Silly Landcruiser Clutch Decision
Submitted: Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:22
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Imstat
For my HZJ75RP clutch replacement I recently did what I am now thinking was a crazy thing, just to save few dollars.
I purchased a new Exceedy Turbo Tuff Clutch on Ebay and had it fitted locally. The bloke that fitted it said he could not guarantee the clutch operation etc as he didn't supply the clutch, which is fair enough.
Having faith in the very colourful Exceed - it had a good write up - I arranged for the bloke to fit it.
It is nice and smooth, a bit heavy under the pedal BUT when actuating the clutch pedal, after it had travelled about 100km, it developed a hell of a squeak from inside the clutch housing. Not just a liitle squeak but a giant squeak. Very embarrasing in the local
parking area!
So I am about $1050 down and now have a Big Big problem.
Would anyone
hazard a comment (no not about silly me please!) but whether the squeak could be a serious structural problem or if it may go away (here's hoping) though it sounds as though it is here to stay and maybe only another $1,100 will fix it!
Thanks
John
Reply By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:32
Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:32
It could be a few things. I'm going to assume a new clutch AND pressure plate where fitted at the time of repairs.
Was the thrust bearing replaced when the clutch was replaced?
Was the pivot arm and ball checked for wear when the clutch was replaced?
Is the pivot arm straight?
Does the noise stop if you drop the box into neutral and lift your foot off the clutch?
Was the pivot ball cleaned and lubed at the time of clutch replacement?
I'm hazarding a guess you mean an Exedy clutch was fitted or did you actually buy an Exceedy or an Exceed?
I'd guess a genuine Exedy is a vastly different animal to the other pair!
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Imstat - Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:56
Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:56
Thanks Geoff and everyone,
I might have actually mislead by lousy spelling. It ia actually and Exedy (someting tuff) Turbo Tuff, I think
It was a complete kit with Press Plate, clutch plate, thrust bearing .....
I put some grease on the arm actuated by the slave cylinder but this 'ruckess' is definitely inside - sounds very 'creaky' 'springy' sort of.
I will try putting in neutral etc thanks.
I am trying to decide what to do with it. I will have to fix it somehow.
Mant tks Ian
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 22:20
Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 22:20
Hi Ian,
I hope you didn't think I was pulling the spelling bee nazi!
The unfortunate thing with the world we live in is third world manufacturers are often doing a play on top name manufacturers trademarks.
The easiest way is to almost, not quite match the name.
Many, many moons ago when Japanese manufacturers made ordinary bearings and US manufacturers made great bearings there was a very tricky play.
Timken, Made in U.S.A. (the top notch American product)
Timken, Made on USA (the poor cousin made ON the Japanese island of Usa)
Hence my question re, Exedy versus Exceedy or Exceed.
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 23:40
Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 23:40
bought what i thought was a kingchrome type leatherman knife
thought it was a decent price until my mate pointe out it is infact Kinchrome
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Follow Up By: The Boss - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 18:10
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 18:10
I thought that USA story was a hoax?
Also get outmore, sure you werent after Kincrome? Thats the better brand,
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Follow Up By: Member - The Bushwhackers -NSW - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 22:39
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 22:39
Hey Geoff
I'm one of those spelling nazi's!! lol
I can see what you mean in this case though. Also, I recently purchased a bit of gear for work from my local sales rep. When the goods arrive, there was a brochure in the packaging, advertising stuff made by a company using the brand name Shinano, would be easily mistaken for the reputable ShiMano
Cheers, Dave
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Follow Up By: Member - The Bushwhackers -NSW - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 22:40
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 22:40
Hey Geoff
I'm one of those spelling nazi's!! lol
I can see what you mean in this case though. Also, I recently purchased a bit of gear for work from my local sales rep. When the goods arrive, there was a brochure in the packaging, advertising stuff made by a company using the brand name Shinano, would be easily mistaken for the reputable ShiMano
Cheers, Dave
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Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:32
Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:32
Did you replace the thrust bearing, which can make a noise like you describe.
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Follow Up By: Imstat - Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:58
Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:58
yes thanks Graham, it was in the kit. This sound is like a "he haw". Thanks
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Reply By: Member - Kevin B1 (WA) - Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:45
Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:45
First don't panic about it just yet as it may not be the actual clutch making the noise. The first thing you should do is take it back to the mechanic who fitted it and ask if he can diagnose where the squeak is coming from. It may just be the pivot on the clutch fork that needs a dab of grease or it may be coming from the clutch pressure plate. I am sure a polite request will do wonders.
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Follow Up By: Imstat - Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:59
Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 21:59
Good suggestion Kevin, he is a ways away but will make the trip.
Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 22:48
Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 22:48
My guess is the flywheel spigot bearing in the flywheel wasn't replaced. It is not supplied in the clutch kit.
If you hear the noise when you first place your foot on the clutch, it is probably the clutch release bearing. If no noise at this point, push the clutch pedal all the way to the floor. If you hear the noise at this point it is more likely the small spigot bearing that sits in the flywheel.
It shouldn't be the usual landcruiser clutch squeak which is a high pitched noise that goes away when you lightly touch the clutch pedal (caused by a diaphragm spring groove and no freeplay on the release bearing).
Also, out of curiosity, was the flywheel machined?
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 09:27
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 09:27
My replies (along with everyone else who's taken the trouble to reply) relate to a running motor. Below you give us a vital piece of info that it makes the noise when the motor is not running...... and in the first post, you say the noise is coming from the bellhousing......the goal posts are moving......the problem is the installer, not the clutch - go back and ask him to fix it.
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Follow Up By: Imstat - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 19:31
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 19:31
Sorry Phil for leaving the vital bit of the puzzle out. I am all too familiar with iit myself. But, yes the squeak is there on clutch actuation. If i jumped on it as my truck sits in the shed right now without starting the engine - "hee haw" springy, "ping ping" sound. Start the engine and it is still there just the same, and I can hear it over the engine noise.
Cheers Ian
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Reply By: Member - ross m (WA) - Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 23:21
Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 23:21
I have an Exedy Heavy sports tuff clutch in my HZJ75 and I couldnt sing its praises high enough after 40000 klms.
The mechanic sounds as though he has a case of sour grapes because he didnt get to buy the clutch on his account and add his % onto the cost.
If you dont get any satisfaction from him,contact Exedy,Im sure they would be intersted to know why its making a noise.
Im wondering about the spigget bearing,they can get loud but I dont know iif they only come on when the clutch is engaging.
If its making a noise when engaging its usually the thrust bearing.
Is it a squeak or a bearing whine?
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Imstat - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 06:39
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 06:39
Thanks everyone.
The sound is a very 'springy, squeaky' "he haw" as I press the clutch pedal. It does it when the vehicle is sitting without engine running.
Same when driving the vehicle.
But it can be heard clearly from inside or outside the vehicle.
Thanks, Ian
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Follow Up By: Member - ross m (WA) - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 18:26
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 18:26
If its making a noise without the engine running ,I would be looking more at how the clutch fork was installed.
A faulty clutch plate,pressure plate or bearing would only make a noise when the engine was on
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Follow Up By: Imstat - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 19:20
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 19:20
Okay, thanks for that tip. The noise is there eng off or running. Cheers Ian
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Reply By: get outmore - Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 23:41
Tuesday, Feb 23, 2010 at 23:41
I rang around for quotes on a new clutch a while back and every mechanic said they will only fit Toyota clutches
- could be something in that
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Follow Up By: Bob of KAOS - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 08:05
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 08:05
'There could be something in that' but what that is might not be immediately obvious.
It could be that they all think anything but Toyota parts are rubbish, or it could mean that Toyota offers a substantial kickback whenever they purchase a Toyota part. Why do you think chemists promote generic brands of drugs?
Bob
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Follow Up By: Member - Nick (TAS) - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 08:15
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 08:15
Well, Toyota clutches are the only ones we WONT fit here.Who wants a shuddery clutch to replace their shuddery clutch anyway.................
Have fitted heaps of Exedy Safari Tuff clutches and never any problems or squeaks.
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 08:22
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 08:22
do you really think totota pays mechanics to fit their parts?
you talk to any mechanic thats been in the game for a while and they will know which aftermarket parts can be used and which ones arnt worth their time.
CVs are a good example. We can get 16-20k out of Toyota ones but then the company replaces them with aftermarket which last 2 months max
now your local mechanic is not going to waste all his time for free when you come back every couple of months with stuffed CVs he has to replace for free then stuff around trying to get warranty on them
same gos for clutches - alot of labour involved in pulling out dodgey clutches
yea you might get a good run out of one - but if hes putting in say 100 a year and 20 are coming back - that soon adds up to "not worth my time"
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Follow Up By: Member - ross m (WA) - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 18:35
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 18:35
Getoutmore,I worked in the clutch and brake game many years ago and there are plenty of top quality aftermarket clutches out there.
In fact very few car companies ,if any, make their own clutch kits.
And very few brake and clutch shops use OEM unless they have to
Buying something in a Toyota box just adds unnecessary $$$ onto a job
The guy at the parts desk at local toyota dealer told me quietly he thought the Exedy clutches were better than Toyota's;)
My other landcruiser has a $200 chinese made clutch in it ,shudders a little when cold but its done 30000 with no signs of imminent failure
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Reply By: Top Ender - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 00:53
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 00:53
Did they machine then fly wheel if not then take it back and get them to do so and replace`the clutch, no more no less.
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Follow Up By: Imstat - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 19:17
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 19:17
Well, I am hoping this was done. My receipt says it was ($70). Cheers Ian
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Reply By: Member - John - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 07:21
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 07:21
G'day, you say it makes the noise if the engine running or not? Is that correct?
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Follow Up By: Imstat - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 07:27
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 07:27
G'day and thanks.
Yes it is the actual pressing of the clutch that causes a 'screachy', very 'springy' sound in the clutch housing.
It happens, travelling or stopped.engine running or not.
I have been imagining it is the actual springing of the pressure plate somehow.
Quite obvious noise - "hee" "haw" as pedal goes in and out.
Tks Ian
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Reply By: Member - Rodney B- Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 08:58
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 08:58
Made the same decision as you and had a Exedy Heavy sports tuff clutch fitted. Need two feet on the pedal to change gear and after only 8 months has developed a thrust bearing squeal when foot off the clutch.
Had the chance to fit genuine and didn't do it. In my opinion was a big mistake.
Having said that the Excedy works
well and never slips but you have to build your muscles up in the left leg just to hold it down at the lights.
Have you checked your slave cylinder out as they can get squeaky when you push the pedal down.
Cheers Rod
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Follow Up By: Imstat - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 19:16
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 19:16
Thanks, yes I put some grease on it, bit the noise is inside I think. Thanks again
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Reply By: j100 - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 13:14
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 13:14
Return spring on the clutch pedal ??? This would give the noise when the engine is running or not
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Follow Up By: Imstat - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 19:15
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 19:15
Thanks, no this noise is in or at the bell housing. Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Trackker (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 21:03
Wednesday, Feb 24, 2010 at 21:03
Hi
John, my 2 cents is also
check the throwout fork/yoke where it contacts the throwout bearing. If it is slightly worn unevenly, when you press the clutch pedal it can force the bearing sideways slightly and cause problems.It also forces the fingers on the pressure plate to release unevenly and may cause your sound. One more thing to
check anyway.
I have an excedy clutch and can recommend and would never fit a genuine clutch again. You would have more luck with a warranty claim with excedy.
As to the bloke who fitted it, dont worry, he's just sore about missing out on his nice little discount from toyota. Hope you get it sorted, cheers, Dave
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