Switching house power to generator

Technically, AFAIK, the genny does not have to be earthed.... unless they have made made appropriate additions to AS3000 (in the past decade or so?), but AS3000 caters for mains connected loads - it didn't cater for power sources.

However, I'd probably inject the power through an RCD (earth leak switch or safety switch (sics) and then earthing does not matter from a safety POV - it is merely used to clear faults (blow fuses) and limit EMI.

Quote "If you have an outside power outlet, just plug your genny into that"

Pardon my ignorance but what do you mean by that. What is your definition of an outside power outlet?

Cheers

Patrick

KC you can't be serious can you??? that would mean having a lead with 2 male plugs on it, highly dangerous and illegal. If in fact it was a sparkie who suggested it to you I would have any other work done by him checked by a registered competant sparkie not the hack that told you to do something as dangerous as that.

I install them on a regular basis where I live & work and I only charge $250.00 for a standard install in a meter box that has spare din-rail to mount circuit breaker and change over switch.

Shane

PS what ever you do don't follow this absurd advice

"Turn off your switches and plug the genny into an outside power point" !!!!!!!!!!!

It honestly amazes me that there are not more people electrocuted !!!!!!!!!!!

I know it's WRONG x 1,000,000.....but that is exactly what we used to do when I worked in PNG many years ago. We had HEAPS of power outages and it was common practice to drag out the extension cord with 2 male plugs and hook the gennie up to a power point with the mains turned off (so we weren't trying to power-up the whole bloody town).

As I said, it was wrong by all means; but it kept us "happy".

I do not condone nor recommend this in any way.

I worked in PNG in the days before bicycle helmets, seat belts, twopenny bungers were freely sold to any kid who could afford them etc etc.... people weren't quite so "precious" about safety in those days and (dare i say), they were endowed with a bit more common sense than people of today.

It's a bit like the arguement about germs (in my opinion)..... if you molly-coddle a kid to stop them getting nasty germs on their precious little pinkies, chances are they will not build up an immunity to germs. Likewise, you over-govern what people can and can't do in their own lives and pretty soon they have no level of common sense as to what they can "get away with".

hahahahaha....I love the good ol' days.

well said roachie

Definitely not recommended for the unknowledgeable and unqualified... but "we" used to do similar in a foreign country that used 2 round pins (same as out old kettles) - but we didn't have to manufacture any illegal male-male extension - we merely stuck 2 nails in the female end of a legal extension cord. (LOL)

But being in the country, we had 3-phase power and it was not uncommon to lose a phase, so it was used to power the dead phase from the working phases.
And it was VERY IMPORTANT to pull the dead-phases supply fuses - inter-phase shorts are worse than single-phase shorts! (And were very likely to take out BOTH phases when power returned.)

As I just wrote above, I'd also recommend using and RCD between the generator and the load (house etc). (RCD aka Safety Switch etc.)

Camec have external input connectors that mount on an outside wall to allow the connection of a 240v supply plug. Barnray

Hi, I just wanted to add a note of caution on the use of RCDs and portable generators - please dont assume that they are functional - portable generators and RCDs are a whole science in themselves.

yeah true, they can have a mind of their own,dont use those crappy little plug in ones use the larger orange standalone units(portable) as made by clipsal or similar.

"use the larger orange standalone units(portable) as made by clipsal or similar"

Just what are these units called? I have had a look at the Clipsal site using 'external input connectors' without success.

Patrick

Ooooops....rereading the post it looks like they are called RCD. You can tell that I am not electrically minded.

Patrick

also most quality generators have an earthing point,you can buy or make an electrode to put in the ground and "earth" the genset but i have found this can go either way, it can improve the sensitivity and operation of the RCD or make it trip on anything plugged in to it. Go Figure??

As in my earlier post I install the change over switches and input sockets on a regular basis living just north of Gympie as we get frequent outages. Having an earth on the generator is of no real importance as the house earth is used and the RCD/s (safety switch/es) operate as they should. The only time there are problems is when the generator has an RCD fitted, this will trip when the genie is connected to the input socket because of the MEN (multiple earthed neutral) at the house switch board. The first time I had this problem was when a customers genie died and they hired one that was fitted out for construction sites with an RCD, This client had a very small solar system and needed the genie to charge his batteries.
There are a lot of houses around where I live that are on pure solar (batteries & Inverters) that are "under panelled" and rely on a generator to top up batteries during the day, some systems I have seen are only 750watt inverters with very small amphour reserve of batteries, I have done the 240v side of a few "proper" installs (5-7 Kw) that still have the input socket to top the batteries when required, same change over switch and input socket I install for those on mains.
As for overloading genie - I advise customers to NOT try and use high load devices such as laser printers, Hot water services, airconditioners cookers etc as most only use a 2.0 kva genie, I have got the input socket where I am renting and have worked out what I can and can't run off the genie and turn off those things when I put the genie on, we rely on tank water where I live (whole area) and to even go to the toot requires power for the water pump, thus they really are a necessary part to life up here.

Shane
I hope this has provided a bit more clarity for some of you

Interesting that Paul and Melissa (FU5 above) reckon RCDs are more sensitive with earth (stakes).
RCD operation should not require earth - they operate if there is an imbalance between its two "lines" (aka active & neutral).

Inverter installations had this issue - leave it as a floating system whereby you could touch EITHER AC line and not be electrocuted (but touch both and you would be!), or "create a hazard" by tying one side to earth (the M.E.N. system) thereby touching Neutral was non-hazardous, but Active was.
However RCDs solved that issue. (Why people wanted to earth them for safety before that was beyond my comprehension; post-RCD it's a no-brainer situation.)

An inverter is no different to a generator.

I forgot the reliability issue....

RCDs have been around for ages but it wasn't until the 1990s that they became stable enough for domestic use.
They would often trip due to surges, electrical noise (eg PC power supplies) etc.
But they overcame most of those problems.

That's not to say they will not falsely trip on generators. As mentioned above - there are many factors - frequency variations and transient responses that are not present in mains supplies.

But I suggest using an RCD and if it does falsely trip, get a better RCD. Or omit it.
When RCDs were first legislated, lighting and refridgerator/freezer circuits were exempt in acknowledgment of false tripping potential. (I think ovens & stoves are still exempt?)

Ha - and you thought I was gonna talk about why SAA did not want them called "Safety Switches".