Engine wear

Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 04:43
ThreadID: 75915 Views:3323 Replies:16 FollowUps:6
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Hi all

I recently heard a ripper arguement over the pros/cons off warming a vehicle up before heading off in the morning. Its something i have always done, but they reckon a cold motor is the main cause of engine wear, and its better to jump straight in and drive off to get it up to normal temp.

I would have thought it better to let the oil pump around motor slowly while cold, without placing any stress on it. Of course you dont jump in and rev its guts out. But i know i dont like to get straight out of bed and into it, i enjoy a little idling first myself, but im not a car so i wouldnt know.

Who here warms there car up first?

Any difference between diesel/petrol/gas?

Interested in your views

Cheers
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Reply By: Injected - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 05:56

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 05:56
I thought i was the only crazy one up at this time of day, hang on... im on night shift..OK then.
I have a diesel and yes I let it warm up with idle only.
Have a good one.
AnswerID: 403523

Reply By: Member - Kiwi Kia - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 07:10

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 07:10
Oil pressure should rise within 30 seconds.

If you can open the throttle smoothly and the engine doesn't hiccup then you can drive away.

KK
AnswerID: 403525

Reply By: Bob of KAOS - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 07:12

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 07:12
How about warming it up as you drive?

Saves fuel and is less annoying to neighbours.
AnswerID: 403526

Reply By: Rockape - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 07:21

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 07:21
I just drive off and keep the revs below 2000 till the temp comes up.

Old school was leave it idling for 5mins.

If I have just worked the engine hard I let her cool off for 5 mins.

Have a good one
AnswerID: 403528

Reply By: Member - TonBon (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 07:50

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 07:50
When i bought Miss Turtle, both the dealer and my mechanic advised not to sit idle to warm it up. I also asked my father who drives semi's for a living and he said the same thing. He has a 2 year old Volvo 550 and Volvo told him the same thing, after the air comes up, drive off. The reason apparently is that letting it sit idling to warm up heats various parts of the engine up faster than others whilst other parts stay relativley cold causing heat inconsistancy throughout the engine/drive train.
AnswerID: 403530

Reply By: Willem - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 07:57

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 07:57
I wait till the oil light goes out and then drive off...about 3 seconds.

Diesel has 393,000 on the clock and going strong.

Maybe warming it up was something you had to with engines built up to the 1970's but as technology improved and better metals were sourced for components, engine wear has become less of an issue.

Idling your diesel at home or in caravan parks is most annoying to neighbours especially in the early morning, and it is also pumping extra pollution into the atmosphere unneccessarily

AnswerID: 403532

Follow Up By: Bomber_WA - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 08:54

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 08:54
I agree. Warming up is something of the past. These new engines do not need warming up.

The same as the new turbos don't need winding down...
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FollowupID: 673032

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 16:10

Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 16:10
G'day Willie and Bomber..... Bomber makes a good point when he says: "These new engines do not need warming up"........ The emphasis being on "NEW ENGINES".

So, the question must be asked... What about the older style indirect injection diesels, like my old fashioned 6.5 Chev V8 and even (dare i say) the venerable 4.2 in Willie's GQ?

I know that my engine sounds pretty average when I first start it; especially if it hasn't been started for a week or so. It needs time to get oil to the top end. I've often thought of fitting one of these: Pre-lube
I believe they would be a great investment in the engine's longevity....the worst thing you can do to an engine is START it up!!!! hahahaha

Roachie
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FollowupID: 673540

Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 16:13

Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 16:13
Engines are still assembled with 'tolerances' to allow for the different expansion rate of varying metals, this means that at operating temperatures the clearances are at their most efficient!



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FollowupID: 673542

Reply By: Member - Oldplodder (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 09:19

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 09:19
As every one above posted, drive soon, but with gentle throttle.

Start the engine, put on seat belt, glasses etc, check gauges to see all up to pressure etc, then off.

Luckily I have a house near the top of a hill, so I only drive on gentle throttle settings for the first kilometre or so. If I had to go up hill and push the motor a bit harder, might hold it on 1500 rpm for 30 seconds or so before going.

Same when travelling, stick under 80km/hr for the first 3 to 5k of the morning until water temp comes up to normal setting. Reckon it takes about 30 mins before everything warmed up gearbox, diffs etc.
AnswerID: 403540

Follow Up By: Member - Kevin B1 (WA) - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 11:40

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 11:40
Most engine wear occurs when the engine is cold. It is not necessary to leave the engine idling as oil pump pressure is directly related to engine revs. If you are at idle then the oil pressure is low also. Just drive away slowly and take it easy until the engine is at operating temp, that is my advice as a diesel mechanic.
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FollowupID: 673064

Reply By: Member -Tukka (WA) - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 13:17

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 13:17
G'day muntoo

When i jump in my kroozer i try warm it up a bit, im always telling 'the boss' to warm it up before she drives off but you know what they are like they dont like to listen, just jump in and zoom off.


Cheers

AnswerID: 403590

Follow Up By: Muntoo - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 23:49

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 23:49
That old thing of yours wouldnt have a turbo. Moses hadnt invented them back then. Ha Ha

Or have you got the missus hair dryer bolted to the donk?
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FollowupID: 673248

Follow Up By: Member -Tukka (WA) - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:06

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:06
You didnt say anything about turbos Muntoo
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FollowupID: 673305

Reply By: Member - Timbo - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 13:47

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 13:47
A couple of mechanics have said it's pointless idling to warm up the engine because at idle, the engine is not working hard enough to warm up to proper operating temperature anyway.

The owner's manual for my Holden Jackaroo specifically recommended against idling to warm up the engine and suggested just driving gently until the engine reached operating temperature. I sold it at the end of 2008 with 396,000km on it and it had only just started needing oil top-ups between 10,000km services (V6 petrol engine).

Additionally, if you have a modern diesel (Euro compliant) you might be interested to hear that when the coach co. I work for purchased some new Volvos, drivers were advised not to leave them idling for more than 5min at any time (unless absolutely necessary - ie. to run a/c for passengers) because new Euro emissions requirements means that the engine will consume huge amounts of fuel while idling. Why? Because Euro standards measure "nasties" in ppm (parts per million). An engine runs most inefficiently at idle so about the only way you can reduce the ppm of nasties is to pump out a few million more of the no-quite-so-nasties that Euro standards don't test for. You've only lowered the concentration of the nasties, but not the actual amount that is actually put into the air...
AnswerID: 403597

Reply By: Member - Barry (NT) - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 15:21

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 15:21
drive off is preferred overall IMHO

I worked on gen sets years ago Deutz and GM mostly and they got thousands of hours up cold start to full load very quickly when on stanbdy

Toyota also recomment drive off

agree with Willem, oil light off drive off normally

one theory I was taught yeras ago was that the rings need the compression behind them to seal effectively (prevents excess soot at cold idle going into oil) and scrape cylinder walls

leaving the 4.2 Toyota to idle from cold will never get warm quickly even on 30C morning
AnswerID: 403629

Reply By: Tonyfish#58 - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 17:24

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 17:24
One thing not said to date - There are some great additives for the motor that help with minimizing wear at start-up.

If you are worried about it - Throw some of that stuff in - turn the key and get going. :-)

Cheers
AnswerID: 403648

Reply By: Muntoo - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 23:51

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 23:51
Sweet, i guess that about settles it then.



AnswerID: 403709

Reply By: cycadcenter - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 14:20

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 14:20
This is why you don't let your truck idle in California

California truck idle laws

Bruce
AnswerID: 403772

Reply By: Member - Lotzi (QLD) - Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 15:00

Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 15:00
Hi Muntoo

Quite a few years ago I did a course with either Detroit or Mercedes, the question was asked about warming up an engine and wear, the response was that todays engine oils are formulated to allow for cold start.

Bit hard for me, from the old school, but was convinced by a series 60 Detroit engine tear down for wear inspection, at 1000 000 ks, no wear, they just put it back together and sent it on its way.

Cheers

AnswerID: 403916

Reply By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 16:25

Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 16:25
Back when Collyn Rivers used to post on this site he told of his days at the GMH research facility and their testing on this subject.

I can't remember the exact results on wear rates but the conclusion was to get in, start up and drive off sedately after the oil presure had risen.

Don't go hard or fast until the engine warms up.

His thoughts on the subject will be in the Archives of this site somewhere!

Geoff

Geoff,
Landcruiser HDJ78,
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AnswerID: 403926

Reply By: landseka - Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 18:01

Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 18:01
I remember someone years ago (no not me :) ) in the old grey motor holden days. His dad told him to always warm the motor before driving off.

What did he do?

Start it up then rev the box off it to get it "warm" as quickly as possible! lmao

Must have been the wrong thing to do cos it leaked oil!

Cheers Neil
AnswerID: 403935

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