2 Stroke oil in diesel

Submitted: Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 16:34
ThreadID: 75509 Views:16011 Replies:15 FollowUps:32
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Hi all,
Happy Australia day to all.
I have been using 2 stroke oil (for water cooled 2 strokes) in the diesel at a rate of 200:1 for about 3 months and have noticed a big improvement in black soot on start up as the exhaust hits the back wall of my garage and is a lot cleaner than before. Also the engine runs smoother and quieter.
I found the idea on a Landrover freelander site and gave it ago.
The mix is not exact at each fill up but close.
Is anyone else doing it?

Ian
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Reply By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 16:39

Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 16:39
yep - have been adding it for about 3 months now.

Yes I seem to have noticed a difference. Quieter engine noise. Marginal fuel economy improvement.

I feel I am doing this for the future of the engine. Since they have removed the sulphur from diesel (which is the natural lubricant) your fuel injection system will be suffering from excessive wear.

Two stroke oil in the diesel will help lubricate the fuel injection system. It is designed to dissolve in fuel, lubricate moving parts, and burn cleanly.

David




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Reply By: escapesilv - Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 17:08

Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 17:08
Yes I have been using it in the business ute for 3/4 month, it only has 45000 Km. so I don't find any changes other than slightly quieter, but consider every moving part is getting the benefit.

Now, does it matter if it is 2 stroke for water or air cooled?

Cheers
Robert
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Follow Up By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 17:12

Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 17:12
http://www.freel2.com/forum/topic878.html

Not sure about all this??
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 20:39

Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 20:39
I read that it needs to be watwer cooled engine 2 stroke oil so that it is in engines of the same temp range. Air cooled 2 strokes run hotter I think.
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Follow Up By: Member - mazcan - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:36

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 12:36
hi
while at supercheap yesterday
i read the container advice on 3 brands of 2stroke oils and found that penrite/ ampol and castrol all have multi purpose use of there 2 st oils /can be used in both air and water cooled engines and the oil ratings were the same for each above brands - except - i bought the ampol racing grade as they claim it is for higher horepowered engines so for what it's worth
cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - mazcan - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 13:08

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 13:08
hi
sorry folks
a correction to above
it was valvoline racing oil
not
--ampol--
i addition despite valvoline claims that there oil is for higher hp engines they still charged the same as the other 2 brands $9.90 ltr and same specs jasco fc, api tc, iso gd.
but theres is especially recommended for higher hp engines under stressed conditions
so is it just word power play in advertising ????? how many times have we all been duped by this
cheers
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 14:06

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 14:06
Hi mazcan,
That Valvoline oil is the one I use.

I've found it at KMart for $7.50 a litre, big saving over what Super notso Cheap are charging!

Geoff

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Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 18:26

Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 18:26
Yes, I've been adding 1:200 of 2 stroke to the diesel tanks at every fill-up of "Nev" (Chev 6.5 V8 diesel in 2000 GU Patrol).

The main thing I have noticed is that it seems to run smoother and is quiter on start-up than it used to be. I can't say there has been any huge improvement in economy or power output, but I'm satisfied the benefits are there; even if it's just for the longevity of the injector pump.

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Member - John D, Wandong (Vic) - Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 19:31

Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 19:31
Roachie, would like to give this 2 stroke oil a go, what brand of oil are you and others using in your diesel, and does the ratio of 1:200 equate to approx 300ml of 2 stroke oil to a tank of diesel (70 ltrs) ?

Cheers,
John
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 21:45

Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 21:45
John, at the moment I'm just using some Mobil stuff I got from a local motor cycle place. Not sure of the exact name of it.

I will be trying to buy a 20 litre drum of the stuff when this current 4 litre drum is finished. This is the 2nd (of 2) of these 4 litre drums I bought. Before that I used Castrol 2T stuff.

I really don't think it makes a lot of difference what brand you use....any of them will have the same effect in my opinion.

Be aware that a lot of people report that they don't initially notice ANY difference, but after a couple of tanks full, you will see the difference.

Cheers

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 21:50

Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 21:50
Sorry, forgot to answer your question about the ratio......

If you had a 200 litre tank capacity (I actually have 256 litre capacity in my 2 tanks), then you would use 1 litre of 2 stroke.

So, for 70 litres you should use about 350ml of 2 stroke.

Basically, if you take the amount of diesel you've just added to your tank and divide it by 2 and divide by 100. So, 70 litres divided by 2 = 35 litres....then divide this by 100 (simply move the decimal point across 2 spaces), means you need to add 0.35 litres (or 350ml).

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 22:16

Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 22:16
Roachie and others,
try this price for 2 stroke oil.


http://www.gulfoil.com.au/[/url]
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 14:24

Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 14:24
Thanks Rockape,
That's a very good price for 2-Stoke oil, I'll give them a ring and see what they can do freight wise!

Geoff

Geoff,
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Follow Up By: Ozboc - Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 08:03

Friday, Jan 29, 2010 at 08:03
Roachie - were you recently at Braidwood NSW? with a bushranger caravan on back ?

seen one there a few weeks ago fitting the same description as your Patrol



Boc
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 09, 2010 at 19:31

Tuesday, Feb 09, 2010 at 19:31
No mate, although I did go through Braidwood the wednesday before Xmas and the wednesday after Xmas.....down and back on both occasions. But I was travelling bob-tail; camper was parked up and I was just taking SWMBO to Ulladulla and then went and picked her up again a week later.

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 09, 2010 at 19:32

Tuesday, Feb 09, 2010 at 19:32
No mate, although I did go through Braidwood the wednesday before Xmas and the wednesday after Xmas.....down and back on both occasions. But I was travelling bob-tail; camper was parked up and I was just taking SWMBO to Ulladulla and then went and picked her up again a week later.

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 09, 2010 at 19:32

Tuesday, Feb 09, 2010 at 19:32
No mate, although I did go through Braidwood the wednesday before Xmas and the wednesday after Xmas.....down and back on both occasions. But I was travelling bob-tail; camper was parked up and I was just taking SWMBO to Ulladulla and then went and picked her up again a week later.

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 09, 2010 at 19:32

Tuesday, Feb 09, 2010 at 19:32
No mate, although I did go through Braidwood the wednesday before Xmas and the wednesday after Xmas.....down and back on both occasions. But I was travelling bob-tail; camper was parked up and I was just taking SWMBO to Ulladulla and then went and picked her up again a week later.

Roachie
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Reply By: cruza25 - Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 19:28

Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 19:28
hi all

i read all about it and started using it 4 weeks ago in my 1HZ powered cruzer

i just bought the cheapest mineral 2stroke oil and added in the 200-1 ratio

so far it seems very good- quieter smoother more power and cleaner

my 1HZ has done 240000 and is 10 years old. Its never missed a beat and has never had any work done to it. oil and filter every 5000 and used in some pretty dusty places a lot of its life.

so far so good with the 2 stroke oil and i will continue to use it. Its very interesting reading all the good feedback- has anyone heard any negatives

i used to work building large marine and loco engines and

V16 compressors producing 8700 horsepower and these would run on most kinds of oil with the right viscosity so i cant see a bit of mineral oil doing any harm to a diesel engine

cheers

mike

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Reply By: gbc - Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 19:48

Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 19:48
I've been adding castrol 2t to my vcdi colorado for the last 45000 kms. Mainly for lubricity purposes, but she does run much quieter too. Been going on in Europe for 10 odd years, can't find a single engine failure related to it on the net.

From what I have read, the mineral low ash (cheaper) oils stay in suspension better than the synthetics do.
The reason for not using marine 2 stroke is that it has a dye in it so manufactures can check you've been using their oil come breakdown time. Not such a good idea in cars.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 19:53

Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 19:53
The dye is good for, 'did I, or didn't I add oil?'

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Reply By: ob - Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 22:46

Tuesday, Jan 26, 2010 at 22:46
Sounds like a very interesting idea. I am from a similar background to Cruza25 and as he has stated how can adding oil to diesel which is basically very light oil do any damage. My old low tech Cruiser will be getting a dose next fill.
The only situation I would be a little wary of is using the 2 stroke oil in one of the latest common rail systems. I have heard that the latest generation peizo operated injectors run pressures from 1300 to 2000 atmospheres and the injectors can spread the fuel delivery volume over as much as 10 events per compression stroke. I would be cautious of adding too large a dose of 2 stroke oil to one of these systems as the increased viscosity make cause damage if the fuel charge was altered from what these systems were designed for. Having said that I can't see any downside for older design engines.

Cheers ob

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Follow Up By: gbc - Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 20:00

Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 20:00
Most of the stuff I saw was on euro common rail cars (focus, golfs etc etc). I'm putting it in a CR motor - mind you I'm just a guinea pig with next to no mechanical expertise, but judging by the sheer weight of numbers of users through europe, I decided I should give it a go. So far so good.
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Reply By: Doncow - Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 00:04

Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 00:04
Why?
Diesel fuel is full of additives now
You think you know better than manufactures?
AnswerID: 401242

Follow Up By: ob - Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 00:16

Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 00:16
May I inquire if the vehicle you drive is a 2wd or a 4wd? If so is it exactly as the dealer sold it to you?
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Follow Up By: Doncow - Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 00:38

Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 00:38
4wd yes
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Follow Up By: ob - Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 00:53

Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 00:53
Fair enough, the reason I ask is that most, not all but most 4wd's I have seen and at my age and state of disillusionment that is quite a few have various accessories fitted even simple mods such as better tyres.
Any car maker has to manufacture a vehicle with one eye on performance and the other on price. This being the case I don't think it is a matter of knowing better than the maker but rather a case of finding a better way to solve any shortcomings dictated by the dreaded cost factor. Sure diesel fuel is full of various additives and fuel available for extreme climatic conditions of for instance extremes of cold have additions to combat "jellying" at this low ambient. Why not make all fuel the same? Simply because it is not needed everywhere and adds unnescessary cost. Fuel is after all just another product and has to compete with rivals.

Cheers ob
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 10:30

Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 10:30
Also, it's not so much a case of what modern diesel fuel does have in it. It is more a case of what it DOES NOT have in it.

The boffins decided several years ago that the percentage of sulphur content in diesel fuel needed to be reduced from (I think) 5000ppm to 50ppm. This was for pollution reduction purposes.

Okay, so new diesel engines have been built with this level of spec in mind.

However, older diesel engines (eg: my dinosaur 6.5 Chev V8) NEED the extra lubrication which the older-spec diesel fuel provided. Without it, they have a tendancy to wear-out rubber seals etc in the injector pump as well as the fact that the injectors and top end of the engine relied on the extra lubricity of the old fashioned diesel fuel.

Adding the 2 stroke oil to the diesel puts the fuel back to somewhere near being what it was before.

Roachie
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Follow Up By: trainslux - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 09:20

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 09:20
Hey Roachie,
They test all fuel for lubricity, and even tho they have now reduced the amount of sulphur in the fuel, they still add whatever they add to bring its lubricity rating to what is was before.
Spoke at length to a BP chap a while back regarding this and a few other things.

I also use 2T 2 stroke at 200:1, and get better mileage, reduced noise, etc.
Word of warning, use the mineral 2 stroke, not the synthetic one.
The synthetic 2 stroke dosent stay mixed like the mineral oil.

Cheers

Trains
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Reply By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 10:58

Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 10:58
I've been doing the same thing in my Landcruiser for about the same period of time, only difference is I'm running it at 300:1. (300ml to a 90L tank)

I have a spreadsheet I log every single fill into. At the time of adding the 2 Stroke oil I added some extra columns to monitor the fuel useage before and after the addition of 2 Stroke oil.

So far there has been a small reduction in the amount of fuel used. Three months really isn't a decent test as the before data was collected over about 3 1/2 years.

I'm using the cheapest Valvoline mineral 2 Stroke I can get from K-Mart, about $7.50 a litre. (Super Cheap want $9.99 a litre for the same stuff!)

So far I'm happy with the results.

Geoff

Geoff,
Landcruiser HDJ78,
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Follow Up By: Member - mazcan - Tuesday, Feb 09, 2010 at 16:19

Tuesday, Feb 09, 2010 at 16:19
hi folks
well i added the valvolene 2st racing oil $9.90ltr to my vw 1.9ltr diesel common rail injection engine
last sunday and have now done nearly 500km's
most of that towing a 6x4 trailer to perth and back

and while there shifted my daughters and son in laws furniture to another rental clocked up 150km doing that and pulled some heavy loads with ease
car loaded as well each trip did 16 loads had power to boot in the traffic

the vw is running much smoother and is now exceptionly quiet
particularly noticable on start-up it also has more power

as far as fuel consumption goes i'm reserving any comments about that until i do a couple of trips with/out a trailer in tow for a more accurate comparison

the most impressive thing i have noticed is >

that after idling at the traffic lights for long periods before adding the 2 stroke oil

it would puff out a cloud of grey ash/dust from the cat convertor as i accellerated away from the lights

this was a regular thing in city traffic or after stopping at the first set of lights after a long road drive and idling for a period then taking off

that grey ash /dust is totally absent now not a sign of it

i'm impressed enough to continue the use of the 2st oil additive in the diesel fuel tank and confident that it is going to be benificial to the engine ( having read all the forums and blogs on it) not only now but in the long term

as an ex -farmer i have tried just about every additive that has come on the market over the years in various engines types

i can honestly say i have never been this impressed after trying something out

in the longer term only time will tell but it's all positive for me and will be keeping a watch

i already have fuel figures for the entire use of the vehicle since new 2005 now done 75000+ km's so will soon know if there is any change in fuel consumption down the track one way or other the vw is out of warranty so i carry the- can-!

cant buy the 2 stroke in wa as cheap as you guys are getting it in the east even at k-mart

so be it
cheers

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Reply By: Member - MUZBRY(Vic) - Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 16:52

Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 16:52
Gday
I have been using 2 stroke in my motors since before it was popular. About 49 yrs, since my first car. I have no idea if it works or not, but it keeps me happy with the upper cylinder lube. Now that we have "petrol" that has no lube , it is possibly doing some good.The amount I put in the tank relates to the amount of money in my pocket .
Murray
Muzbry
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Reply By: StormyKnight - Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 18:23

Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 18:23
My only concern would be perhaps the seperation of the oil from the fuel if the vehicle is left standing for a while. A mower repair shop I know used to recover some 2 stroke fuel from dead mowers & sit it on a shelf for a while. Over time (not sure how long), the oil would seperate from the fuel...if it had oil in it in the first place :)

Thoughts?
AnswerID: 401342

Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 18:55

Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 18:55
Hi SK,
Firstly, "2-stroke oil will be absorbed by the diesel by forming an emulsion, which will not seperate."

It's different process from mixing with petrol. The other thing that happens with petrol and oil is evaporation. The petrol is more volatile than diesel and most of what you saw is certainly 2 stroke oil but also a great deal of the heavier components of the petrol that haven't evaporated as fast as the more volatile components.

There is plenty of information on the web pertaining to the subject. One of the best resources I found is this thread on a UK Freelander forum: 2 Stroke in Diesel

It's good mainly because the relevant information is in one place.

Geoff

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Follow Up By: StormyKnight - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 21:48

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 21:48
Thanks I appreciate the link :)
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Follow Up By: trainslux - Tuesday, Feb 09, 2010 at 18:15

Tuesday, Feb 09, 2010 at 18:15
If you use mineral oil, it will not seperate.
There are known issues of oil seperation when using synthetic 2 stroke in diesel.

Google it.

Trains
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Reply By: howesy - Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 19:18

Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 19:18
I go 250ml per 80lt tank (roughly 350:1) been doin it for a while abd she aint blown up yet.
1HZ boosting 11psi (420,000km)
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Follow Up By: howesy - Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 19:19

Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 19:19
That should read 90lt tank. (bloody keyboard has a mind of its own)
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Reply By: Member - Geoff the chef (NSW)M - Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 19:47

Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 19:47
hi all,
i have been using 2 stroke in the patrol for about 18 months or so and have found no negatives. the engine runs smoother and quieter. the reason i started using 2 stroke was that the fuel shut off would stick some times and the patrol would sit there shuddering for a moment before stopping.
in a previous life i was a diesel mechanic for a shipping company, and we added mineral oil to the fuel for all small diesel engines.
it will not harm the engine.
cheers, Geoff
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Follow Up By: robb1964 - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 00:17

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 00:17
Hi Geoff

What motor is in your patrol?

I have 2004 3.0ltr with 140,000 km and no issues to date, what are your thoughts and others regarding using 2 stroke oil in my motor?

Cheers

Rob
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Follow Up By: Member - Geoff the chef (NSW)M - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 19:36

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 19:36
hi Robb , i bought a 2001 gu patrol new in 2001. A mate had a 2000 model which turned out to be a lemon from day 1. All newer diesel engines are built for a lower top endlub system from the fuel they use. I would try using 2 stroke oil for .....say 2 refuels and just see if there is any change. The 3 lt motor is a noisey 4 cyl motor and it is prob due to the emission gear involved. The issue is not really with the motor , but with the fuel that is being sold these days

Give it a go as more oil in the fuel will not hurt it.
Cheers Geoff
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Follow Up By: robb1964 - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 21:03

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 21:03
Hi Geoff,

Thanks for the info, was just abit nervous about putting oil in the fuel tank as this motor to replace would be quite abit. When I had a L/cruiser 60 Series even using quality oil and 5000km intervals there was always sludge when I changed the motor oil so I put diesel in the oil filler and ran around town for 30mins then dropped the oil........omg that really got the sludge out so re-filled with new oil ran around for a week then dropped oil again and still more sludge came out. I purchased that non-turbo vehicle with 198,000 km and then fitted a turbo soon after, I owned until it was stolen with 380,000km and no problems with the motor.

Cheers Rob
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Reply By: Outbacktourer - Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 20:05

Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 20:05
At the risk of going slightly OT, I remember someone told me he added a "glug" of ATF to a tank with good results, anyone heard of this?

OBT
AnswerID: 401368

Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 20:12

Wednesday, Jan 27, 2010 at 20:12
Now you mention it, I have a dim distant memory of the subject!

I guess it is somewhat similar as ATF does have lubricating properties as well as hydraulic properties.

My thoughts are 2 Stroke oil is designed to be combusted where ATF is designed to have a certain resistance to high temperatures.

Geoff

Geoff,
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Reply By: Member - Geoff the chef (NSW)M - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 19:49

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 19:49
Hi All, ATF (automatic trans fluid) is an old remedy for dirty injectors.....it works , dont be afraid to use it. I will let someone else go into the tech side of this one as im almost ready for bed. Changes the burn rate ..... at the tip.
Also it is a good idea to geyt thetips o0n injectors checked.
bed time..
Cheers Geoff
AnswerID: 401516

Follow Up By: bbuzz - Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 22:35

Thursday, Jan 28, 2010 at 22:35
I have a 1984 HJ60 with 375,000 kms. Third owner. All of us have been using an additive similar to Chemtech Diesel Power for the vehicle's life. Its in a yellow bottle. Doseage about 1 ml for a litre of fuel.
Not sure if this gives the same result as the 2 stroke or the ATF. The bottle says it will do wonderful things.
Anyone else been using this additive?
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Reply By: Member - Patrick (QLD) - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 15:27

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 15:27
Well after reading all the positive replies to thread I have decided to give it a try so just filled the Patrol and added the 2 litre oil to the mix. I will be interested in seeing how I go.

On Saturday I am driving from Brisbane to Marybough to see some friends so it will give the motor a good chance to run the fuel through.

Just as a note, I picked up a 1 litre bottle of 2-stroke from the local Woolworths for $8.80. Not bad when Mobil wanted $14.99 for the same thing.



AnswerID: 403777

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