Spotlights on Rollbar

Have a mate with a crewman ute all dressed up like a lads car, ie big bull bar with bull lamps and three bull lamps on rollbar above the roof. He bought it this way as it was a reps car used for long distance travel to Broken Hill and other remote towns.
The other week he was pulled up for speeding (116 in 110 zone) Officer was nice enough to let him off and said nothing about the lights.

Was pulled up Friday different officer and got a warning about the lights above the roof saying that the legislation had changed in December stating no lights allowed above the roof anymore. Would be booked and defected if seen with them on there again by any patrol that pulls him up even if it was on his way home that day. He was 200km from home.

I have not heard of this until mow just wondering if anyone else new about this rule?

Cheers Matt
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Reply By: olcoolone - Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 19:50

Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 19:50
I would challenge him on that, the current model R series Scania trucks have them and if it was illegal Scania would remove them.
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Follow Up By: Member - The Bushwhackers -NSW - Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 20:15

Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 20:15
Thats interesting, about the Scania.

Son-in-law is Highway Patrol (NSW), and I'm sure he told me that no lights above 1200mm from ground level was the rule.

Maybe different allowances and other rules for heavy vehicles?

Will quiz him again, next time I see him.

Cheers, Dave



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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew L (QLD) - Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 20:24

Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 20:24
If they are OEM fitted, then thats ok.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 20:28

Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 20:28
But OEM still has to meet Australian Road Rules.

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Reply By: Mick O - Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 19:54

Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 19:54
Unless somethings changed in the last few years, I thought they've always been illegal above the roof in Victoria. I got warned at Ouyen in 1981 for having two on the rollbar of the kingcab. Struth they'd have a field day at the Denni ute muster or any B&S for that matter.

Cheers Mick
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Follow Up By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 20:00

Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 20:00
Call them work lights and all will be good LOL


Cheers Kev
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Reply By: charlie brown - Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 20:19

Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 20:19
had a canary pot on my rodeo back in 96 for this reason in vic
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Reply By: Member - Andrew L (QLD) - Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 20:28

Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 20:28
Have a read here fella's...

http://www.fordtorque.com/forum/showthread.php/lights-adr-and-43.html?s=4e4ab0126c98f827971b8255d34d41f5&

..and..

"AUXILIARY MAIN-BEAM (DRIVING) LIGHTS
Two or four (they must be fitted in pairs) auxiliary main-beam lights may be fitted provided the maximum number of all main-beam lights does not exceed six. All other requirements of main-beam lights including their electrical connections and maximum intensity must be met."

You will also find they have a maximum allowable height of 1200mm on a passenger/light commercial vehicle.

Check your ADR's.

AnswerID: 403162

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 15:44

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 15:44
NSW go the paired set up too ....

Typical beaurocracy ... Ive always found two wide spread and one spot beam is a great light combo ... so Ive always gone without ... or wasted money on an extra light to be legal ......
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Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 21:10

Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 21:10
Gday,
I was under the impression it always was illegal to have lights mounted above the standard height.
In saying that, I've got a set of Hella Jumbo's mounted on my roof rack facing backwards and have never been questioned about them?
I suppose each State is different too.......

Cheers
Hairy
AnswerID: 403168

Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh (NSW) - Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 21:42

Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 21:42
Hi mate,
Hmm, around our parts there is a hell of a lot of Pig Hunters, all with the big Bull lights mounted on the roof bars as well as the one big light that is movable from inside the cab..
One hunters brother in-law is a NSW H/Way patrolman. He's never been questioned for it or the work lights on the back of the rack/cage.
His Hilux dual cab only past through a rego check last week.
No questions asked.
I guess it must be in the 'interpretation' of the law.
In 4 years I've past countless H/way patrols and only ever had one pull me over and question my Hilift jack on the front bullbar.
I asked why he wasn't pulling fisherman over for having rod holders that protruded out in front of their bullbars. He choose to ignore that comment, gave back my license and continued on his way.

Hmmm



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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 09:17

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 09:17
I have got my r/rack lights on a seperate switch and figure that unless I am actually caught using them on the highway then how can I be fined for it? Surely there is no law against using them on private property? I absolutely am cautious where they are turned on, the conditions and traffic are very much taken into consideration before I flick the switch and light em up.

Trevor.
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 11:01

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 11:01
G'day Trevor,

I don't have roof lights at the moment, but have brackets there ready to install a set if I decide to do so.

I have heard that they are illegal even if they don't have any wiring going to them!!! Of course, that is only from a friend of a neighbours cousin who heard that someone was talking about it at the barber shop type of story... hahaha

If/when I do re-install a set on the roof, I'm going to try and rig-up a system whereby the lights can be tilted down by 90 degrees so they are facing the roof when not in use. This will be less likely to draw attention.

The set-up I've seen on a lot of the comp trucks utilises a pivoting bar that holds the lights, operated by an air ram. When you flick the lights ON, it also operates the air ram, which quickly moves the light bar through 90 degrees as well, so the lights are on target. Switching them OFF, means the bar goes back 90 degrees to it's resting position. On these comp trucks, it's more about protecting the lights from branches etc rather than the cops.

There is a bloke who sells these set-ups commercially:

Big O 4x4 accessories.

No idea on price, but they look like excellent quality, so I'm guessing they wouldn't be cheap.

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 19:15

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 19:15
From the pics, I reckon your guess would be pretty well correct. Big $$$$$$$$$$$. Off topic but I tell you what, their dual tyre rear bar is cheap if I read right, in amongst their custom parts section.

Trevor.
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Reply By: Happy Frank - Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 21:56

Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 21:56
The Aust vehicle standards require white lights to only be fitted to the front of a vehicle. On a cabover truck such as the Scania, above the windscreen is still on the front. On a bonnetted car or ute, on the roll bar behind the cab is not on the front.
AnswerID: 403176

Reply By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 22:38

Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 22:38
I'm sure one of the Jeep models had lights up near the top of the windscreen pillars, were sold in Australia with them,
I will see if I can find a photo.

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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew (QLD) - Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 22:54

Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 22:54
Tombraider comes to mind Doug. ;)

Andrew
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Follow Up By: Ozhumvee - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 08:16

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 08:16
Yes they did doug and weren't sold here for quite a while to legalities with the lights were sorted out. They were in little pods in the front of the built in roofrack.
I think in the end Jeep had to disconnect them from memory but could be wrong.
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 10:48

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 10:48
I see one of these in our local Woolies staff car park nearly every day. But I don't know who owns it and haven't seen it on the road at night.

I seem to recall reading somewhere several years ago, that Jeep overcame the "problem" here by putting much lower wattage globes in the roof-mounted lights....something like 35w from memory. Of course, it wouldn't be difficult to re-fit larger globes later on.

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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 15:41

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 15:41
nissan x-trail too going by the one I saw the other day .
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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 22:42

Sunday, Feb 07, 2010 at 22:42
DIO would be able to tell us I'm sure :-)

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Reply By: Shaker - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 00:10

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 00:10
I was told roof lights must have covers fitted while on the road.
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Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 07:46

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 07:46
The lights on Jeeps are apparently only low power and I believe they are classed as marker lights.

Lights mounted above the cab are not permitted to be used on road, in Qld at least anyway.

But then neither are wbleeper lights and we all know about them.



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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 10:51

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 10:51
What is a "wbleeper" light Graham? Could you spell it out with a space between each letter please?
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Follow Up By: Member - Timbo - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 14:11

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 14:11
I think he means fog lamps...
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 16:10

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 16:10
I stutter and we arent allowed to use the first letter and the last with ***** in the midle anymore.

so I meant w r lights.

LOL
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Follow Up By: oldfart1953 - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 18:40

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 18:40
No I think its his Kiwi accent
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Reply By: landed eagle - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 09:04

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 09:04
Pulled up twice in a short period of time?........maybe he needs to stop drawing attention to himself?
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 09:21

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 09:21
We were all young once, I remember one week down near Cooma where I was booked 4 times in the same week. If you can call it luck, I was lucky I had a qld liscence and the points didn't carry on interstate liscence back then or it would have been curtains for me and my driving for a while.

Trevor.
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Reply By: sweetwill - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 11:05

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 11:05
hi malleev.
I own a BNS ute with 3 large narva bull lights on the sports bar and 2 lightforce on the 5 post bull bar also 4" side skirts,all have been on the ute for 12 months, then last oct,. the ute was defected for the lights, side skirts to wide and sharp, oh it also has mudflaps they were to low, the wheels weren't standard so he questioned them. As most of you reading this have 4/4s and love them, so do i love my ute, So down to the RTA I'm in NSW. he was very helpful, but could not say what was legal and what wasn't except the mud flaps had to be 100mm of the ground, so of to an engineer he went over the ute then told me the skirts had to be cut down to 3" and pinch pleat put on the sharp edges, the 5 post bull bar was legal it didn't have any sharp edges and all the aerial, and light tabs were backward facing, the lights on the sports bar were legal as they were all connected to a separate switch that worked independently of the ute lights, the 18"rims and tyres were OK as they were stronger than the standard and i had to cut the mud flaps front and back 100mm of the ground, the side skirts did protrude past the ute body by 1" till they were cut back. Once the work was done he gave me a certificate then it was to get a blue slip "same as over the pit inspection" then down to the RTA with the paper work so now it is all legal and noted, the engineer told me now when the police see me they type my rego no into there computer and it will come up as engineered with the modifications. cost $250 engineer $100 blue slip RTA free I'm a pensioner, peas of mind when I'm followed bloody brilliant I hope this helps cheers bill.
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 12:25

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 12:25
That's a great outcome for you mate.

The thing I find funny about this sort of thing though is that, as you say, the cops can now type your rego into their puter and it comes back saying that your rig is "engineered".

Now, my evil mind says to me that you could (if you wanted to), do some other slight modifications to your rig now and although they haven't been engineered specifically, you might get away with them because the copper looks at his puter and it says she's all legit, so he thinks to himself..."not worth pulling that bloke over cos he's been through the hoops with engineering" etc etc. As an example, lets say you decided to put the 4" skirts back on (in place of the 3" skirts). The copper would have to have a pretty keen eye to see from a distance that your rig is engineered for 3" skirts but you've gone and whacked 4" skirts back on it etc etc.....



Roachie
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 19:05

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 19:05
Actually the thing I find funny Roachie is that sweetwill Bill is a pensioner needing a "BNS" ute. Keep it up sweetwill Bill, love your style LOL!!!

Trevor.
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 19:17

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 19:17
sweetwill, I was just having a dig mate. Thanks for the sound advice, I agree that peace of mind is cheap at that price.

Trevor.
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Reply By: OzTroopy - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 12:42

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 12:42
And the reality of all this is that ....

If they are illegal to use on a public road ....

Then one should receive a fine for USING THEM ON A PUBLIC ROAD .... not just because they happen to be mounted on the vehicle.

Had this issue with qld police years ago .... with a very satisfactory outcome - after writing to the relevant heads of departments.

AnswerID: 403250

Follow Up By: Rob! - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 16:03

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 16:03
I think you will find that the law states that cars will illigal mods can't be used on public roads. o matter whether those nods are being used at the time. One would imagine the law is such because people DO use their lights, etc. on public roads being a niusence to other drivers.
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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Tuesday, Feb 09, 2010 at 00:41

Tuesday, Feb 09, 2010 at 00:41
" One would imagine the law is such because people DO use their lights, etc. on public roads being a niusence to other drivers. "

I agree completely ..... and laws are constantly being rewritten ambiguously so as ensure the guilt of vehicle owners/drivers.

The reason being ... Its much easier to corral a bunch of vehicles on the side of the road and issue "what if" infringements ... rather than provide active policing which deals with that minority of drivers doing the wrong thing and who make the legitimate and sensible use of previously non illegal modifications impossible, for the rest of us.

In my case I was lucky that the old qld regs actually specified a light projection distance on a public road .... and the good constable wasnt willing to perjure himself in court and state that the lights were on.
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Reply By: Member - Timbo - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 14:16

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 14:16
I'd always heard it was illegal to have spot/driving lights mounted anywhere above the level of the bottom of the windscreen - the reason being that when approaching an oncoming vehicle over a crest, you're not going to see him until long after he's been dazzled by your high mounted lights.

Having said that, I've seen quite a few vehicles with high-mounted spot/driving lamps but never heard of someone being pulled over for it - until now.
AnswerID: 403261

Reply By: Member - Noel K (NT) - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 14:20

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 14:20
Hey Malleerv,
In the NT it is illegal to have lights above 1.200mm.The reasoning is, that lights on your roof for example, can be blinding an on coming car over a hill before you pick up their standard lights and dip.(As told to me by NT motor rego)

Noel K.
AnswerID: 403262

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 21:19

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 21:19
Gday Noel,
I thought the same.
I have them mounted on my roof rack ( facing backwards ) but I always have the cover on them unless Im out bush and have them on a separate switch.
Ive never been questioned about them.

Cheers
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Reply By: Malleerv - Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 23:29

Monday, Feb 08, 2010 at 23:29
Thanks for all the reply's. I was looking for something in the ADR's but it was getting too difficult to navigate though all the BS.
We have removed the lights now just to be safe. The ute looks better now anyway, before it looked like a hoons ute all it needed was a W....r arial on the front to complete the package.

Thanks again for your advive and safe travels all.

Cheers Matt
AnswerID: 403347

Reply By: Tim - Tuesday, Feb 09, 2010 at 22:45

Tuesday, Feb 09, 2010 at 22:45
The law comes from Schedule 4 of the Road Transport (Vehicle Registration) Regulation, in NSW anyway.
Max of 6 forward projecting lights, max of 1200mm off the ground and all lights must be equal on both sides (even number of lights). Clearance lights have limitations on there wattage (pos 14W?). "Work" lights like the hella ones can be fitted as well but must switch independently.
I won't go through everything, have a read yourselves. Unfortunately the entire schedule is not online, if you are that keen to read it you may have to purchase a Britts traffic law book.
Tim
AnswerID: 403499

Follow Up By: Member - Wayne B (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 01:08

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 01:08
Several years ago I was driving my rally car in Victoria. Vic Rules stated a max of 4 forward facing while NSW had 6.

I was stopped by an officer because I had 6 lights, I pulled the covers off the two lower ones to show him they had no reflectors or bulbs fitted. The Light backing and plastic cover were only on there to fill up the holes in the bumper and for advertising my sponsor. (The covers had their name on them)

He still gave me a ticket. I wrote a letter to the authorities advising of the above and never heard anymore, never payed the fine either.

Having no reflector or bulb excluded then from the definition of a light. However a complete light with no electrical wiring is still defined as a light, working or not.

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Follow Up By: sweetwill - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:27

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:27
hi all.
you can tell by the above comments why I paid the $250 to an engineer who also happens to be an expert witness for the RTA, Wouldn't you think it would be all written down so we wouldn't rely on hearsay ect,ect. by for now bill.
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