DEEP CYCLE BATTERY

Hi all,

I have been researching deep cycle batteries and would like some feed back from the seasoned users out there. I have decided on 100Ah battery size and with a budget of $300 in mind I have narrowed down to two batteries. Are one of these the best I can get for my money?
Location is on POD Trailer to power 80ltr Waeco.

1). X-CELL 12V 100AH AGM DEEP CYCLE BATTERY 86 SIZE 1000CCA
[X12100] $290.00
X-CELL AGM POWER BATTERIES 12V 100AH 86 SIZE 1000CCA EXTREME POWER ...DESIGNED LIFE 5-8YRS 2YRS FULL REPLACEMENT WARRANTY!

or

2). FULLRIVER 12V 105AH N70ZZ AGM DEEP CYCLE BATTERY
[DC105-12b] $289.99 Warranty not mentioned.

Cheers in advance,

Rob and Donna
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Reply By: Maîneÿ . . .- Tuesday, Feb 16, 2010 at 23:12

Tuesday, Feb 16, 2010 at 23:12
Rob and Donna,
Where do you live?
as batteries are expensive to transport across the country

Maîneÿ . . .
AnswerID: 404498

Follow Up By: SKELLY_POD - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 00:09

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 00:09
Hi MAINEY

we live at Mt Annan, near Canden NSW

Rob and Donna
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Follow Up By: Battery Value Pty Ltd - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 00:32

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 00:32
Rob and Donna,

shipping/handling for a 35kg item to your doorstep is 39 bucks.

Delivery time would be 1 to 2 business days.

Now let's see if this info makes it to you, fingers crossed (see them fingers Xed my modster friends)

Best regards, Peter
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FollowupID: 674186

Follow Up By: PradOz - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 14:56

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 14:56
Hi Rob & Donna

funny thing, i only live 10 minutes from you - small world


Hey Peter

Just wondering if you can give me an idea or example of what sort of deep cycle battery I could get to suit a physical size of

Length:245mm (maybe up to 260mm?)
Width: 180mm
Height:180mm

For me to use a larger size i need to move a fair bit in engine bay to suit

I need to replace my old battery (its not deep cycle its a Century DIN53L)

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or examples

cheers Mick
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FollowupID: 674249

Follow Up By: Battery Value Pty Ltd - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 17:04

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 17:04
Mick,

Looking up the MCA catalog, the closest fit is 198Lx166Wx172H which is a 12V44Ah AGM. Anything longer, and the height will exceed your 180mm.

Anyway, this gives you an idea what capacity battery you might be able to fit - if someone has these in stock - sorry we only have the one size 331L/174W/240H (terminals included) in the 12V100Ah AGM deep cycle.

For under bonnet mounting, have you considered flooded type battery over AGM?
It would be my choice, because of the temperature/charging hit and miss affair.
Marine type flooded are said to have half decent cycling capabilities - haven't any in depth knowledge of them though.

One battery type I would definitely recommend is spiral wound pure lead. Highest cranking capability per battery volume/weight, excellent rate of discharge versus DOD (Peukert number), extremely low internal resistance, and high vibration/shock resistance. Can be charged from zero to over 90% within less than an hour.
If one battery combines high current output/charging with some deep cycling capabilities, then this is probably the best design for it.
Have got more specs on it, but no stock.
If a number of people express interest in these, I can certainly make them available to you in the medium term.

Best regards, Peter
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Follow Up By: SKELLY_POD - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 22:18

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 22:18
Hi Mick

We also have a friend two streets away with last years Prado Diesel with a dual battery setup you could checkout if required.

Cheers Rob
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FollowupID: 674329

Follow Up By: PradOz - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 22:33

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 22:33
Hi Rob - Thanks for that but mine is the 90 series Prado. I have a dual setup now but its not done with heaps of room for larger batteries. I am currently in QLD on Gold Coast to see my spinal surgeon tomorrow and not sure but hope if all goes well i will be able to go home late this Saturday. thanks mick
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Reply By: Battery Value Pty Ltd - Tuesday, Feb 16, 2010 at 23:16

Tuesday, Feb 16, 2010 at 23:16
Hello Rob and Donna,

one important thing to watch out for when deciding on a deep cycle battery is its weight. Consider 32.5kg extremely good value - thick plates mean better life expectancy and/or higher battery capacity.

The CCA rating is secondary in a deep cycle battery and is mostly marketing hype.
Just consider that no starter motor in a car or fourbie will ever pull more than 250 amps while cranking, even when mechanically blocked this current will be double that at the most, you can read up about this here.

Even purpose designed starter batteries with a high number of thinner plates (to increase surface area) will struggle to provide 1000CCA (and what's the point if the starter current is only a quarter of that?)
Remember that thinner plates will get eaten away faster by the acid (positive gid corrosion), so you want them thick for longevity.
In a deep cycle battery you want fewer but thicker plates with lots of active material inside them, something a starter battery lacks.

You can use a deep cycle AGM battery for occasional cranking, but you can't have a starter battery perform the magic of deep cycle capabilities plus regular cranking.

Watch out for great offers on ebay or Oztion under "deep cycle battery" and you'll save a bundle, while getting the heaviest deep cycle AGM battery in the 12V100Ah range.
MCA is the brand, sorry can't say more due to advertising rules in this forum.
If you're in the market for the best charger for these batteries, use the notification form inside the linked FAQcpage above.

Best regards, Peter
AnswerID: 404499

Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Tuesday, Feb 16, 2010 at 23:52

Tuesday, Feb 16, 2010 at 23:52
Hi Batterymiester
You wouldn't happen to sell MCA Batteries - would you?
Regards Dennis
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FollowupID: 674177

Follow Up By: Battery Value Pty Ltd - Tuesday, Feb 16, 2010 at 23:55

Tuesday, Feb 16, 2010 at 23:55
how many would you like? :)

Best, Peter
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Tuesday, Feb 16, 2010 at 23:59

Tuesday, Feb 16, 2010 at 23:59
I'm not into AGM's.
Do you flog a good deep cycle wet cell?
Regards Dennis
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FollowupID: 674180

Follow Up By: Battery Value Pty Ltd - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 00:22

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 00:22
Sorry Dennis,

have to disappoint you.

Wet cells in deep cycle are probably more of the motion type battery (electric forklift etc), or in stationary solar installations.
I doubt that you can get good deep cycle wet ones in this smaller form factor/capacity rating.
The AGM provides tight packing, hence good contact between the electrolyte and the plates. It is this tight packing which holds the active material in place so it can't be shed, like in a flooded/wet design.
Active material shedding is one of the main causes for capacity loss over time in a flooded design.

I'd say the AGM has some great advantages over wet, but they're a bit more picky in terms of recharging as they're not as forgiving when being overcharged (you can't top off the electrolyte).

I always tell my customers 'your battery is only as good as your charger', especially when VRLA type (AGM, Gel) are involved.

Best regards, Peter
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FollowupID: 674185

Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 00:36

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 00:36
Apologies Peter - I was only tugging your chain.
An AGM won’t handle the work load in my situation, and I have a good wet cell, deep cycle that won’t need replacing for a few years yet.
Regards Dennis
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FollowupID: 674187

Follow Up By: Battery Value Pty Ltd - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 01:14

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 01:14
no worries Dennis,

was just wondering what your heavy battery work load looks like?

Best, Peter
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FollowupID: 674189

Follow Up By: SKELLY_POD - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 22:25

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 22:25
Hi Peter

CCA was not an issue for me just the way it was advertised. I just want the best AGM Deep Cycle battery for my money, as I believe these are the quickest to recover charge, correct me if I am wrong. I have CTEK charger to look after this for me. The links to batteries you mention, where are they made and what sort of warranty do they come with?

Cheers Rob
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FollowupID: 674332

Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 00:14

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 00:14
Rob & Donna, I have just replaced my 5 year old (1,000 cycles plus) HGL120-12 Fullrivers with DC115-12 Fullrivers @ $308 each.
The DCs should do a better job than the HGLs.
I am using one of the old HGLs as a crank battery.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome
AnswerID: 404504

Follow Up By: SKELLY_POD - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 22:57

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 22:57
Hi Peter

I am looking at Fullrivers battery 105A $290 , thanks for your advice

regards Rob
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FollowupID: 674340

Reply By: _gmd_pps - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 00:50

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 00:50
I understand you have a budget, but I have not enough money to afford to buy cheap so my choice is Lifeline

http://www.solaronline.com.au/125ah-concorde-12v-battery.html

this i just one supplier. haven't researched price much in OZ since I buy mine in the US at a fraction of the cost.

Lifelines come with 5 year warranty. I prefer the 2x6V since you have thicker plates and higher discharge than a single 12V but thats really only relevant above 200Ah.

These batteries charge faster than anything else, but you need a decent charger also to provide the current they can take.

Just something to thing about.

good luck
gmd
AnswerID: 404507

Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 00:53

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 00:53
sorry "think about" of course
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FollowupID: 674188

Follow Up By: Battery Value Pty Ltd - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 01:56

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 01:56
Hello gmd,

I remember your previous post on the same subject...
And when trying to get tech specs like internal resistance data for their 100Ah AGM product - turned out there is none published...

Then, reading a bit in their battery manual (for the chairman range of AGM, no manual on the lifeline) I stumbled on very useful peukert data and discharge graphs which make it easy to calculate the internal resistance - 10 milliOhm if I remember right.
This is nothing to get excited about since it is worse by a factor of two compared to other brands.

Also, the amount of lead in their 100Ah product is nothing spectacular, so why exactly bother?

And why would you want to go the 6V way? More connections which could fail, more wire losses, more money, the issue of charge balancing in a series string. All this hassle, but why?
Going by your logic, I'd be buying 2V 1000Ah cells and making them into a 12V arrangement - great battery for sure, 10 year warranty, 250 amp real charge acceptance, but I wouldn't have the nerve to say 'I have not enough money to buy cheap'...

And your claim of 'these charge faster than anything else'. Have you run comparison tests with other 6V brands which is the only way to find out really...

In a nutshell, may I remind you that we're talking 12V right here and now, and we want an apple-apple comparison.

Best regards, Peter
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FollowupID: 674191

Follow Up By: _gmd_pps - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 03:59

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 03:59
There is plenty of reasons to go 6V, one is weight, plate thickness higher than equivalent 12v and more. 2V cells are used in many stationary solar installations for higher capacities. I have two banks of 4 6V 220Ah Concords so the 6V pack is still possible to handle with ca 30Kg each. They come with a 5 year warranty, which is not really a point to me when I bring them over, but they have it for a reason.
Since you trade in batteries your obviously biased.

I have used wet cells before the Concords and will never look back. I have them in use since 3 years now and expect them to outlast any of the chinzy ones by far. We will see in another 5 years. I use up to 180 Amps at times and they get charged with 50Amps from my Xantrex charger plus 20+Amps from my solar panels when conditions are good. However I have a good battery monitor on both banks and try not to discharge them more than 60%.

But I must admit that I pay much less for the Concords than for any local AGMs even the cheapest AGMs.

have fun
gmd


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FollowupID: 674194

Reply By: kend88 - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 08:41

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 08:41
About 2 or 3yrs ago I bought a new 100ah FIAMM AGM thru ebay for $150 plus $30 postage (39kg). They had been on ebay daily for about 6 months, all different sizes. Arrived without a hitch and has been excellent (touch wood). Haven't checked lately but didn't notice them on ebay a few months later.
kenD
bris
AnswerID: 404521

Reply By: TerraFirma - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 13:00

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 13:00
Fullriver DC Series AGM would be my choice, I have 4 Fullriver 120AH's and they have been brilliant. The DC Series is the heavier duty with thicker plates, I see these lasting a long long time with the correct maintenance.
AnswerID: 404551

Follow Up By: SKELLY_POD - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 23:22

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 23:22
Hi TerraFirma

I can purchase DC105-12 (105A) for $290 or DC120-128 (120A) for $339
Cheers

Rob
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FollowupID: 674347

Reply By: Member - Geoff H (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 15:21

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 15:21
Hi Guys,

I bought a dual purpose Marine Battery about 6 years ago and it's still hanging in there.

I have just replaced it with N70 size fully sealed Deep Cycle with 760CCA and 105AH so I can run it as a starting battery if I have to.

I bought it locally for $190 with a 12 month replacement warranty. Not sure of the brand, think it was something like Super Power. It's bloody heavy.

Regards
AnswerID: 404566

Reply By: Alloy c/t - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 17:04

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 17:04
Personally I,d go for the Fullriver as my oldest Fullriver AGM hgl 80amp is now over 8yrs old and still as good as the first day I installed it under the bonnet,, on a slightly different note you do know that the Waeco 80 is a power hungry beast and that a 100 -105ah battery will give you only 24hrs before recharge required ? The Waeco will draw 63 amp hrs on average in 24hrs.
AnswerID: 404571

Follow Up By: SKELLY_POD - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 23:11

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 23:11
Hi Alloy c/t

Rating plate on Waeco 80 says max draw is 7.5A I have only ever use 240v so this is a test for me to purchase correct battery. I have also purchased a CTEK charge which is rated to 120A. Will see how it goes, thanks for your advice

cheers

Rob
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FollowupID: 674344

Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Saturday, Feb 20, 2010 at 15:12

Saturday, Feb 20, 2010 at 15:12
Rob,
Alloy's advice is spot on here regarding the amount of power required.

I had and emphasis had a Waeco 110, there's no way I could have afforded the Unimog full of batteries to get a decent run time out of the fridge. The 80 and 110 litre Waeco's use exactly the same Danfoss compressor.

I have two 105AHr Lifeline AGM's, the best I ever got without charging is about 30 hours! At that point the alarm light on the Waeco was flashing and the contents where getting warm.

Geoff,
Landcruiser HDJ78,
Grey hair is hereditary, you get it from children. Baldness is caused by watching the Wallabies.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

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Reply By: CodMaster - Thursday, Feb 18, 2010 at 04:12

Thursday, Feb 18, 2010 at 04:12
Hi Rob & Donna,
Don't mean to hijack your thread but I too am looking at getting a Fullriver DC105. I'm Melbourne based though... Would you be able to share where you received the quote for 290? I've checked ebay and it'll cost me 300+28 shipping. Can anybody shoot me some reliable and competitively priced retailers in victoria?

By the way, have you thought of a suitable battery box? i've seen a couple on ebay including a nice one from abr sidewinder, but is a tad bit expensive.

Cheers,
Will
AnswerID: 404678

Follow Up By: SKELLY_POD - Thursday, Feb 18, 2010 at 21:28

Thursday, Feb 18, 2010 at 21:28
Hi Will

A.P.B. All Purpose Batteries at Smeaton Grange NSW near Narellan.

Cheers Rob
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FollowupID: 674519

Follow Up By: CodMaster - Friday, Feb 19, 2010 at 01:26

Friday, Feb 19, 2010 at 01:26
Thanks for that Rob, I received a quote from a store near my area for $330 pickup. APB can mail it to my door for that price! I guess ill wait a bit longer for some replies and do some more research in the mean time, otherwise i might just order it from APB.
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Follow Up By: R&J Batteries - Friday, Feb 19, 2010 at 10:25

Friday, Feb 19, 2010 at 10:25
Whereabouts in Melbourne are you?

Dave
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Follow Up By: CodMaster - Saturday, Feb 20, 2010 at 14:42

Saturday, Feb 20, 2010 at 14:42
Hi Dave,
I live in Seabrook (western vic). Small world! The quote I actually received was from R&J batteries for "300+GST" pickup.
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