Frontera and ethanol

Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 22:47
ThreadID: 75939 Views:3890 Replies:12 FollowUps:11
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Hey all....I'm looking at buyin my first fourby and have found a 2002 Holden Frontera at a bargain price. I have heard and read that they are very thirsty which is ok, but I test drove one today and the owner said he had filled it up with e10 and that affects the way it drives. It was driving a bit lumpy low in the rev range when accelerating....would ethanol cause this???

Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Andrew L (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 22:57

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 22:57
So.....why do you think its at a bargain price..?

If thats what E10 does to it, and he is aware thats what it does to it,...why did he fill it up with it..?

E10 does decrase fuel efficiency by up to 10%, but should'nt make it "la bit umpy low in the rev range"...

...sounds like it is missing a bit..a cylinder is not firing occasionally under load....

I'd be steering well clear of it just due to what the owner said about the E10 and that it is "a bit lumpy low in the rev range"..and his cover for that.

You also need to get yourself a mechanical friend to start sorting the chaff from the weeds in the vehicles you look at, then when he has narrowed the field down and you have 1 or 2 acceptable vehicle/s, have them independantly checked by RACQ/RACV/NRMA.
AnswerID: 403699

Reply By: Member - Tony V (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 23:16

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 23:16
Just a thought on E10.

Standard 91 RON unleaded will be phased out in 2011 in NSW (and many other states).

If you have a an unleaded vehicle Check vehicle here

If you have a pre 2004 petrol Nissan its bad news for you...

AnswerID: 403703

Follow Up By: dbish - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 23:52

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 23:52
Tony , Basicly crap fuel wont be using it in any of my outboards or vehicles. there is talk about droping ordinary ULP & only suplying Premium ULP. Daryl
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Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:48

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:48
Been running E10 on occasions through 2003 Nissan Xtrail engine with no ill effects or loss of power or increase in consumption. But most of the running is long distance with limited stop start driving.Dunno if that could be a factor.





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Reply By: myfirstfourby - Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 23:55

Wednesday, Feb 10, 2010 at 23:55
Thanks for that so far guys. from my experience in other cars it does feel as if it's skipping on a cylinder a bit. As for the price it's not ridiculous. I have negotiated to what I feel is a bargain for that car because the guy can't take it with him because he is moving for work, company car etc. But u never know if it's the truth or not. And I would never buy a car without the full inspection first, which I am asking them to pay particular attention to that issue. Any other suggestions on what the issue could be?
AnswerID: 403710

Reply By: Isuzumu - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 07:44

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 07:44
Thttp://forum.australia4wd.com/index.php?showforum=18 ry this site and go to Jacaroo, Frontera and Rodeo Owners Group

Cheers Bruce
D.Max and Jayco Outback

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Reply By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 09:59

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 09:59
I assume you are talking of the 3.5 V6 motor, & yes they can be thirsty if driven
enthusiastically. I can get around 12L/100 locally (country) if driven under 100 kph. Get 15L/100 towing a C/t,all in the heavier Jackaroo, auto. I would be very
wary of rough running & doubt E10 has anything to do with it. If you like it, get it
inspected properly. Could be serious or maybe just needs a tune......oldbaz.
AnswerID: 403740

Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 11:12

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 11:12
Sorry, not sure if the Frontera got the 3.5 motor, maybe only the 3.2.....oldbaz.
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Reply By: Member - Andrew L (QLD) - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:00

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:00
Here's a link to some reports about the Frontera.

If your looking at an auto, have a good think maybe...

http://www.carsurvey.org/reviews/holden/frontera/r78140/comments/
AnswerID: 403741

Reply By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:13

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:13
Why is everyone scared of E10, must be the scare campaign, it's doing what the scare mongers want, ...buy more petrol. (like the global warming, Washington must be laughing with all that snow.)
They have been using Ethanol in Sth America for years, the V8 Supercars now use E85, when Lowndsie tested it at Willowbank he said there was very little difference, the last years rounds proved that.

And your concerned about a lousy 10%.

Some Fast Facts about Ethanol E85
CSR Ethanol produces less than half the CO2 emissions of petrol.
A renewable environmentally, friendly fuel source
The major widely used alternative fuel in the world
If Australia adopted E10 blended fuel nationwide, this would lead to over 3 million tonnes of CO2 abatement per year.
Ethanol blended fuels represent 3.5% of the world gasoline market
In Brazil, it represents up to 41% of the local fuel market
V8 Supercars have been running on ethanol blended fuels since 2007

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Follow Up By: Lex M (Brisbane) - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:55

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:55
"They have been using Ethanol in Sth America for years"
In vehicles specially built for it I believe.
Stainless steel fuel lines etc.
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Follow Up By: HGMonaro - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 11:00

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 11:00
and how long does a V8 Supercar run before getting refurbished... bad example that one I'm afraid!
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 11:14

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 11:14
HGMonaro
And how long did petrol powered V8 Supercars run before getting refurbished,
probably around the same ,

Lex
as you say.... you believe, not what you know but only what you believe.

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Follow Up By: Lex M (Brisbane) - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 11:40

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 11:40
I don't "know" anything I read on the net, but I sometimes believe it.

a couple of quotes from http://nrmafree2go.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/mynrma/hs.xsl/Fuels_of_the_Future.htm

"Holden has exported ethanol compatible Commodores to Brazil since 2000. The current model, called the Chevrolet Omega in Brazil, is capable of running on E25."

"That's why we can only buy E10 in Australia at present. We can have more ethanol any time we like, but our service station infrastructure, and our cars, will first have to be modified with stainless steel and other corrosion resistant components to store, deliver and run on higher grades than E10."

Spend a few minutes on google, you'll find more references.
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 12:01

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 12:01
lex
your report comes from NRMA, I copied this from RAA, these are to be taken with a grain of salt, you only have to look at their maps, and see the out dated road reports, I find that ones own experiences and trials are the best, but this below is what the RAA believes.

Most metal components in fuel systems will corrode or rust in the presence of water. Ethanol increases petrol's ability to absorb water without separating and Ethanol blended petrol can therefore ‘hold’ more water and carry this through the engine. The greater the concentration of ethanol the greater the ability to ‘hold’ water.
Several studies have examined the effect of E10 on fuel tanks and fuel system components and have concluded that ethanol up to 10% does not increase corrosion in normal, everyday operation.
Ethanol blends may have a deteriorating effect on the rubber components of an engine. Other additives, such as benzene may also have an effect.
In older models, deposits in fuel tanks and fuel lines are occasionally loosened by E10, and the fuel filter may become plugged. This is remedied by a fuel filter change.
If very Ethanol rich fuel is used this may cause an engine to stall.
Laboratory tests have shown that blends of 20% pure Ethanol in petrol can damage some conventional automotive paint.


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Follow Up By: HGMonaro - Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 09:39

Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 09:39
Doug, still irrelavant... anyone rebuiling their engines regularly won't care what juice gets put through it wear wise. They'll replace anything that might wear anyway.

If E10 or whatever didn't have some issues, why would there even be a discussion about whether such'n'such car can run on it or not. Maybe you turn your cars over ever 2-3 years and don't care what happens to them long term, some people have to hang on to them for many years and these issues will rear their ugly heads then, not after a tank or 2. Same thing as when they stopped making leaded, sure my Chev will run on it, but long term it's going to wear it out sooner.
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 09:46

Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 09:46
HGMonaro
I can see this discussion is going nowhere, is not going to achieve anything, you have your mind made up and thats it, as for changing a car every 3 or 4 years .... I wish I wish, my 4x4 is 16 years old, I have had it the last 9.

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 14:20

Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 14:20
"environmentally, friendly fuel source "

lost me right there!

absalutly nothing environmentally freindly about wholesale land clearing for monoculture

id have to assume none of the rest of those "facts" are true either then
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Reply By: Camoco - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 11:48

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 11:48
Hi,
We have a 2002 Frontera 3.2V6 Manual S model.

It doesn't make much difference to performance or economy whether running E10, Std or Premium. I mainly use Premium in summer when loaded and encountering plenty of hills. Mainly use E10 on flat distance runs when not as hot.
We also have LPG and whilst we use it a fair bit, we don't use it when it's over 35C as it is poor efficiency and responsiveness under that temp.
It always has heaps of grunt, and we get 13-14L/100 around our hilly town and about 12L/100 hwy from the petrol.
The only time our engine feels anything other than smooth is when it is due for a service that requires plugs. It does go through them a bit faster than before we added the gas, but that is a trade off I am happy with. It is doughy when very cold, but push it a bit and it leaps away, but even still it is not rough. We only notice that because we have a steep hill we must go up from our front gate, and idling to warm takes too long.

I would be very wary of a rough engine and look elsewhere.

Cheers Cam
AnswerID: 403755

Reply By: Madfisher - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 13:32

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 13:32
We put e10 in our old Paj once and it become a complete dog, but my old runner loved it.My Jack loses perfdormance on 91 let alone e10.
The local mechanics are reporting problems from people using e10.
Cheers Pete
AnswerID: 403766

Reply By: Madfisher - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 13:35

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 13:35
First fourby if I was selling my Jack I would put 98 in it to improve performance on a test drive, so the e10 story is a bit suss, unless he has been using for ages and its caused problems. Tell him to get it sorted and ring you back.
Cheers Pete
AnswerID: 403767

Reply By: myfirstfourby - Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 20:21

Thursday, Feb 11, 2010 at 20:21
Thanks for all of that guys...It is booked in for the RACQ check on Saturday so I would think that the mechanic will say if he thinks there is something seriously wrong with it since they are usually pretty picky from previous experience. Will let you know how it goes.

Thanks again
AnswerID: 403802

Reply By: ozjohn0 - Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 15:05

Friday, Feb 12, 2010 at 15:05
I've been using E10 now for about 3 4 years, in the V6 Holden, The 4L Territory and the cooks little Kia Rio.
Haven't noticed any ill effects, but the Holden certainly really loves the stuff. More Km's / 100lts and saves me 10cents a lt.
Most E10 sold in Australia has an octane rating of 95Ron.
Whilst standard ULP s only 91 Ron.
Although I did fill up in QLD last year with some BP E10 and it was only 91Ron.
ozjohn.
AnswerID: 403917

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