ABS Braking

Submitted: Thursday, Feb 21, 2002 at 01:00
ThreadID: 775 Views:1854 Replies:9 FollowUps:4
This Thread has been Archived
Had an interesting training session with a guy the other day. When I started to explain to him about braking techniques on loose surfaces he said don't worry about that I have ABS, I said even more reason to know about it as ABS does not work very well on dirt. I did a braking demonstration for him first with ABS from 40 klm then with ABS disconnected and from the same speed at the same place on the road stopped slightly more than a car length shorter. The car in question was a Jackaroo Monterey yet I have had similar experience with all of the ABS systems I have tried. After training this person was also able to beat his ABS system on a loose surface. Due to litigation I am not able to tell people to disconnect their ABS systems on loose surfaces I just ask them to use their discretion.
Any ABS incidents out there?
Cheers Rob
Cairns Offroad Training & Tours
www.4wdtraining.com
4wdtraining@cairns.net.au
www.cedarparkresort.com.au

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Reply By: tim fitzgerald - Thursday, Feb 21, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Feb 21, 2002 at 01:00
Hi rob, havent crashed yet,but the abs on my gu patrol 2000 td model is absolute nightmare.easy to overrun breaking distance at T intersections and nat parks drainage humps,also problem is worse again with van attached,almost impossible to stop on wet dirt roads.
AnswerID: 2165

Reply By: Col - Thursday, Feb 21, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Feb 21, 2002 at 01:00
I have ABS on my TD Jackaroo and have found out how to get the best out of it in off road situations. Like anything if you learn to use your vehicle's features correctly and drive within their limits then there should be no problem.
AnswerID: 2166

Follow Up By: Cairns Offroad Training & Tours - Friday, Feb 22, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Feb 22, 2002 at 01:00
Interested to hear your technique Col, as an instructor I am keen to learn.
Cheers Rob
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FollowupID: 765

Reply By: Steve - Thursday, Feb 21, 2002 at 01:00

Thursday, Feb 21, 2002 at 01:00
Rob: How many of the WRC rally cars use ABS ? Well I can tell you -- NONE

Hope that helps you !
steve
AnswerID: 2167

Reply By: Andrew - Friday, Feb 22, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Feb 22, 2002 at 01:00
Interesting, what is the greater resistance , the ABS allowing a rolling tyre on a loose medium, or the friction of a tyre skidding and breaking through that loose medium to some degree....
ABS was designed to allow driver control over the steering of a braking vehicle, which is best accomplished with rolling steer tyres, the people that were described above not using ABS are competent enough to still have steer control of their vehicle, while skidding, generally in a known or controlled environment.
ABS may well be over engineered for a lot of competent 4WD driver applications.
In rally cars, they have the luxury of front and rear brake bias, to apportion maximum braking to the front and or rear or either as required, ie.. corners, and a lot more skill and training and knowledge of their vehicles and environment.
God help us if someone ever puts ABS onto caravans or trailers..........
AnswerID: 2170

Reply By: Andrew - Friday, Feb 22, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Feb 22, 2002 at 01:00
Interesting..., what is the greater resistance, the ABS allowing a rolling tyre on a loose medium, or the friction of a tyre skidding and breaking through that loose medium to some degree....
ABS was designed to allow driver control over the steering of a braking vehicle, which is best accomplished with rolling steer tyres, the people that were described above not using ABS are competent enough to still have steer control of their vehicle, while skidding, generally in a known or controlled environment.
ABS may well be over engineered for a lot of competent 4WD driver applications.
In rally cars, they have the luxury of front and rear brake bias, to apportion maximum braking to the front and or rear or either as required, ie.. corners, and a lot more skill and training and knowledge of their vehicles and environment.
God help us if someone ever puts ABS onto caravans or trailers..........
Maybe manufacturers should be saying that ABS gives more/easier driver steer control in emergency braking, not necessarily shorter stopping distance, as seems the furfy.
Wombats still buy $50,000 plus 4WD's!!!
AnswerID: 2171

Reply By: Andrew - Friday, Feb 22, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Feb 22, 2002 at 01:00
Interesting..., what is the greater resistance, the ABS allowing a rolling tyre on a loose medium, or the friction of a tyre skidding and breaking through that loose medium to some degree....
ABS was designed to allow driver control over the steering of a braking vehicle, which is best accomplished with rolling steer tyres, the people that were described above not using ABS are competent enough to still have steer control of their vehicle, while skidding, generally in a known or controlled environment.
ABS may well be over engineered for a lot of competent 4WD driver applications.
In rally cars, they have the luxury of front and rear brake bias, to apportion maximum braking to the front and or rear or either as required, ie.. corners, and a lot more skill and training and knowledge of their vehicles and environment.
God help us if someone ever puts ABS onto caravans or trailers..........
Maybe manufacturers should be saying that ABS gives more/easier driver steer control in emergency braking, not necessarily shorter stopping distance, as seems the furfy.
Wombats still buy $50,000+ 4WD's!!!
AnswerID: 2172

Reply By: Colin - Friday, Feb 22, 2002 at 01:00

Friday, Feb 22, 2002 at 01:00
ABS and 'road' tyres fitted to 4WD are a result of legislation and the speed modern vehicles are capable of. In an emergency stop on a bitumen road, "Joe Bloggs" will probably stop quicker with ABS - he is the 'bottom line'. Locked front wheels on any surface will only allow the car to go straight ahead and controlling this requires training. Regardless of ABS on or off, stopping a heavy fast moving 4WD is difficult. My solution ---- SLOW DOWN.
AnswerID: 2173

Follow Up By: Andrew - Saturday, Feb 23, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Feb 23, 2002 at 01:00
good advice Colin, I agree, being a tad more cautious and slower when required may prevent the emergency occurring....
to the readers of exploroz.com, sorry about the repeat of message 4,5,6, as you can see this ol' wombat has problems driving his P.C.
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FollowupID: 769

Follow Up By: James - Sunday, Feb 24, 2002 at 01:00

Sunday, Feb 24, 2002 at 01:00
Very good advice. I don't think disconnecting the ABS is in the interests of the vast majority of 4 wheel drivers - slowing down is.
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FollowupID: 774

Reply By: sean - Monday, Feb 25, 2002 at 01:00

Monday, Feb 25, 2002 at 01:00
ABS on my 2000 GU 3.0 DI patrol mean NO brakes on loose dirt and bulldust. The only way to slow down is to use the gears. Nissan should fix it because it just the brakes are effectively defective in some situations.

Sean
AnswerID: 2187

Reply By: Alex - Wednesday, Feb 27, 2002 at 01:00

Wednesday, Feb 27, 2002 at 01:00
G'day,
As Andrew said, ABS is designed to allow you to retain steering control of the vehicle under heavy braking, which
you don't have with locked (skidding) front wheels. It was never designed to stop the vehicle quicker. The main trick with an ABS equipped
vehicle is to keep pushing the pedal as hard as you can, regardless of what it does or what noises (bangs and clonks) come from the cars
front end. Without ABS, the only way to retain steering control under hard braking is the old 'pulse braking' technique.
Another thought - NEVER EVER swerve to try and miss a roo on the road. Hit the brakes and keep goping straight - you may bend the front of the car,
but thats far better than a roll-over at speed. Cheers, Alex.
AnswerID: 2212

Follow Up By: Pat - Saturday, Mar 09, 2002 at 01:00

Saturday, Mar 09, 2002 at 01:00
Great advice... a couple of years too late :-).
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FollowupID: 837

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