Diesel Oil Changes at 5000kms

Submitted: Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 21:54
ThreadID: 7826 Views:10782 Replies:15 FollowUps:11
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Correct me if i am wrong but most people say to change the oil every 5000kms and the filters every 10,000kms.... I did an oil change last week and when i took the filters off i tried to measure the amount of oil which came out (2 filters on a 4.2litre)..
I think it was about 1.3litres of oil which came from the filters........ So what i am saying is that why would people want to put that amount of dirty oil straight into a fresh oil change when a new filter cost about $11 ?......
I will be changing filters and oil every 5000kms....
I also sifted the oil to see what sort of gunk is in diesel oil after 5000kms and there is plenty a black forming crap in there at the bottom...
I just used castrol gtx diesel oil $26 for 5 litres...
Whats some thoughts about what i said here??_____________________________________________

_____________________________________________
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Reply By: Voxson (Adelaide) - Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 21:57

Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 21:57
PS... I wouldnt top up my oil with a litre of old sump oil from my last oil change so why would the filters stay?????_____________________________________________

_____________________________________________
AnswerID: 33812

Reply By: Phil G - Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 22:02

Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 22:02
Voxson,

I just follow manufacturers recommendations. My TD Prado has a sump capacity of 7 litres and about 2/3 litre in the filter. Filters cost $30-40 genuine. So I do 5k oil and 10k filter changes, as recommended.

I'm usingbleeps CF-4 15W40 oil from Adelaide Truck and 4wd Spares on Regency Rd - bought a case of 4x5litres for $57 last time.

Phil
AnswerID: 33815

Follow Up By: Phil G - Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 13:45

Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 13:45
Gotta love this site! Its censored out the brand of oil, which I admit sounds bad, but is pronounced fooks!
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FollowupID: 24350

Reply By: mcgra - Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 22:13

Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 22:13
i guess they are saying if u have two filters its every 10,000ks
i have a single filter and change the oil and filter every 5,000.

and the amount of oil isnt the issue thats left in yr filters its the condition of the filters.
if its a new secondhand car i would change the oil and the filters every 5,000 if it had a doble filter then after 15000 i would go back to the manufactures recs.

gra
AnswerID: 33818

Reply By: Kev - (Cairns,QLD) - Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 22:25

Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 22:25
My 4.2L holds 10 litres of oil & the filter probebly holds around 1/2 L, not alot to worry about.
I still like to change the filter each oil change anyway.

$26 for 5 litres.
$57 for 5 litres.

You guys have too much cash, why not go the 20L drum of Delo 400 for $70-80.

Seems fairly popular at the moment.
AnswerID: 33822

Follow Up By: Phil G - Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 22:38

Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 22:38
Kev,

$57 was for 4 drums of 5 litres!!!

Cheers
Phil
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FollowupID: 24304

Follow Up By: Kev - (Cairns,QLD) - Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 22:52

Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 22:52
Kev puting glasses on !!!
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FollowupID: 24308

Reply By: Member - Ross - Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 22:39

Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 22:39
With the Defender the've stretched it out to 20K for both due to a centrifugal filter as used on heavy machinery but I have to admit I'm a tad nervous at the thought....seems a bleep load of kays for an oil burner.

I feel more comfortable changing the oil and filters more often, but if that's what the men say and who are we to question their wisdom???Rosco
AnswerID: 33825

Follow Up By: TonyY - Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 07:38

Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 07:38
Ross,

when I bought mine I was advised to have it serviced at 10k intervals, reason being that they expect the Defender to have a harder life than a Discovery. I'm happy with 10k oil changes, the centrifugal filter really is effective.
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FollowupID: 24323

Follow Up By: Member -BJ (Sydney) - Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 17:29

Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 17:29
New Iveco trucks(Fiat) are 80,000 oil changes. I would'nt go that farRegards Bob
Where to next
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FollowupID: 24390

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 22:45

Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 22:45
I go 5-8000 klms on oil and filters, as you say the filters are cheap as bleep , so why not.

Oil, I use either Shell Rimula X in a 20 ltr drum, go 1/2s with a mate of mine, we get 1 chance each out of it.. Works out real cheap!

Its the price you put on your engine... oil and filters are cheap, $5-9,k for a rebuild isnt. You dont want it to die like a 3.0 GU in the middle of nowhere.
AnswerID: 33827

Reply By: Member - Ken - Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 23:20

Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 23:20
Voxson and all others including T'ster

Everyone I have spoken to in the Diesel trade including service centres (genuine & after market) and diesel parts suppliers to the re-con trade and people who run Diesel 4WD's in their businesses, all say do both at 5000 and you will not have a problem.

As Truckster says Filters and oil are cheap compared to a rebuild.

Somewhere else in this forum I answered a query on 'windup' by stating what I was shown on a 4WD course re same.

I know Truckster, what the hell does this have to do with oil and filters, well I am getting to it.

This particular 4WD course was part of an overall 2 week thing my employer put us through before I went O/seas.

Now, our transport for that 2 week course was nothing but bare arse '75' troopys which were hired and which we gave a right old flogging.

The guy who owns and supplied them was there as part of the whole thing.

Because I have a troopy I bent his ear regularly on all sorts of things Troopy-wise including servicing.

He told me that his fleet is serviced ea 5000km, both oil and filter plus all fuel filters.

He further he told me he had never experienced any problems in this particular area by doing so and that his vehicles were flogged relentlessly on hire.

Now this is the best part. He further told me that he uses genuine Oil Filters (Toyota) because Toyota have a different valving system in theirs.

He said everone will tell you that a Ryco or whatever is just the same , however try both and you will see that the oil guage sits different at idle when 'warmed up'

The Genuine one is a lot more expensive, then so is a rebuild.

By the way have any of you people heard of an oil called BIMROSE and if so what is their product like.

Regards

Ken Robinson
AnswerID: 33836

Reply By: Paul - Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 23:50

Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 23:50
Hi,
It says in the manual to do the 5 & 10 change, I'm not into throwing money away on filters if its not going to make any difference. However, I do unscrew the filter and empty out the used oil at the 5 thou change before refilling the sump.
Paul
AnswerID: 33838

Reply By: Member - Eric- Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 23:54

Tuesday, Oct 14, 2003 at 23:54
Voxson

I always change my filter at every oil change , the fact that your oil is dirty , means that its working , all oils have a deturgent in them. When I purchase a second hand car for myself , I go to the extream and remove the rocker cover and sump . and make sure it free from deposits that may build up due to bad or no servicing , wrong oils ect . It will suprise you sometimes what you can find . Also in petrol engines , I use a proper engine flush , I am not sure if there is one for diesel engines . Dont purchase engine flush in a small bottle, I find them a wast of money . For petrol engines , I use 6 litres of honda engine flush , I am sure there would be a product for diesels motors somewereVenus Bay
AnswerID: 33839

Reply By: stevesub - Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 08:29

Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 08:29
Change our 78 Series Troopy oil and filters every 10,000km. Toyota say that the 78 series had 11 litres of oil so 10,000km is OK. However the older 75 series has less oil and 5,000km is recommended according to Toyota.

Our Troopy has done 175,000km now and the engine is absoluty perfect in every respect incl not using a drop of oil between changes.

The Freelander (petrol) had 20,000km changes from new (Landrover recommendations) and is now suffering from sticky valve lifters at 55,000km. Now that will also be on 10,000km changes
AnswerID: 33846

Reply By: Tuco69 - Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 10:09

Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 10:09
The only way to establish your safe oil and filter change interval is with an oil sample analysis. Just about any of the major oil companies like Mobil, BP, Shell can supply you a kit and instruction on how to use it. Other large vehicle manufacturers like Caterpillar also offer the service.

There are so many variables that will influence the quality of the oil, that it isn't possible to generalise just what is the safe interval for any particular engine. Just a few that will influence the total outcome are:
Type of oil used.
Type of filter used.
Engine condition.
Operating conditions - dusty outback roads or city bitumen.
Air filter condition and change interval.
Stop/start city or highway running.
Long periods idling.
Ambient temperatures.
Towing.
..... and the list goes on ...

Switching to full synthetic (Mobil1 - 5W50) and the following up with several oil analysis over a period of time, now has me increasing my change of oil and filter to 15,000 K in my 1KZTE powered Toyota Surf. The lube analysis report usually will offer recomendations on if you could increase or need to decrease the service interval. With mineral oil I was changing oil and filter at 5,000 K as per Toyota service book recomendation.

However this interval is only for my vehicle and personal running conditions, with very little dusty roads, regular air filter changes (OEM filter element) and driving style. Others with the same engine/vehicle/oil may experience different analysis results - because of the other variables.

Tuco in Cairns
AnswerID: 33852

Follow Up By: Goodsy - Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 17:38

Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 17:38
Have done the same with my hilux 1KZ-TE. Oil analysis at 5000km and 10000kms. Am using synthetic and changing oil and filter at 10000km. After 10000km oil analysis oil was still fine for use but I changed it anyway. Am doing another oil analysis for next change. Then I'm happy to go against Mr Toyota.
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FollowupID: 24392

Reply By: Member - Karl - Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 11:11

Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 11:11
My 10c worth. For my 91 Series 80 with approx 205 000 kms on the clock and an aftermarket DTS Turbo fitted I change my oil and filter together everytime and I do it aound the 10 000 km mark. This was reccommneded to me by a number of mechanics in the various areas where I have lived over the years and also by the Mechs in the Army when I was in an Unit that required us to maintain our 110 Rovers.

The latest 4 x 4 Australia Mag has an interesting story on this matter where the author is looking at 15 000 km before an oil change depending on the analysis of his oil. Ultimately at the end of the day it's your choice. Just make sure that you use quality products and brands.Everyone is entitled to have an opinion - just make sure that yours is correct.
AnswerID: 33857

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 17:40

Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 17:40
Some people are saying "IN EUROPE"... shiat like that, they are running 30,000 before oil changes.. Thats a wank.

Its totally up to the individual as you state!

Personally I think 15,000 is too much, DEPENDING on the use of the car. Stop start city driving I would change more often... Im happy with 5-8000klms.
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FollowupID: 24393

Follow Up By: Tuco69 - Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 18:00

Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 18:00
Truckster - yes that is correct. A friend has a Benz Sprinter - turbo diesel, and after 20,000 K the oil is still CLEAN! So a 30,000 k service interval it isn't a 'wank' - believe me.
Bit different to my Toyota which shows a sooty dipstick 10 minutes after an oil change!

Tuco in Cairns
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FollowupID: 24395

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 22:22

Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 22:22
Because its 'clean' doesnt mean its still has good properties...

As I said, theres no way I'd let any car go 15,000 without an oil change, I cant afford a rebuild, so oil and filters are cheap insurance.
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FollowupID: 24446

Follow Up By: Tuco69 - Thursday, Oct 16, 2003 at 09:44

Thursday, Oct 16, 2003 at 09:44
"Because its 'clean' doesnt mean its still has good properties..."

My point in my first post exactly! An oil sample analysis will show the levels of contamination in comparison with a new oil sample.

All large operators in trucking, mining, aviation, marine use this method to establish service intervals.

Tuco in Cairns
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FollowupID: 24474

Follow Up By: Patrol22 (Queanbeyan - Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 13:23

Friday, Oct 17, 2003 at 13:23
European diesels do run much longer between oil changes. This, however, only holds true if the vehicle is operated in Europe as their diesel is much cleaner than ours (something like 5ppm Vs 500ppm of shiate). We will get there one day as the sulphur and other particulates are refined out of our diesel.
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FollowupID: 24580

Reply By: howesy - Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 20:37

Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 20:37
Shop around dude. Delo 500 for $55 a 20ltr drum. Sure beats what your paying. It will range to in the 70's mark depending on which robber you go to. my price is at a caltex depot in wetherill park nsw
AnswerID: 33945

Reply By: JohnR - Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 22:54

Wednesday, Oct 15, 2003 at 22:54
Can't disagree with the regular like 5-6000 km service.

I have been told that Japanese diesels generate more of the carbon in them than some others(perhaps European), but am not qualified to compare that. I have had a rebuild in a Hilux from too long an interval. Lets face it they are 2/3rd Cruiser engines. It had sludge build up that reduced the capability to lift oil through the pumps.

Vehicle in every day use and not sufficient attention by staff was the prescription. Any gunk is a danger to the engine if it accumulates and impedes oil flow, so keep an eye on it and yes test the oil, but the oil change frequency is your risk management. Like insurance is or you carry it yourself if you don't. Cross Australia and further from servicing means higher risk, too if you fail your truck, for it will fail you
AnswerID: 33974

Reply By: Sam - Thursday, Oct 16, 2003 at 07:45

Thursday, Oct 16, 2003 at 07:45
I read some where that the filter is actually more effective after a number of kilometres. Aparently when a filter is new it has a wide range of micron voids. When the filter gets older the effective micron of the filter reduces. This is the reason why manufacturers only recommend filter changes every 10,000kms an oil @ 5,000.

My work HZJ75 4.2D only gets serviced every 10,000kms and still uses no oil between services with 200,000km on the clock.
AnswerID: 33985

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