If your motor lets you down in a remote area?

Submitted: Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 20:54
ThreadID: 76723 Views:3854 Replies:14 FollowUps:25
This Thread has been Archived

Related Pages

If you have a motor let you down in a remote area, Then providing its not a simple issue ( Blocked fillter, broken pipe whatever}, then really whats the difference between old tech and new technolgy, your still stuffed!!

The oldies without the electronics, eg .you have a injector pump failure, can you fix it on the side of the road? Don't think so!, Head gasket?, any internal mishap, very hard to fix on the side of a track in a remote area unless your carrying a spare motor in parts and know what your doing, But !! the oldies have the reputation of not letting you down, so we have this fear of the same motor controlled by electronics being a worry outbacki in case something goes wrong, Just need to be a different educated mechanic to diagnose the problem, i reckon, but the end result is the same!! being electronic or mechanical if you have a failure and haven't got the part your stuffed.....LOL'

Cheers Axle
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Tonyfish#58 - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:03

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:03
The oldies were a lot easier to diagnose though :-) More then likely you could fix it and be on the way.

These days it could be a mi-rid of things with electronics - basically you need to plug it in to a computer

So with the oldies you may be able to drive it out at least :-)

AnswerID: 408137

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:28

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:28
" Basically you need to plug it into a computer"


Can't we put one of them in our tool box?...)))))))


Axle
0
FollowupID: 678042

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:35

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:35
As long as the fault code actually registers on the reader ... doesnt always happen.

The fault code doesnt identify the failed component either ... so all the techno bits / wiring / connections etc .... related to the fault need testing.

The fault can also be generated by more than one failed circuit / component.

And yes .. I have a reader and meter and crap as part of the tool kit.
0
FollowupID: 678045

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:00

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:00
If your around the area of a sensor and the fault code dosen't pick it up , wouldn't you be thinking it would be the culprit,.. Yes,, No?.

Cheers Axle
0
FollowupID: 678055

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:26

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:26
No ... coz it might be a relay or a short or a dirty electrical plug or whatever .... Most of the sensors rely on set voltages and resistance to perform properly ... a hi or lo voltage spike or additional resistance elsewhere in the circuit can render a perfectly good sensor useless - but there wont be a thing wrong with the sensor.

Thats the joy of this electronic stuff .... Dozens & dozens of things to check .... instead of just tapping the carby coz the needle got stuck ....
0
FollowupID: 678066

Reply By: mikehzz - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:03

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:03
Probably worried that you can be put out of action by a $2 transistor on a circuit board somewhere being fried by a voltage spike of some sort. Mentally it seems more reassuring to rely on big chunky mechanical cogs, chains or levers which seem more substantial.
Still, I suspect you are right
AnswerID: 408138

Reply By: Members Paul and Melissa (VIC) - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:11

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:11
dont matter really, a broken crank in any motor is going to bring you to a halt regardless of electronics- i just happen to know this................TIC
AnswerID: 408140

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:38

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:38
A broken crank is a much acceptable breakdown than a $10 - sold for $200+ electronic component that doesnt like heat / oil / dirt ... and all the other grime typically found in an 4x4 automotive environment.
0
FollowupID: 678047

Follow Up By: Members Paul and Melissa (VIC) - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:01

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:01
glad you think a broken crank is acceptable!! i dont-i would rather have had the $10 sold for $200 part die so we could have kept going on our 6 week holiday,not having being stuck in birdsville for 4 days and having fly out on the mail plane on day 3!! LOL
0
FollowupID: 678056

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:29

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:29
heh heh .... acceptable in the sense that at least its a REAL reason to be be boiling the billy in the table drain ... lol
0
FollowupID: 678070

Reply By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:37

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:37
G/Day Axle

Just wondering what sort of Makeshift Repairs people have done to get them selves Home or to a Workshop ect, it's amazing how you can adapt things to get mobile again, I don't mean Major Engine Failures, just things that can stop you in your tracks, and a bit of Ingenuity has got them going again, be it just limping as long as they are moving.

Cheers
AnswerID: 408145

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:53

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:53
Will be lots of alby mengels, roothy, russel coight and malcolm douglas stories re-appear for this one ....
0
FollowupID: 678052

Follow Up By: Rockape - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:55

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:55
Daza,
here is one that nearly made me cry.

Did a shockie rubber at the Palmer river, had to cut up my best stepping out thong to make a new one.

Image Could Not Be Found
0
FollowupID: 678053

Follow Up By: Nutta - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:26

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:26
I woulda took it outta the centre : )


Just kiddin!!
0
FollowupID: 678065

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 00:19

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 00:19
I would a took it outa the Mrs.....Hahhahaha
0
FollowupID: 678084

Follow Up By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 08:52

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 08:52
LOL.. Mate, should have cut it out of the instep. The rubbers thicker and you can still wear the thong :-))
0
FollowupID: 678112

Follow Up By: Rockape - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 09:03

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 09:03
These are near new, up market and pre stained thongs. No Crazy Clark's for me, purchased at the world renowned Big W emporium.

If I cut it out of the middle, I would have had to put a hole in the center, thus cutting down on my coldie time.

and Hairy, I don't stuff with the Missus, green eyed blond, they are bloody mean.


Have a good one
0
FollowupID: 678114

Reply By: Dave B ( BHQ NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:48

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:48
The unfortunate thing is that the electronics control just about everything, and if they have a brain fade, what happens then.

Would the grenade have the same reputation if it wasn't electronically controlled?

Dave
'Wouldn't be dead for quids'

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 408148

Reply By: Member - Wayne B (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:51

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 21:51
Fore sure if you have a major mechanical problem with the engine that it can be a huge drama no mater what old or new technology.

Most issues are caused by fuel contamination, blocked filters, or overheating due to water pump, hoses or radiator. Now the old technology will take more abuse when it comes to these thing. Particularly fuel contamination, the new CDI Diesel engines will not.

When it comes to electrical problems the old technology are by far easier to patch up and get going. Example my HJ80 Diesel began flashing all of the warning lights intermittently I asked (on this Forum) if anyone had experiences this problem, within 1/2 hr I had several reply's all saying Plug on back of alternator is dirty, plug on back of alternator needs cleaning ect. . I cleaned the plug problem fixed.

Now you have a modern technology vehicle and experience the engine warning light coming on, ask the same question on the forum and I bet you get a hundred different possible caused.

I will stick with the old thank you

Wayne B
AnswerID: 408149

Follow Up By: Nutta - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:28

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:28
The plug on the back of a hi tech could be the same?
Whats the difference!
0
FollowupID: 678068

Follow Up By: Member - Wayne B (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 00:24

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 00:24
Difference being there are not allot of things that can cause the dash lights to flash on the old vehicle
There are 100s that can cause the same problem on a high technology vehicle and locating which one is not easy. Its not unusual (Tom Jones) to get several codes from a ECU when there is only one component causing the problem.

I work in an area that deals with vehicle complaints so I get to see the bad end of many situations. Generally the modern vehicle is reliable and performance, emissions, fuel economy etc are far superior to the older clunkers. But trust me when something goes wrong particularly if it is intermittent problem it can be a very expensive nightmare.
Cheers
Wayne B
0
FollowupID: 678086

Reply By: Chris11726 - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:05

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:05
I believe modern technology is better. But it could be improved so easily.

When you take your car in to be serviced they plug in a hand held device which tells them any fault codes that have gone off.

Why can't this be integrated into the gps / computer display in the car. So when it does break down in the middle of no where it can say "fuel pressure sensor error" etc.


It has the potential to be an asset not a hindrance.
AnswerID: 408153

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:20

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:20
Chris, i think things will head that way in time, as mentioned above the fault codes don't actually correspond to a failed component at times making it a difficult diagnostic issue with some breakdowns.

Cheers Axle
0
FollowupID: 678064

Follow Up By: Lex M (Brisbane) - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:28

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:28
While I agree in principle, a bit of research will often find an easy way to interrogate the ecu and get the code, perhaps with a paper clip or similar.

Anyone who hasn't done that research probably wouldn't know what the error code meant anyway, wouldn't know what a fuel pressure sensor or whatever looked like or did, or where to find it.

If it's a serious enough failure to prevent going into "limp home mode" are you going to have the component or whatever to fix it anyway?





0
FollowupID: 678069

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:40

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:40
Even dirty ol jeeps from 15yrs plus ago have a self diagnosis system which displays on the dash with a few twists of the ignition key ...

Dont all you fancy toyssan owners have something like that ... or are the "market leaders" still playing catchup ???
0
FollowupID: 678074

Reply By: Rockape - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:05

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:05
Want to change the starter motor on this sucker, out in the bush.

Modern user friendly work engine.

Image Could Not Be Found
AnswerID: 408154

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:12

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:12
Yuck!!!,,,,, Lol.



Cheers Axle
0
FollowupID: 678061

Follow Up By: Nutta - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:31

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:31
Thay foto is photoshopped, cruisers are bullet proof!!!!
Arent they!
0
FollowupID: 678071

Reply By: Nutta - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:30

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:30
I really think these days elctronics are very reliable, and we better get used to it so stop whinging, we're all gunna have tehm in the next 10 to 20!
AnswerID: 408159

Reply By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:30

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:30
I have never had to diagnose a problem on one of the modern CRD or computor controlled petrol engines but the ATV's we sell and service have a neat little rider information display, otherwise known as a speedo. One of its functions that can be accessed by anyone who can count is its ability to display "blink codes"
By a simple matter of turning the ignition on/off on/off on three times and counting how many times a "check engine" icon blinks the system will self diagnose and tell you which sensor or sensors are playing up. Now this on vehicles that use a Bosch or Vistion system (the latter also fitted to Ford so I am told) and costing as relatively little as $12,000. Surely a sophisticated $100,000 or more 4WD can do something similar??? At least you could check simple things like connections to the suspect sensor which seem to cause most of the dramas encountered with these vehicles.
So does anyone know if this is true for modern vehicles?????

Cheers Pop
AnswerID: 408160

Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:43

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 22:43
Some brands have had that feature for a while.
0
FollowupID: 678076

Reply By: dbish - Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 23:42

Tuesday, Mar 09, 2010 at 23:42
Having worked as a mechanic in a country Ford Dealership for 14Yrs I have seen ECU diagnostics go from using a shorting link & counting flashes on a LED to having to plug in a Ford specific diagnostic computer. Fords thinking is to make it as dificult as posible to diagnose faults for a customer or other repairers, so the vehicle is returned to a dealer for diagnosis & repair. Had an intermittent fault with a Ford car in that it would just stop, by the time the customer coasted over to the side of the road it could be re started, very frustrating as every time the car came in the computer said there was no problem!!!!!!! After mutch chasing around it turned out to be the relay feeding power to the ECU, not a common relay $80. I am curious so cut relay apart to find the contacts were badly blackened. Generaly found computer diagnostics dont always what a fault realy is so a lot of time is spent looking for faults & labour charges are not cheap these days. A nother prob these days can be faulty crimp conections in wiring looms & conectors a real pain to find. Because of the extensive use of electronics these days in vehicles so the cost to repair will be high. Cheers Daryl
AnswerID: 408171

Follow Up By: Tim HJ61 (WA) - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 00:54

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 00:54
I had this same problem with my EB Falcon. And the same solution.

Another aspect of relying on ECU diagnostics is exactly this type of problem when the computer doesn't know.

I had a real job of getting the head mechanic and supervisor to sit down with me and problem solve. I would say "this is the scenario when it faults". Then I had to make them work through what drives the fuel supply, what drives the ignition supply, what supplies the computer, until it dawned on them that it may be one of these power relays. Simple problem solving steps; when they were going to turn me around for the fourth time and send me out to inevitably break down again.

Computer diagnostics is deskilling tradesmens intuitive problem solving skills.

In the end the Falcon proved untrustworthy, so I've got an old diesel Landcruiser with no electronics that makes it run.

Tim
0
FollowupID: 678088

Follow Up By: dbish - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 09:43

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 09:43
Hi Tim 14 Yrs ago I did a Ford EFI training course where before computer diagnostics, you was taught how every thing worked & interacted. Training now days doesnt give very good diagnostic skills seems to be a lost skill especialy with younger mechanics. They are wizbangs at reprograming ECUs but lost when it doesnt actually tell them what part is faulty. Cheers Daryl
0
FollowupID: 678125

Reply By: Member - Terry W (ACT) - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 08:33

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 08:33
Back when I was a kid just after the war, I saw several really innovative repairs to the vehicles of that time. I have seen big end bearings replaced with shells made from an aluminium saucepan, a head gasket replaced with jam, and a failed fuel pump bypassed with a gravity fuel feed from a kero tin.

Fencing wire was used for all sorts of minor repairs.

Tin plate cut from 5 pound jam tins was regularly used to rejoin broken exhaust pipes and repair leaks in mufflers (all bound with fencing wire).

In my experience, vehicles then were far more able to be repaired on the road side than modern vehicles, but then they had to be, because they were so more likely to break down.

We may love to hate current electronically controlled vehickles, but they are far less likely to let uis down than the pre-electronic vehicles in my experience at least.
AnswerID: 408189

Reply By: Davo_60 - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 09:41

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 09:41
I don't think there is any great difference in reliability, just in 'fixability'. I agree if something major happens, then you are stuck, but some of the older vehicles are a little easier to work on.

I like that you can assume 500k service life with the old (80's/90's) tech, and injector pumps/injectors etc are affordable to replace. I also like that I can work on them confidently and without pushing past my knowledge/comfort zone. There should be a few clunkers around for a while as plenty of 60 series are still getting around at nearly 30 years old!

Cheers,
Dave
AnswerID: 408195

Reply By: Rangiephil - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 10:52

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 10:52
Boy talk about Luddites!

Most Injection sender faults will not stop the car. it will go into Limp Home Mode and still go. You know something is wrong but it will do as advertised. How many carbys will go with a blocked main jet?

How many of you have EVER had a breakdown caused by an ECU failing? I will bet very few or none. How often has your radio stopped working if not wet. I bet very few. same tech.

I carry a spare ECU anyway but have never had a problem with electronics on a car . And my Rangie is 18 years old with Lucas electrics. I fitted a 20+ year old injection set to an old Range Rover and she started first time and never missed a beat.

Most problems in electrics are caused by mechanical devices, alternators, and relays. that is the first place I look and even old non electronic cars have these.

And with diesels the most common problem is still the old filter. Why diesel owners do not always carry a couple of spares is beyond me.

To me the most important spare items on any car are fuel pump, starter motor and alternator and belts and filters.
Regard sPhilip A.

AnswerID: 408208

Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 17:06

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 17:06
Luddites! - I think you have that wrong Philip

Not apposed to new technology - Just how do you fix it on the side of the road compared to the old technology?
0
FollowupID: 678190

Follow Up By: Member - Axle - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 19:49

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 19:49
Phillip!, I own a landrover Product!, Ummmm!!, i think you had better talk to a few TD5 owners as to how well you can limp home with a electrical fault??

Cheers Axle
0
FollowupID: 678209

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (14)