boggy wheels

Submitted: Wednesday, Apr 21, 2010 at 20:59
ThreadID: 77910 Views:5175 Replies:12 FollowUps:13
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Not being an engineer is there any reason why dual wheels on a caravan can"t be like on semi trailer, 2 at back and and 2 at front on turntable?
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Reply By: Tonyfish#58 - Wednesday, Apr 21, 2010 at 21:11

Wednesday, Apr 21, 2010 at 21:11
I see no reason, as they do make them. Used to camp in one up in the Gulf.

Cheers Tony

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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Wednesday, Apr 21, 2010 at 22:36

Wednesday, Apr 21, 2010 at 22:36
Takes special skill to reverse.
2 pivots instead of one.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:19

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:19
Like this eh

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Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:34

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:34
Hey Doug,
That certainly makes it look easy LOL
GU RULES!!

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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 14:14

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 14:14
Watched a bloke reverse one of these into a driveway (at 90 degrees) off a main road in a small town in NZ once. 100 points.

I tried it in my brother in laws truck and got half way before I stopped. Needed practice and the traffic was getting a little hot under the collar. No one saw us change over and he just slipped it in and we (mainly he - not me) actually got a thumbs from one driver. I need HEAPS more practice before I ever try it again. Pass!!!!!

Phil
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Follow Up By: DIO - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 18:38

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 18:38
Amazing the effect when you run a video/film backwards. It's really video of a combination driving out of a parking space ! Sure fooled me at first view.
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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 19:04

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 19:04
DIO
Thanks for your comment. sometimes it's easy to fool a fool , but I having been in the trucking game for 30 years have seen this performed in reallity at the BP truckport at Gepps Cross, SA and other depot's, secondly that you tube does not have any flicks to suggest it has been modified and why would they, it can be done and done easy once one gets used to the rig, I have also seen drivers reverse a low loader and a dolly off a street and into a narrow gateway in Perth, now that is difficult because of the short distance between the wheels and the pivot point (turn table).
Here is the very truck I'm refering too being loaded in Mt Isa .

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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 19:10

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 19:10
DIO, If the guy was driving out instead of backing in why would he have the prime mover at right angles to the first trailer at one point.
You obviously don't know a lot about trucks.
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Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 19:15

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 19:15
If thats the case why didn't the truck just go in an even ark like when you normally drive out and if you watch the prime-mover it actually is chasing the trailers. I have seen this hundreds of times B Doubles reversing into warehouse docks in one go.
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Follow Up By: Off-track - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 23:05

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 23:05
Most will have seen a tipper and dog reversed so that the dog trailer is alongside the rigid truck, but I have seen this done with a double road train and line up alongside the loading point.
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Reply By: D200Dug- Wednesday, Apr 21, 2010 at 22:38

Wednesday, Apr 21, 2010 at 22:38
I would guess that turning circle and tyre wear would be the main factors.

A central pivot point works better than front and back and would be easier to keep aligned.

Only a guess .
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Reply By: disco driver - Wednesday, Apr 21, 2010 at 23:33

Wednesday, Apr 21, 2010 at 23:33
Hi Choc,
Have you ever seen what happens to the back trailer on a roadtrain, it's all over the road.
Same thing happens with the setup you mention, once it gets a sway up...hang on and pray. Seriously scary!!

Disco.
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Follow Up By: Dion - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 07:50

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 07:50
Swaying is over excaddurated (excuse spelling) crap.
Anything being towed can only follow what the towing vehicle is doing. ie a Semi trailer or Road Train, the rear most trailer can only follow what the steer tyres on the prime mover are doing, known as the swept path.
I regularly travel on roads frequented by Road Trains, and having driven them myself, I still haven't observed swaying.
I have observed swaying by vehicles that you only need a car licence for towing poorly loaded trailers that sway, where the towed item takes charge of the towing vehicle. The most recent example of this was seen on Highway 1 near Port Augusta recently, a Crewman ute towing a car trailer with a 1 ton ute on the back, with the V8 engine from the ute on the tray of the 1 tonner. Poorly loaded. As it approached me I could see the trailer was in charge of the crewman, not the crewman in charge of the trailer, I moved to the left of the road, right onto the fog line. After it went past me, I continued to watch in the rear view mirror and it would not have been 500 yards before there was lots of dust, both dirt and rubber and this combination was going sideways across the highway.

As to the initiating post, this type of caravan would be most stable. The swept path as being towed will be different to that than if the wheels were in the centre like a conventional caravan.
For stability, the towbar needs to be in good condition, there needs to be the correct fit of the coupling onto the towball. If a HR or any type of receiver hitch towbar is used, there can't be any sideways slop within the tubes. And there also needs to be a good fit in the 5th wheel. Also suspension components need to be in sound condition.
There would be no reason why this type of caravan set up as a 'Dog Trailer' would not be pleasurable to tow.
Over ride brakes would not be suitable, brakes would need to be actuated by the towing vehicle to work uniformaly on all wheels.

I've been thinking of building a dog trailer too for the increased capacity to load with firewood. Until then, I'll just have to make do with towing one trailer behind the other, which incidently do not have any sway, I've tried deliberately to cause sway, but as soon as my steering is straight, the two (sometimes) three trailers are following as straight as what my ute is travelling.

Cheers,
Dion.
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Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 17:26

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 17:26
Dion - You are not correct in what you say - obviously you have never followed a triple road trains on WA gravel Outback Roads - The sway that those trailers can get up has to be seen to believed. It also takes some good timing to set up to overtake them. I have also witnessed it on many a double road train, the last trailer definitely gets a sway up, especially on windy days.
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Follow Up By: Dion - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 22:36

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 22:36
Mmmmm, mussssttttt bbeeee diffffferenntttt gravel.

Cheers,
Dion.
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Reply By: CLC50 (QLD ) - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 06:10

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 06:10
Hi
I had a trailer with a front turntable, with 4 mini car wheels,it was built by a engineer in SA I believe,I purchased it from a person who moved to the Sunshine coast Queensland,It was easy to load & tow great ,it measured 2500 Long 1600 wide ,I had trouble to get it reg as they did not know if I should have brakes fitted,after some trouble I got it reg with out brakes,
I will took for some old pictures if I still have any.It is a art to back but practice makes perfect ,I still need Practice LOL
AnswerID: 413859

Reply By: carlsp - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 08:13

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 08:13
You did not say where you lived. ie which state.

I think getting it registered would be the main drama. The motor registery would not know how to apply the regulations. If you are in WA, I would imagine very little chance. Certainly check with them first.
AnswerID: 413867

Reply By: Ray - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 09:14

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 09:14
We used to have trailers in that configuration when I was doing nashoes. They were used as command posts and wireless stations. They had full size off road wheels but had to be towed with a truck.
I have also seen that type of caravan being used by gypsies and fairground operators. I would imagine that they were originally horse drawn but converted later in their life. They were also towed by a truck.
Why shouldn't the W.A. licensing authority license these vehicles? Dog trailers are?
AnswerID: 413881

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 10:14

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 10:14
We had a few for the trainee drivers to practice with. They were reasonably easy to reverse because we had extra long drawbars put on ours. (helped to be RAEME).

Terrain and road performance is reduced a lot with them unless designed for off road. Usually only the Army type of budget.

Everyone had to reverse 100 yards before they passed. And with an old mark 1 or mark 3. Laugh. But they got it in the end.

I would prefer not to use a dog trailer.

Phil
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Reply By: Fab72 - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:55

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:55
The Leyland Brothers used that type of trailer when they crossed Oz from West to East.
AnswerID: 413895

Reply By: Member - Michael P (QLD) - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 13:47

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 13:47
Try telling any truck driver that a Ridgid & Dog trailer is hard to reverse.
AnswerID: 413905

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 14:07

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 14:07
100 points. But it also helps to have a long drawbar.
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Reply By: gbc - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 15:46

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 15:46
Plenty of moblie gensets around in the dog configuration also.
AnswerID: 413915

Reply By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 18:52

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 18:52
No reason at all why that configuration wouldn't work from a towing point of view. The only factors against them would be reversing and stability. A reasonably competent trucky would have no dramas with the reversing but a lot of "average people" have trouble reversing a 6'x4' garden trailer. The possible stability issue would only come into play if a very sharp corner was taken at too higher speed.
the sharper you turn the more the front wheels tend to align fore and aft rather than side to side. In this situation the rear wheels are getting no help from the front from a stability point of view. This should only be of concern with a fairly long trailer.

Cheers Pop
AnswerID: 413933

Reply By: Dave B ( BHQ NSW) - Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 20:09

Thursday, Apr 22, 2010 at 20:09
I am no engineer either, but I think one of the problems would be the torsional twisting as you go through various dips and drains as you are turning.
With centrally mounted axles they take all the flexing in a short area of the chassis, but with axles mounted at each end, I would imagine there would be quite a bit of flex in the chassis.
That part may not be a problem, but what about the frame of the van, how much flexing would that take before various joins start to crack.
The only 4 wheel dog trailer type caravans that I have seen are pretty heavy duty stuff that probably needs a truck to tow it because of the weight.
Just a good turntable would be a fair bit of weight alone.

Dave
'Wouldn't be dead for quids'

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