E.10. Why?

Motherhen.

As I read it, most petrol engines that run on ULP will have to use Premium ULP or go to Diesel. Then I suppose the next thing that will happen will be that all diesels will be " Bio-Diesels or recycled Fish & Chip Oil "

Quote from steve. B "most petrol engines that run on ULP will have to use Premium ULP or go to Diesel." Sorry but petrol engines will not run on diesel - no matter what the powers say.

Also pure diesel will also be phased out the following year and B5 introduced.

BP has convinced the NSW Government that all petrol vehicles made from 1987 can run on E10 without damage.

Garry

Isn't BP the only chain that has no fuel blends?

Garry, thats interesting.

My Nissan is an 87 model, however, runs the P40 motor which was produced many years previously, mine being the last model to run this motor.

What is it about a motor which would allow it to run on E10 ?.....or......
What is it about a motor which prevents it running on E10 ?


Cheers......Lionel.

Rubbers in the fuel systems of some older (and some newer) vehicles are not compatible with ethanol and dissolve/perish. Likewise ethanol does absorb water so could cause corrosion if left to sit. Ethanol is a little less powerful (not sure how to express that) but at 10% is probably not all that noticeable.

Ethanol works fine on engines designed from scratch for it (Holden exports engines to South America where 100% ethanol is available).

100% ethanol only exists in a vacuum. The best you can get is around 96%, as water vapour is absorbed from the atmosphere.

Ian

This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Foul Language Rule .

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To find out if your vehicle will run on E 10Click here for the full Government list

Oh by the way, if you have a pre 2004 petrol Nissan - well...

The main issue is not the engine but hoses, fuel tanks, seals and diaphragms....

2 Strokeowers, Outboards, chainsaws etc will need to use Premium Unleaded.

Sad situation......

Hi Sir Kev.

As it is that Queensland produces the bulk of Ethanol. How about trying to become your local member and BAN it. But what will they replace Ethanol with ???

Steve,

The town of Dalby (just down the road from Chinchilla) has an ethanol plant. As for banning it, the current government would not allow that.

What to replace it with?? mmmmmmmmmm Maybe Crude oil hehehehehe


Cheers Kev

As you know Kev, some small country town servo's don't carry Premium ULP.
I wonder what owners of older vehicles that live in these areas will do?
They don't seem to have a choice but to upgrade their vehicle.

BAN ETHANOL ??? What are they going to make the Bundy out of then? We are all going to have to drink Beer? Nick off Steve B !!

SIR Kev,,
CO2 is the only "pollution" produced when brewing ethanol. I guess the " Mr 'detailed programmatic specificity' Rudd carbon tax will fix that !!!

Ian

I am curious as to your concerns about pollution in the production of ethanol.

Correct me if I am wrong but this is what I believe happens. Plants draw CO2 out of the atmosphere and by photosynthesis fuelled by sunlight produce hydrocarbons that are harvested and converted to ethanol. Crop waste may be used to provide energy for the process.

Petrol on the other hand is made from plant hydrocarbons that have been stored under the earth's surface for millennia.

Petrol comes from overseas, ethanol is a local product.

Guys, cut the hysteria and just suck it up (or go diesel).

Bob

Hello Bob of Killing and Other Stuff,

Your summary,
"Correct me if I am wrong but this is what I believe happens. Plants draw CO2 out of the atmosphere and by photosynthesis fuelled by sunlight produce hydrocarbons that are harvested and converted to ethanol. Crop waste may be used to provide energy for the process."

Is on a certain level absolutely correct. There's also a step or two before that!

Lets start from the beginning,

1. Clear some natural vegetation. (burn diesel and/or petrol)
2. Plow cleared land. (burn diesel and/or petrol)
3. Plant ethanol able crop. (burn diesel and/or petrol)
4. Harvest ethanol able crop. (burn diesel and/or petrol)
5. Deliver ethanol able crop to processing plant. (burn diesel and/or petrol)
6. Process ethanol able crop into ethanol (burn coal and/or natural gas to power process)
7. Deliver ethanol to fuel company for blending. (maybe make a profit from steps 1 to 6. burn diesel and/or petrol)
8. Fuel company blends into unleaded petrol. (definitely make a profit)
9. Fuel company delivers ethanol and unleaded blend to local service station. (burn diesel and/or petrol)

Yep, ethanol is as green as a politicians promise is honest.

As I tell my daughters, have a think about the whole picture, not just the agenda.

My point exactly Geoff.
People need to realise the Whole life process not just when it leaves the refinery.

Kev,
This very accurate sentence: "People need to realise the Whole life process not just when it leaves the refinery." needs to be applied to a lot of this "green" energy and transport market being stuffed down our throats.

Don't ever follow the production trail of a Prius or a Hybrid Camry from extracting raw materials to end of life disposal! The trail is absolutely terrifying in the pollution it creates!

One of the cleanest vehicle whole of life trails is actually the humble and much maligned US Army Humvee, no plastics trims, minimal copper wire meaning minimal PVC. The rest is easily recycled copper, steel and cast iron.

Hah ha Geoff

Please don't ever try to run a farm with agrarian economics like yours. Maybe even consider using some of the ethanol or crop by products to replace your expensive diesel/petrol.

Maybe if some of the sugar cane farms sent the cane for ethanol production (land already cleared) instead of giving Australians ever fatter bums, we would all be better off.

Bob

Member - Troll 81 (QLD) replied:
>Snip<......that said there's a noticeable difference in fuel economy when using it.

Is the noticeable difference that you use more fuel?

I noticed my Tradie Truck (02 Mitsubishi Express) using more fuel, my B.I.L who is a mechanic tells me it's because the Ethanol in the mix evaporates (petrol evaporates too, so I'm not convinced about this...) .... I don't know if I believe that, but I have been running the "mid" grade of fuel for about a month now, and it doesn't seem to have made much of a difference.....

Cheers

Brian

Yea I get about 50-100kms less if I use E-10

Wow... that's a big difference! My mileage (on a 45L tank in the "Misty" as opposed to the the Troll's 90-something) has dropped by about 40-50k's.... so indeed there is something to it I guess.... I just haven't seen it coming back since I've been using the "Mid" grade fuel.


Cheers

Brian

You live in NSW right?

Try Queensland and there is no upper house, so the party in power gets to do whatever it wants with no checks for 3 to 4 years.

John
Half your luck!!! As I said, if the people are silly enough to vote in a dud government, so be it. But at least they were elected by the majority vote. Not with 2% of the vote, or in the case of the major parties, no primary votes for the 2nd, 3rd or maybe 4th dummy elected.

teege

The funniest thing is there is absalutly nothing green about ethonal as a fuel
- it makes the oil industry look posativly environmentally freindly

Ethanol is the result of mixing a yeast with sugar and water, nothing more natural (green) than that !!
Ian

Oh if that was only true

lets take suger for starters

vast areas of tropical QLD clear felled and replaced with monoculture so almost nothing can live there. what does live there is killed off by the huge amounts of pesticides required to grow stuff up there. if anythings left alive - they get burnt it to death

then theres the runoff from all the fertilizer which has been directly attributed to the crown of thorns starfish which has decimated the great barrier reef.
------------ but thats only the suger

despite your asertions all ethonal needs is yeast sugar and water
--- NOT TRUE

it also needs bio mass. Quite a few different sources, weat, corn and other stuff but all of it has one common requirement

wholesale land clearing replaced by monocultutre
The greatest threat to animals of this this planet is not climate change - it is habitat destruction which ethanol production is ALL about

PMACKS.

I REST MY CASE !!!!

Our boat with a 302 V8 and 300 litre fuel tank is going to cost a heap extra with premium. Our local Marina already charges a premium of 35c/litre over the max street price on ULP - another 14c/l on top, maybe time to sell the boat.

The boat is too big to trailer so we are reliant on Marina fule - who wants to put 200l at 20l a time from the local servo to top up.

No way do you want E10 anywhere near a boat.

Our 2000 Rangie has been run mainly on E10 for 3 or 4 years now with no problems, no performance drop (hard to tell in a 2.5 ton vehicle with a 4.6L V8) that we can tell and do difference in fuel consumption according to the trip computer (15l/100km average on both E10 and ULP). Our local E10 is 95 octane which may be helping.

Stevesub

I have the same problem, my near new 140hp 4banger Suzuki is not supposed to fed ethanol either. :-(

"If" they are still running the same engine they will be adding 'flashlube' or some other substance as a 'lead replacement'....this is either added directly to the fuel tank or with some sort of metering device.

"My personal opinion is that the old chestnuts of "ozone layer/ global warming" and now "climate change" is being used to the benefit of some big corporates, but hey, what would I know, I just sit here and read between the lines. "


Yep.... I agree with you on that mate!


Cheers

Brian

Steve,
Race cars have there motors rebuilt after a couple of races and cars in Brazil have motors built to take 100% Ethanol which is 100% alcohol. Most country's in Europe run 5% Ethanol.
Cheers Dave..

V8 Supercars run on E85. That's 85% ethanol.

What does it take to fill a V8 supercar?

Sugarcane contains about 3% molasses and from 1 litre of molasses you end up with about 250mls or one cup of ethanol. To fill a 120 litre tank you would need about 480 litres of molasses and that equates to about 16 tonnes of sugarcane.