Caravan weight.Finally !!!!!

Submitted: Sunday, Mar 07, 2010 at 13:40
ThreadID: 76636 Views:4758 Replies:7 FollowUps:11
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Hi all.I have finally taken our van over the weigh bridge and loaded it up with what we feel should be max we will take on our trip,(including full water tanks) excluding BEER !!!!!
The following are the figures written down on the certificate from the weigh bridge.
Tare Weight (free standing,unhitched from the car) = 1400kg.
Total weight when attached to the car = 1260kg.
Ball weight = 140kg.

The van's complience plate stipulates:
ATM = 1420
TARE = 1124
GTM = 1321
I was advised by the operator that i could, if necessary, still add another 160kg to the van as when it is coupled to the car it only comes in at 1260 which is still 160kg under the ATM.
Is this correct or do i only have another 20kg max that can be added ?
The vehicle has a towing capacity of 2800kg and a ball weight of 280kg.
Any help will be greatly appreciated as we want to keep within the correct weights for insurance purposes and for the safety of ourselves and other road users.
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Reply By: Shaker - Sunday, Mar 07, 2010 at 14:02

Sunday, Mar 07, 2010 at 14:02
No, it is wrong.
ATM is aggregate trailer mass, which is the weight transferred to the ground through the road wheels & the jockey wheel.

Tare weight is unladen ex factory, in the case of a motor vehicle it also includes a nominal amount of fuel.

AnswerID: 407650

Reply By: Lex M (Brisbane) - Sunday, Mar 07, 2010 at 14:02

Sunday, Mar 07, 2010 at 14:02
From the ADR definitions

AGGREGATE TRAILER MASS (ATM) - the total mass of the laden trailer when
carrying the maximum load recommended by the ‘Manufacturer’. This will
include any mass imposed onto the drawing vehicle when the
‘Combination Vehicle’ is resting on a horizontal supporting plane.

You.ve got 20Kg to go
AnswerID: 407652

Follow Up By: Tenpounder (SA) - Sunday, Mar 07, 2010 at 15:36

Sunday, Mar 07, 2010 at 15:36
I agree with Lex. The weight of the hitched van (minus the drawbar load) is the GTM (Gross Trailer Mass), and is NOT the same as the ATM. If you lift the loaded weight so that the GTM (without the download on the ball) is equal to the plated ATM, then you'll be illegal,
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Reply By: Member - Don M- Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 06:48

Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 06:48
The 1400kg that you nominated as Tare is, in fact, what you need to compare to ATM.

Tare is the EMPTY weight of the van.

AnswerID: 407772

Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 09:29

Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 09:29
You can only add another 20kg

The TARE figure of 1400 is actually the ATM

The weighbridge operator wouldnt have a clue by saying that.

He should weigh the vehicles and just shut up as he doesnt know what hes talking about.
AnswerID: 407804

Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 10:21

Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 10:21
The 1400 kg figure is neither the tare weight or the ATM. It is the total weight of the van at the time it was weighed.

The ATM is only ever a weight nominated by the manufacturer (or other certifying authority.) The ATM is the weight that is the limit to which the total weight of your van should never exceed whilst it is being towed. The ATM is a limit and not a figure that you weigh.

In the case of this van the ATM is 1400 kg unless a competent engineer assesses it to carry more and issues a new compliance plate. From that time on the ATM will be the figure on that new plate ane no other figure.

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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 12:18

Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 12:18
Ahm Ahm according to the original post it says the plated ATM is 1420kg


The van weighed out at 1400kg

Thats why we said he could put another 20kg in

This wouldnt allow for a whole slab of stubbies even.


LOl


Cheers
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 12:29

Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 12:29
Graham - you are correct. I sort of contradicted myself, didn't I. Thanks for pointing out that the second 1400 kg figure should be 1420. Another case for having an edit function in the forum.

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Reply By: jeep cherokee - Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 10:00

Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 10:00
Thanks for the replys.We had a feeling we would only be able to load another 20kg into the van(not that we need to).At least we now know we are within the safety limits.Now where to stack the BEER !!!!!!!!
AnswerID: 407813

Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 10:22

Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 10:22
That's why I use a twin cab ute for my tug.

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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 12:01

Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 12:01
doesnt leave you much room for beer.....:((
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Follow Up By: Tenpounder (SA) - Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 12:03

Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 12:03
Actually, PeterD, it doesn't matter what you are towing with, even a Kenworth prime mover, if the van has an ATM of X, then the max the van can weigh is X.
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Follow Up By: Tenpounder (SA) - Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 12:06

Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 12:06
OK, PeterD, now the penny has dropped! I didn't realise you were talking about the beer. How silly of me!
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 12:15

Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 12:15
Chris - I like your suggestion of a Kenworth. Plenty of capacity for the beer with still enough left for the van.

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Reply By: Nomadic Navara - Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 12:38

Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 12:38
Jeep Cherokee

There is an important figure missing from your weights. Did you weigh the van on delivery to check the tare weight? You may not have the full 300 kg (or 296 kg if you wish to be pedantic) available to you. There may be things like the awning, air-conditioner and other accessories added after the van was built.

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Follow Up By: jeep cherokee - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 11:30

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 11:30
No we didnt weigh the van after picking it up.There was an awning and bed end flys fitted and full annex in the boot, so we have definately gained some weight there.
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Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 12:43

Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 12:43
The ball weight is almost like double dipping.

It has to be applied to the caravan as well as the payload of the towing vehicle.

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Follow Up By: disco driver - Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 16:04

Monday, Mar 08, 2010 at 16:04
How do you work that out?

Imagine a loaded caravan that sits totally on the weighbridge on its wheels and jockey wheel at the front.
It registers 1500kg on the weighbridge .
Move the same caravan so that only the caravan wheels are on the weighbridge, the jockey wheel is not.
Now the weighbridge registers 1400kg.
The "missing" 100kg is therefore the drawbar loading.

Your imaginary tug and the caravan combination are well within the GCM quoted on your tugs Data plate.

Your imaginary tug has a load capacity of 1000kg, this includes the passengers and everything else loaded onto the vehicle.
It also includes the 100kg drawbar loading from the front of he caravan.

The drawbar loading is only inclded in your total weight once, as part of your tugs load.

Sorry this is a bit rambling but I couldn't explain it any simpler.

How is it doubledipping?

Disco.
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