gas Stove is a fairly crude device. It relies on a regulator and jet size. My BBQ at home runs off Natural Gas. This requires fitting jets with a slightly larger hole than for Propane and a different regulator. It's that simple. And the kit for home modification can be bought from any Hardware Store, no need to have a licensed gasfitter install it.

Now a modern, fuel injected (and when converted to injected LPG) petrol motor is a complex device by comparison. It can somehow run on any variety of gas and yet a basic old BBQ is specific fuel reliant? That beggars belief.

Jim.

Not much common sense in that. Adjusting from propane to natural gas is the exact opposite of using butane. Butane doesn't burn as easily or completely as propane, it's a bigger molecule. Natural gas is the lightest hydrocarbon so burns easily and completely. As for an LPG engine, I certainly wouldn't sit in a room with one running. They pump out a fair bit of carbon monoxide under the right conditions.
So the lazy boffins are saying don't use butane in domestic/enclosed situations, only use it in motors for cars where the dangerous gases can disperse? That seems like common sense to me.

What he said!