Tyres........again & again & again

Submitted: Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 01:50
ThreadID: 76731 Views:5747 Replies:12 FollowUps:21
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My Cooper st's are going to god after 80K's of solid work. I'm happy with trheir performance although I reckon they are soft in the side (staked 3 and of course unrepairable (not bad spares though) ).My problem is that I need to wear hearing aids and the road noise all but eliminates conversation with my wife. Some would say this is a positive in marketing but not I (she's watching!). Looking at Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armor. We drive a patrol and tow a cub campertrailer mainly around the Goldfields (WA),the Great Sandy Desert area and the Pilbara. Lots of off road and no road stuff but not "extreme"4X4. What do you reckon?

Regards

Quentin
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Reply By: Member - TonBon (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 06:00

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 06:00
Quentin, have a look at thread 76697 that i posted, had some fantastic responses in regards to Bridgstone Dueler 694 LT's, especially from RobAck who has been using them for near on 8 years.
AnswerID: 408183

Reply By: Snowy 3.0iTD - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 08:01

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 08:01
Quentin

If you are after a tread pattern of similar aggressiveness, Mickey Thompson MTZ's, they are not nearly as noisy as you describe, that noisy would drive me nuts, cetrainly wouldn't have put up with them for 80K's. The last set of MTZ and my current set are great, good on the road, brilliant off it, I do lots of dirt-track km's, at speeds of between 70-100 kph on the good stuff, had them smoking trying to get up over rock ledges and never had to have a puncture repaired yet.

Snowy.
AnswerID: 408188

Follow Up By: Member - Don M- Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 16:54

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 16:54
Well Geez, the Coopers must be like a jet engine then....!!!

I have just put the Mickey Thompson Baja ATZ 4 rib on my 200 and they are as noisy as hell. Great tyre but the noise id already driving my wife mad and guess who's fault that is. I'd hate to hear how noisy the MTZ's are if mine are ATZ's...maybe yours are quiter than the ATZ.

I'm wishing I got the 5 rib now but too late and, to tell you the truth, if Bridgestone did the LT694 Duelers in my size, that's what I would have gone for.
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Follow Up By: Snowy 3.0iTD - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 17:09

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 17:09
Don

I have previously run MTZ's on my Patrol and never had a problem with noise. On my 100 Series TD I have just replaced the original Dunlop GrandTreks with MTZ's and sprayed a couple of cans of sound-deadening paint in to the wheel arches. With the windows up at highway speed, there is only a slight increase in cabin noise, normal conversation is still possible without raising the voice. Around town with the windows down there is a slight increase in noise over the Grandtreks but nothing I am going to get upset with, if I put the foot down the engine still generates the most noise.

One theory I did hear which makes sense to me as an engineer, is to avoid tyres that have lugs that are all identical, if they are all the same this will set up harmonic sound waves, and give you the spit-fire hum. Having gone from Goodyear MTR's to MT MTZ's that have alternating lugs on my Partol, there was a definite reduction in the amount of noise, so may be some substance to it.

Snowy
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Follow Up By: QS - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 23:31

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 23:31
Thanks Snowy, I am looking at MT MTZ's tomorrow but it is interesting that not a lot is talked about Goodyear. I wonder why that is?

Regards

Quentin
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Follow Up By: Snowy 3.0iTD - Thursday, Mar 11, 2010 at 07:59

Thursday, Mar 11, 2010 at 07:59
QS

They don't make the Goodyear Wrangler MTR's anymore, and the new ones are very expensive, more than $50/tyre more than any others when I was chasing prices.

Snowy
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Reply By: Member - Allan B (QLD) - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 09:54

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 09:54
Quentin, helpful tip:

If you wear two hearing aids, when in the driver's seat switch-off the right ear leaving the left on to hear your wife. If in passenger sear, vice versa of course. This significantly reduces road noise.

As an extra, you could even replace one hearing aid with an ear-plug.

Cheers
Allan

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AnswerID: 408199

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 12:06

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 12:06
Who needs hearing aids ? After x years marriage most blokes have developed 'selective' hearing according to their wives. LOL
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Follow Up By: Member - Allan B (QLD) - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 15:00

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 15:00
According to my audiologist wife it is known as Matrimonial Hearing Loss !!!

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: QS - Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 00:25

Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 00:25
Thanks Allan, I guess you to wear aids. I have two aids that are automatic and omni directional but I can and have used the manual directional over ride to no avail.I think that the noise reverberates around the cavernous internals of the patrol and negates any direction. We also have a Subaru impreza and I have no difficulties. Thanks for you thoughts.

Regards

Quentin
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Reply By: JR - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 11:32

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 11:32
Have got the heavy ply rated version? AND have you got LT version
Im pretty sure theres 8 and 10 ply rated in LT construction

Not many others have stronger walls than 10 ply ST's?
Ive had 10ply ST- C which were very good on hard dirt tracks, wore a bit faster than normal ST though
AnswerID: 408219

Follow Up By: QS - Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 00:31

Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 00:31
Thanks JR, I do have the LT version. My understanding is that the tyres that I have are 10 ply but are two ply side walls as are most similar tyres with the exception of Goodyear and BF Goodrich which are 3 ply on the walls.

Regards

Quenti
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Reply By: Member - Tony V (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 11:50

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 11:50
Although a Cooper STT user, I would suggest the Mickey Thompson ATZ which has a bigger block tread than the Cooper ST and is much quieter.

I initially thought they may be a bit tame for the rough stuff until I saw them used in the bush last weekend.

I will replace my "road tyres" Bridgestone Duelers (Australian 693 pattern) which I do not rate at all for anything but tar and gravel.
AnswerID: 408221

Follow Up By: Member - Don M- Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 17:22

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 17:22
Like I said above Tony, I would be very upset if I bought Coopers in that case..., my MT ATZ 4 ribs are as noisy as hell, at least compared to the OEM...Dunlop AT22 which are very quiet but not much chop off road. The Mickey T's look more like muddies in any other make of tyre and reports from those with more experience than me, say they are a terrific tyre...here's hoping

SWMBO is NOT impressed with the noise and the fact that they are much better off road doesn't wash, so I'm copping it a bit...!!!
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Reply By: OldMike - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 11:58

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 11:58
I too would be interested in peoples thoughts on the Goodyears, as they are having a sale of 4 for the price of three at our local dealer, who recommended the Wrangler Silent Armor. Are they no good or what?

Mike
AnswerID: 408223

Follow Up By: QS - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 16:27

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 16:27
Thanks Mike, can you give an indication who the dealer is please (ie Beaurepair etc, etc) and in which state?
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Follow Up By: OldMike - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 20:31

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 20:31
Local Goodyear dealer in Wangaratta, Victoria

But surely must be others as it didn't seem to be his promotion.

Mike
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Follow Up By: QS - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 23:34

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 23:34
Not in the West but Beaurepair are offering a 20% discount which is close to your offer.
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Reply By: Bryan (WA) - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 13:54

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 13:54
I have the Goodyear MTR's - the original set did 80k (never staked them) before I swapped them out for the new updated version which now has Kevlar belts in the sidewalls for extra protection against staking/damage and the obvious protection from stray bullets.
They are brilliant offroad, and quite on the road so far. but can guarantee once they are half worn, the road noise will start as they did with the original set...

Interestingly, I never see anyone mention the goodyears - am I the only one using them on here??

regards
Bryan
AnswerID: 408235

Follow Up By: QS - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 23:42

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 23:42
Thanks Bryan, I reckon I took a ricochet from your side walls. You weren't in Walcott St North Perth about a year ago? I picked up a wire straight through the side wall! Couldn't believe it but thats what happens when you go on road.
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Reply By: Gossy - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 14:54

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 14:54
changing for noise is fair enough but will the human ear really hear much difference?
To be honest I don't see changing tyres because of side wall stakes as realistic. Are you saying that those stakes would not have gone through another brand?? No tyre is bullet proof and never will be.

I suggest that if you got 80,000 good km's why change? Tyres get staked, aggressive treads do make noise (compared to road treads); can't defy the law of physics.

Cheers,
AnswerID: 408241

Follow Up By: QS - Thursday, Mar 11, 2010 at 00:10

Thursday, Mar 11, 2010 at 00:10
Thanks Gossy, I am not fortunate to have normal hearing but I can tell you that hearing aids are designed to amplify certain sounds to assist the hearing impaired. Unfortunately they are not intelligent and cannot be sound specific as your hearing iis. I don't believe that I indicated that I am changing tyres because of side wall staking.Indeed I expect some staking in the areas that we travel, However, we would like to explore the possibility that some tyres are less prone to staking than others. Why Change you say. I am hopeful that some advances in the understanding of your law of physics may offer a better option today than was available 4 yrs ago and perhaps they are with the introduction of kevlar into tyre production. I enjoyed your input and thanks again
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Reply By: Member - Duncs - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 15:42

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 15:42
I have a mate who runs the Silent Armour MTR's and loves them. If you look closesly at them you will notice that the size of the tread blocks varies around the circumgerence of the tyre. This is supposed to reduce road noise.

I am currently running my third set of Cooper ST/C's, getting about 70k out of them without doing the regular rotations and they are not overly noisy. I think overall they are probably the best tyre I have used and I have no hesitation in recommending them.

But if you can get 4 MTR's for the price of 3 they would be very hard to beat. In fact I might go shopping myself.

Duncs
AnswerID: 408249

Follow Up By: Member - Brenton H (SA) - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 21:08

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 21:08
I'm currently running Silent Armour MTR's.
They have worn very well so far and have taken them to some pretty rough places with no problem evidenced so far.
BUT...I wouldn't call them quiet on the road IMHO.

Brenton
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FollowupID: 678228

Reply By: Ballfyboy - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 22:38

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 22:38
Quentin,
It might seem a little confusing, but there is 2 different tires, Wrangler SA MTR (mud) & Wrangler SA (AT). Previously I have run 2 sets of Wrangler SA, one on a Mazda Bravo and the other on my Mitsubishi Challenger. I found both to be fantastic medium aggressive AT tires that were very quiet on the road and fantastic grip on wet bitumen. I gave them quite a work out on gravel roads and they also got me up all the intermediate tracks at Landcruiser Mountain Park that I was prepared to tackle. They have a characteristic of a very stiff side wall due to the kevlar and being an LT construction. I never got a puncture on either set. They give very, very good mileage for me. I did about 30k on both sets prior to trading the cars in and they still looked very new. In sand, due to the stiff side walls you need to let them down a fair bit. After playing around for a while, I now start at 15psi and go down from there. We had to do a long high tide beach run at Fraser Island at christmas and we sat on 70 to 80 with no problems.

I have just upgraded to a new PB Challenger and have put on a set of Mickey Thompson ATZ 4 rib to see what I was missing out on. I can tell you that they are very loud compared to the Goodyears. I purchased them because I like to try different things to make up my own mind. I have no doubt that they are a fantastic tire off road, however for my money, when they wear out I will go back to the Goodyear SA. It suits my style of driving (family touring).

Good luck.
AnswerID: 408309

Follow Up By: QS - Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 23:56

Wednesday, Mar 10, 2010 at 23:56
Thanks Ballfyboy, No I'm not confused yet although some of the benificiaries of my will are suggesting I am. My wife and I have been doing this for 40 yrs now. Our first trip was just after we were married in '72 (19 that is) when we drove our Hillman Hunter from Perth to Brisbane. The Nullabor hadn't seen bitumen at that point and I think our tyres may have been solid rubber (this is an attempt at llevity)! I spoke with our local tyre man today and he tells me that the Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armror should be run at a minimum of 40pi at home and increased on gravel and should not be decreased less than 20 PSI in sand. This is not what I normally do. What do yo reckon?
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FollowupID: 678265

Follow Up By: Ballfyboy - Thursday, Mar 11, 2010 at 07:21

Thursday, Mar 11, 2010 at 07:21
Sorry, I did not mean that you were confused, just that Goodyear make it confusing by calling 2 different tires Silent Armor!. My Tire guy used to inflate mine to 41psi, however my thoughts were for around town unloaded I found that 38 psi was about right for me. On a trip loaded up I jacked it up to the 41 psi. I combined the old fashion 3psi rule together with the highly accurate seat of the pants rule :-)

On gravel/touring roads I dropped pressure to 25psi and kept speed below about 80 for safety and to prevent to much heat buildup. I also towed my camper like this.

On sand, as I mentioned that they have very stiff side walls, I was having all sorts of problems even at 18psi. I have been experimenting and at 16 things got acceptable but the answer for me really was 14 or 15psi. I find it amazing that at these pressures you can actually feel a difference of a psi when driving, but I believe that you do.

On the hard tracks at Landcruiser Mountain Park I dropped them to 16psi and gave them heaps. Both my vehicles are relatively light however so I am unsure if this makes a difference to anything.

I found that the above worked for me, and I did not experience and problems.
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Follow Up By: QS - Thursday, Mar 11, 2010 at 17:25

Thursday, Mar 11, 2010 at 17:25
G'day Ballffyboy, No offence taken and to add to the confusion, I spoke with Goodyea rHQ in Melbourne today. They tell me that there is indeed two Silent Armor Wranglers. The first is just known as the Wrangler Silent Armor and is rated as 50:50 on road/ off road and they are made in America. The second is known as Wrangler ATSA (all terrain silent armor) and are rated 70:30 and are made in Indonesia. I was advised by Goodyear to opt for the 50:50 made in America tyres as in their view they are of a superior quality than the Indonesian "Clones". They are marginally more expensive (I was quoted a $15 difference) but difficult to buy as demand is high. They do have kevlar accross the tread pattern but this does not extend to the sidewalls which are 3 ply and by all accounts one of the strongest on the market and with a low road noise level. On the matter of tyre pressure I am pretty much the same as you. I was interested in this "new" direction of increasing rather than decreasing pressure on gravel. The reason given iis that there is less ballooning and so less side wall damage. The reason for not less than 20psi in sand was given that the rim will tend to spin on the tyre at lower pressures because of the harder sidewalls (we are only talking Wrangler silent armor here).
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Follow Up By: Ballfyboy - Thursday, Mar 11, 2010 at 23:15

Thursday, Mar 11, 2010 at 23:15
That is an interesting theory regarding the rim spinning. I suppose with the HP/Torque that some engines are putting out that could be a growing concern, never thought about it. I don't think that will concern me anytime soon LOL.

Both my sets were made in the USA.

I will be interested in your perceptions once you decide which way you will go.
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Reply By: howesy - Thursday, Mar 11, 2010 at 08:32

Thursday, Mar 11, 2010 at 08:32
Wranglers are rubbish but thats just my opinion, a cheap tyre that wears just as good as your cooper (but dont they all) try Kumho there are a couple of different variants Ive had 4 sets in the family all had good service when looked after.
AnswerID: 408334

Reply By: JR - Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 07:49

Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 07:49
Dont get confused by "number of plys" and "ply rating", even 10 py may only have a few accross the tyre but ply rating is representitive of strength
Cooper ST-C has another layer too SNOW??? Not sure what it does.
I ued to stake walls a bit, 3 or 4 a year and since switching to ST-C havent even had a puncture, Had 5 sets now.
Price is frustrating, same now as when $USD was 0.70.
AnswerID: 408516

Follow Up By: QS - Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:22

Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 12:22
5 Sets !! Don't they wear too well?
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Follow Up By: JR - Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 17:29

Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 17:29
Ha!
Each sets did between 80 and 95000km
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