Indian Pacific access road

Peter, thanks for your advice last year on this, you wre spot on with your description and it was nice to get out there knowing what to expect and seeing it the way it was described. Cheers again. I will also be sending you a PM regarding the Cub.

Tony.

Thanks Peter.so do I conclude it is not possible to access road from say Tarcoola west to Haig? John Willard

I seriosly doubt there is next g coverdge alont the track - certainly isnt for most of the way fro perth to kalgoorlie

Re NextG coverage, some U.S. friends just recently came across on the Trans, and they had NextG internet surfing all the way across the Nullarbor. I was surprised. Pity Telstra couldn't offer the same service along the Eyre highway (just Norseman and Eucla on the WA side). There are enough old microwave towers along the way to easily set up a decent service.

I had 3G coverage the whole time i was on the Trans Access road. There are repeater aerials all the way along, presumably for the train.

The brown areas show the Telstra network coverage. It does show it following the railway line, be it all very narrow though (hard to see on the picture below).

Image Could Not Be Found

must be used for some kinda data transmission?

any way like i said when taking the prospecter fro perth to kal i could only get occasional Next g reception at a guess about 20% of the time

The narrow strip of coverage would indicate that Telstra have arranged antennas beaming the signal east and west along the line, with no radiation to the north or south. Makes good sense. Their business plan must indicate that it was worth putting these bases in along the route, but I would have thought that the Eyre Highway would also have made sense, economically. Both highway and railway line have optical fibres running along them, so both routes would be easy to provide the service, esp as there are unused microwave towers standing along the highway.

I found that we did have coverage at up to 60k above and below the line but you had to be in an elevated position. Was a disappointment to find there was large stretches of the Eyre highway with none while the trans road had 100%, this was also the case at the eastern end from as far south as Mt finke on Goos track and all the way into Kingoonya.
We spent a cold, wet and windy night camped near Haigh in a bit of depression, Had full strength Next G and surfed the net for a few hours sitting in the Shippshape, was too windy to have a fire despite having a huge mound of old railway sleepers nearby.

Surely its got something to do with data transmission from the IP?

cant see that it would just be there for the train drivers and passengers to make calls and errant 4wders to surf the net

especially when you consider most of the nullarbour has no coveradge

The NextG is there for commercial reasons to provide the services they provide everywhere else around the country. Somebody in Telstra reckons that it's a viable money-maker to provide it to passengers and possibly rail maintenance gangs, but also it provides mobile service to the Telstra staff who maintain the fibre along the route. It's also possible that GS Rail have chosen to use NextG rather than a trunked radio system for their internal comms along the route, both for cheaper install and for cheaper maintenance reasons, and there may have been a commercial arrangement with Telstra to provide this. It is quite common for Telstra to come to a commercial arrangement with private companies in remote areas.
Big-time data services are provided by the optical fibre that runs along there. There will be drop/insert data points on the fibre wherever a mobile base is installed to feed that base.
Gerry

it is fairly normal for rail maintenance operations staff to use their mobiles as a supplement to any other forms of comms they may have. In some cases it may be the only form of comms they have access to!

Thank you Stephen,your knowledge and advice appears conclusive and I appreciate same..Cheers John Willard

Who does the 'catching', and who issues the fines?? (how much??)

And where exactly are the 'Private Property' / 'Keep Out' / 'No Access' signs??

One more.. Who actually 'owns' the real estate under which the Telstra cable trench runs??

Just askin'........................

;-)

Have there been any reported occurrences of fines being levied? A number of people have gone right through, understanding that a high fee will be incurred if in case of a breakdown the train is stopped or if it has to stop to deliver parts.

Motherhen

Hi Ed
It comes under the Commonwealth juristriction.

Ring Great Southern Railways and they will tell you all that I have told above.

I don't make the laws, as I wanted to travel this route a couple of years back and has told by a very strict person on the phone that was law and be warned if caught on the track. I was told that the train drivers will radio ahead information of vehicles seen on the track. It may be a big country, by there is only one track and no where to hide.

It is just like Drink Driving, it is against the Law, but people still get caught.


Cheers.


Stephen

Stephen

Its not quite the same as drink driving.

Drink driving has been scientifically linked to an increased risk of collision/injury.

Driving along the trackside road is completely harmless. In fact, its legal in some parts but not in others. West of Rawlinna is OK, but East is illegal.

Just bureaucratic nonsense.

Bob

Bob
It may be bureacratic nonsense, BUT until Gt Southern Rail change the rules it is still ILLEGAL.

Essentially it is trespassing.

Disco.

How far on either side of the line does the Gt. Southern jurisdiction extend ??

:)

I'd take your number plates off, plenty of white, brown, silver red, blue and any colour vehilces you can describe.

no number no fine, unless your unlucky to be caught????

I'm not authorising anyone to comit a crime, but expressing a point of veiw.

The way i see it if there's no signs stippulating itis

1: Private property, then legally you are able to drive travel said area

2: you are taking lots of photo's then you can prove there was no acess signs pressent.

3: if you do recieve a fine, infringement notice and youcan prove there are no forms of advisement of said private property then you should be able to contest on the grounds that they (landowners) have not done there responibility of public announcement that enclosed lands are private and no entry is permitted.

south australia land act thingy

technicaly i think you would be able to claim a "duty of care", there "Duty of Care" is to erect signs saying that this land is private, any entry on it is and enclosed lands act,or private. There duty of care is also to say that if you breaching the boundry and if you hurt yourself on these lands then you are to be fined and no course for any payout etc.

I'm not a lawyer but that would be my arguement.
safety signs, why needed.

on two sites it state tht "BY LAW SIGNS SHOULD BE POSTED TO RESTRICATED AREA'S", hmmm so does that mean southern rail is in breach of OH&S laws As well as Lands act laws. Then if they are then they are in breach. a very smart lawyer should be able to get you off the fine and put the blame squarely at the feet of southern rail for not signing posts, providing a barrier to prevent un authorised entry...
inclosed lands

still looking for the lands act. will post here when i find what i am looking for.



Sorry thats my 2 cents worth.

Chris
Laws are made for reasons and many times the general public may not like or agree with what has been gazetted, and there have been cases where peoples lives have been put in danger because of four wheel drivers that are ill prepared and go where they should not be.

That strip of land falls under the Commonwealth Federal Police. A friend on mine, a then senior sergeant in the SA Police has travelled that track when officer in charge of Coober Pedy. Before he retired, he would loved to have travelled the track as a fellow four wheel driver, but would not do so as he personally knew what could have been at stake.

Many locations have been closed to all traffic around Australia, because to the actions of a very small minority of irresponsible four wheel drivers. What you have written is encouraging drivers to go out there and take on the law.

You must remember that this forum is read by the general internet community world wide and we need to give responsible and accurate information on this site and do the right thing weather we like it or not, as we do not want even more great locations closed because to the actions of a few Four Wheel Drivers that feel that they can go anywhere because they own a four wheel drive.

I personal do not agree that responsible drives are bared from this track, but the Law is there and me must all be responsible and not give misleading facts so others feel that they will just give it a go, just because someone said that they would like to take on the law.



Cheers


Stephen

Hi Stephan, I do apologise, the point I am trying to make is if they fine you and THERE ARE NO SIGN"S saying off limits then they are breaching the law.

It's there responsibility to put signs up. it comes under "duty of care".

is it marked on the map as restricted access? if so then you would be in breech.

I have had my fair share of run-ins with police, and currently in dispute with them and the advocate generals due to personal stuff.

You appreciate a Good copper when you meet one.

Sorry if I am not making sense, was so tired last night i couldn't sleep.

I have maybe or maybe not driven along rail accessroads west of kalgoorlie and they certainly have signs where roads cross the railway saying travel is prohibeted

Thank you.

Isnt the railway a private company? While I know that sections of Commonwealth Law cover access to these types of areas, do not necessarily believe it to be so, just because "told by a very strict person on the phone" not to do it.

It may well be a similar situation to the Oil Companies, who tell all that there is a 5 mile "exclusion zone" around their offshore installations. When in fact a close examination of the Submerged Lands Act shows it to be a "Cautionary Zone" and the "Exclusion" is only 500 meters.

If you got calls daily asking to drive thru your block of land what would you say?

Just go ahead and do it without advertising on the internet would have been the best bet by far I reckon, sans number plates.

Fisho 64
The strip of land is classed as private property and is under the control of the Australian Rail Track Corporation. I have spoken to them a couple of times to see if they would ever have a change of heart and they never have ever issued a single permit and have no intentions of changing policy.

Like I said, the Law is the Law even though we do not like it. Drive the track and get caught and be prepared for some very hefty fines.

Stephen

Each State has its own Rail Safety Act - these specify the dimensions of the rail corridor and the requirements for access to the rail corridor and other rail lands. So, for example, in NSW, only accredited personnel can enter the corridor. Non-accredited personnel can enter, but they have to do it under the direction of, and be accompanied by an accredited person. Accreditation is normally achieved by formal training and testing. In NSW even the type of fluoro safety vest is specified, to be worn by all, at all times whilst in the corridor.

I think the country lines are all leased to ARTC (Australian Rail Track Corporation) and they allow train operators, like the GSR, to use the track for a fee. Not sure who the landowner is though - in country NSW, I think it is RailCorp, who lease the lines to ARTC.

The lessee of the line is responsible for maintenance of the line and infrastructure. They are also responsible for managing access to the corridor, and this includes the use of the corridor for fixed line and mobile comms, power lines, particular forms of level crossings, bridges etc. Anything physical which crosses the corridor above or below ground is subject to conditions, and requires approval or agreement.

"Access" also covers anyone of the public, like us, who thinks there are no safety issues associated with entering the corridor and just because it is not signposted, believe the onus of responsibility is on the landowner/lessee in terms of duty of care. Well, you're in for a shock - you also have a duty of care, and despite our increasingly litigious environment, you are expected to demonstrate some commonsense of your own. And ignorance is no excuse. Even telco personnel have been evicted from rail corridors when they were there without permission.

Next time you're out there see if you can find some railway workers and have a chat to them about how easy it is to get caught out by an approaching train. Or talk to one of the train drivers - they usually bear the brunt of someone being in the rail corridor illegally.

Hope this helps?
LES

Can I issue fines if someone trespasses on my land?

Please Stephen, tell me how to do it!

If you read what I wrote mate, it says that there is basically no obligation for the company to tell you the law. If you are stupid enough to to accept what they tell you as gospel then fine. What Im saying is check it out for yourself.

Hi fisho64
I am no legal person, but do what I have done and ring Bob Sampson at the Australian Rail Track Corporation. He will give you the run down and like I said above, Bob will tell you that they never have and never will issue permits.

I am only passing on advise directly given by the Corporation that is in charge of that strip of land.

Part of being a responsible four wheel driver, is playing by the umpires rules, even though we may not agree with them.


Cheers


Stephen

fish064,

You could issue fines, if you had the legislation to support you, as the organisations responsible for the rail corridor & lands, & the maintenance and the train operations do.

I think checking with ARTC, as Stephen has done, is as good as you're going to get, unless you want to employ your own legal team. I can tell you that better men than us have tried and failed to get the rail companies to 'adjust' their policies. Bear in mind that it is all driven by the various Rail Safety Acts, rather than any Lands legislation.

The groups that exist in these rail companies are very familiar with the legal aspects of being in the corridor, because it applies to them as well - they have to comply and are subject to regular audits by independant regulators. However because they have to work there, these organisations are properly set up to make sure their personnel are accredited/approved/cleared for access.

As a general rule, no access is available to the general public, except on station platforms and public level crossings. The only time you would be able to get a 'permit' is to allow you to carry out work in the corridor. For example, Telco installers and maintainers would be able to approval to enter and work in the corridor. And I think on all country lines now (certainly where diesel train operations take place, rather than electrified operations) ARTC is the approval authority.

As an observation, the requirements of the various Rail Safety Acts are not widely known or publicised - definitely a case of watch out if you choose to flout the law, because if you get caught you will be dealt with.

LES

na you guys are lost here.
What I am saying is that they have a vested interest in telling you that, whether its the truth or not. And it may well be correct.
But my experience of resource companies goes along a similar line, where they will tell you what suits but closer examination sometimes shows it not to be the full story. Because they dont want you to know the full story. And they have no obligation whatsoever to tell you.

Stephen, just like if a cop pulls you up and tells you your 2" lift or tyres are illegal and gives you a canary. Do you just believe him, remove the tyres and lift and put it over the pits? Or check it out for yourself? Anyone who didnt if they had the slightest doubt is as much a guppy as the person giving out the dodgy info.

Anyone who blindly believes what people in "authority" tells them is a mug, and is doing the same thing as all those fooled by Hitler, Bush, Hussein, Milosivich and million other more minor pollies and beaurocrats over the years.

What about in the Pilbara? I understand that access is available to BHP rail maintenance tracks?

Fisho,
Of course they have a vested interest in telling you what you obviously don't want to hear. They have a vested control of the tracks and also the adjacent lands, which incidently may be as wide as 500m on either side, if they decide not to allow vehicles other that their own on the land under their control.................... well bloody well SO BE IT.

The Pilbara rail maintenance tracks are also private land, the owner of it has decided to allow access under certain conditions.
Again that is their perogative and their decision.

It is absolutely no different to you wanting to drive on my property, if I say "No" and you still do it, you are trespassing and can be charged if I wish to pursue the matter. You can argue all you like..........but it won't force me to change my mind

I do not have to give a reason for my decision.

Neither does the Rail Track Authority.

END OF STORY>

Umm-I dont recall ever trying to change your mind disco?

I understand that the rail access isnt private land, its public land they have access and rights over. Big diff from freehold land..

yawn-whatever!

Dion

I followed your advice.

Here are the track diagrams from their website ARTC

Bob

Here is a less detailed map showing the track and all stations between Adelaide and Kalgoorlie track map.