$500 Fine because Safety Certificate Expired while trying to sell Rav

Get real. The car never moved and whilst after reading the blog I dont agree or disagree.
Surely if the car hasnt moved it will be as good as the day it was issued.

Unless of course its a while and it rusts away in the meantime.

I do agree in a point of law it is invalid.


The Police should have better things to do especially in Caboolture which is not noted for its excellence.

Dont bother jumping on me I have lived nearby and worked there.

To the original OP perhaps when you blank out your name on the letter you received you should read the next line and also use a spell checker when writing official letters.

The Police should use some discretion with this however.


Be careful you havent got an expired registration sticker on the screen as thats worth another $200.

On relooking at your link you are very lucky you didnt get a visit from the Council as in the Caboolture area it is illegal in the eyes of the Council to park on the grass verge outside your house.

I had my van parked on the verge outside my house and a neighbour complained that they couldnt walk along there because of it. The official came and I said "Stand there and watch".

I then drove my Commodore between the van and the front of my property.

End of fight I thought

However then the drainage guys rocked up and marked where the drains were to see if they could get me for parking over that.

As that was a only few days before we left forever I didnt hear any more.

So save up you might need it.

Graham , just for a laugh read your council bylaws , your land stops at the fence line , park in the driveway outside the fence line and you are breaking the law and can be booked , you could scream blue murder that you layed and payed for the driveway from the kerb into your land and take it to court and you will still lose, you prepared to pay for example the vision impared person who walks into your car parked on the verge or across the footpath and injures themselves ????/

Exactly what I said isnt it or are you having trouble reading it.

I am perfectly aware where my land stops and had a concrete edging along it

As the verge outside my house was about 5.5m wide there was plenty of room to get past the van to the extent the council employee agreed to let me leave it there for the remaining short time, as I had sold the house and we were packing it to go away.


Actually I would have laid it and usually paid, maybe payed?? Collins dictionary.

"There are items on a car that deteriorate from under use, and some of these items could make the vehicle dangerous."

Please tell me what items these are so I am certain that I am driving a safe vehicle in between the 6 month regular servicing as set out by the vehicle manufacturer.

Trevor.

Hi Trevor.
To be honest, I couldn't be stuffed reading the blog, so have missed any part about the vehicle being used between the safety certificate being issued, and the expiry of the certificate.
I was basing my comments on personal use of receiving a safety certificate, and not driving waiting for the vehicle to sell.
I currently have a Saab that has been sitting in the carport since before Christmas, and I wouldn't be offering it for test drives without a new safety inspection.
In a previous occasion, I have had brakes prove inoperative after minimal use due to moisture ingress to the brake linings.
Depending on the sun exposure, tyres have deteriorated with sidewall crazing.
Hydraulic seals have died out causing oil leaks.
Without straining too many grey cells, there's three items that can result in possible dangerous results, and I assume there are more.
If I had enough time, and the will to read the blog, I may have not commented, and if so, please forgive my humble ramblings, but either way, I still have no sympathy for anyone under these circumstances.

brushmarx you are entitled to your opinion and I was just making sure that my wifes car which is only driven 5000km per year was not going to deteriorate so bad while it was sitting idle as to be a safety issue for her and my kids.

Seems most of the items that deteriorate (in your list anyway) take years of a vehicle sitting idle to make it such as to be unsafe (which is what a safety cert is preventing "unsafe" cars being sold registered). With this in mind why would a "deemed safe vehicle" as per safety certificate issued "x" number of days ago (Insert how long a safety cert is valid for where "x" is) all of a sudden be unsafe? definately not through something that has deteriorated in that time.

Pretty rough law if you ask me.

Cheers, Trevor.

SO. . . .Bushmarx,
My landcruiser that hasn't been inspected (apart from regular 10000k service, last being November "09) since I bought it in "06 is unsafe because I don't have a valid safety certificate???
I'm NOT selling of course, but how does it affect the road-worthiness of a vehicle??


Maxpeg vehicle WAS inspected and, by all accounts appeared hardly driven since inspection making it arguably safer than most cars on the road, BUT, because it's for sale suddenly it's a potential death trap!!!

I think that THIS law stinks, you can do 51KPH past a school at 8.55 in the morning and only get a fine half that.

Shane

Trevor and Shane
Your points are noted, and your protective instincts are commendable.
But, whether you like the law or not, doesn't matter to me or the relevant authorities who approve the law.
If you purchased a vehicle with an outdated safety certificate and had trouble transferring the rego, you may have a different view.
If the law is set in place with a certain time frame, how much flexibility would you like to be able to break the law by?
If you have 12 months rego, should you be able to drive for 2 weeks more? 4 weeks more?
If you car insurance ran out after 12 months, how much longer would you still expect to receive insurance coverage?
My point is that things can go wrong with a vehicle in the three months after an inspection let alone any extended time you feel may be warranted.
If you were booked for 3kph over the limit, if your window was down "x" cm, or whatever, I would suggest that a better option than expressing your outrage on a blog, would be to talk to your States motoring group, local politicians, maybe even raise a petition.
If you get a fine you consider wrong, don't pay the fine, and stand up in court to explain your point. We see serious offenders receiving virtually no penalties because the State Government can't afford to jail them. A half decent magistrate would probably throw this case out. But then again he may consider the law was followed and the fine stands. That's a choice worth looking at.
I don't feel that open forums linked to a blog, and criticising the police as revenue raisers is the perfect option. The cops have a hard enough time with our weak legal system now.
How do we know the cop wasn't on his way back from telling a family their child has just been killed, or getting spat on by some drunken tart. We all have bad days and overreact. Sometimes the luck is with you, and you get a warning, other days, you meet someone with a grudge, and you go straight to a fine.
I don't know all the circumstances, and frankly don't care.
I've just had a gutfull of people who think the authorities are having a great time doing their job.
If you don't like the rules, go and change them., legally.
If you drive a car that is expected to be roadworthy, and kill yourself, that's fine with me.
That's the great thing about Australia, we have the right to whinge.

Bushmarx,
You are right in saying that there is a clear time limit imposed on the safety certificate and that was breached, pay the penalty, but $500?????, hardly befits the crime.
The rest of what you said is crap, I wish I had time to put it more politely, but I don't.
Trevor and I asked (in a round about sort of way) how was the vehicle dangerous after 2 months from being inspected??


Oh, it IS great to in Australia, where you can whinge freely form the highest. . . . . . . .forum, YOU can also RANT about people who whinging, think about it.



Shane

ps. maxpeg DID approach local pollies and didn't get anywhere, take the time and read the blog, you will only need 5 mins
Have a good night

Shane
I thought about not responding, and then thought why the hell not.
I spent 12 years in the Army, and that involved many "holidays" over differing times from a couple of months to eight months.
At one time, I had a car that was fine before leaving, but immediately on returning, the disc brakes had built up some sort of sludgy coating, and the brakes needed cleaning. Within a week of returning, the front diff seal started leaking, and the mechanic claimed it had dried out when not being used.
A friend also had an old Holden, in which the brake drums rusted after 4 months of non use.
These are facts.
I had, and still, have no intention of reading the blog.
I commented that there are better ways of handling the fine rather than a blog, and maintain that view.
I don't recall saying the fine was fair.
All I said was that I had no sympathy with the results of breaking the law.
I did not say a vehicle WAS dangerous after the time a safety certificate ending.
I said there were items that COULD deteriorate and cause potential danger.
I don't appreciate being called a liar, so unless you have some evidence proving what I said was "crap" you can wear Blue on Wednesday night to prove you inability to be civil.
As for the whinging part, I was being ironic when I said it, obviously that went right over your head. I don't need to think about it twice, it was already covered.
Perhaps you and Trevor can once again ask (in a round about sort of way) for some evidence that what I said were lies, and if that is both forthcoming and accurate, I may or may not apologise.
And thanks, I did have a good night.
Ian

Ian,

I will just say if a vehicle "could" deteriorate and become dangerous it is definately not seen as an issue to vehicle manufacturers who in this case Toyota (Rav4) set out 6 month 10,000km servicing. If it "could" be a problem, do you really think a manufacturer like Toyota would leave the gate open for serious liability expliotation by not specifying a shorter service interval? (for which they would in a lot of cases reap greater financial rewards through service departments all over the country)

Can't tell me that in any way was this Rav4 could (have a look at it in the blog it is VGC at a minimum, more like mint cond) possibly be a vehicle that has deteriorated to an unsafe condition since the safety cert was issued less than 2 months previous. If it was an old bomb with cobwebs and remanants of 1965 still lying around inside the cabin then your opinion may hold a thread of logicallity but the vehicle is like new. My wife's GU is 10 y/o and 385,000km and any day of the week I would jump in it and do a Simpson crossing or a Cape trip with the confidence of it bringing me home. If you where honest I am sure you would agree that deterioration of a vehicle does not happen over a matter of weeks in a newish vehicle.

I have been on the receiving end of a few common sense law enforcement officers but have also shoved it fair up another completely over the top officer (through the proper lawful channels of course). Like all corners of society, there is sensible and not so sensible persons in law enforcement, the officer in this situation has shown no common sense and tarnishes the rest of the officers in his/her region (A region that does not need to fuel disrespect toward police officers).

Cheers, Trevor.

Brushmarx,
Firstly, it wasn't my intention to portray you as a liar, what I referred to as crap, was all the filler you put into your argument.
You have stated that you will not even read the blog relating to this thread, so every comment you have made is based on . . . . . what?

You have also relayed about your personnel experience on leaving vehicles for extended periods of time, returning to find serious fault thru lack of use, No-one is doubting that, but that was NOT the case here, the vehicle did get some use, If you bothered to read the blog, AND my last response you would've realised that the thread poster had already pursued this matter thru other avenues and got nowhere.

I already wear blue, 6 days a week, its part of my work uniform, or did you mean something else? so I cannot be civil by your reasoning??.

I'm not seeking apologies from you (what for?), nor is Trevor I would imagine, but we would like to understand why comments like "There are items on a car that deteriorate from under use, and some of these items could make the vehicle dangerous." are back up with "I spent 12 years in the Army"



I'm just trying to keep it in perspective,

Shane

Shane
My original comment thanked the writer for the information advising others to the fine.
My further comments were related to the simple fact that there was a time limit on a Safety Certificate, and that had been exceeded., so whether the fine is too large (which I personally think it is) or not, it's purely voluntary.
I've had enough of of our Police force being accused of being revenue raisers, just because the law was upheld. The cops have enough hard time dealing with the pathetic sentences passed down from gutless magistrates under instructions from even more pathetic politicians, without a blog putting them down.
A two month allowance is a blanket time frame built into the Safety Certificate. It doesn't gave a tick box to extend the time if the vehicle is a Toyota, regularly serviced, looks good, is blue, or the owner is a nice guy. It is a simple time frame that allows an owner to sell the car and maintain the registration. Just because the vehicle hasn't sold, does not mean the time can be extended indefinitaly. How much longer do you think an owner should be able to exceed the time just because the car hasn't sold?
The mention of wearing blue related to the State of Origin match, in what was probably a poor sense of humour hinting that a Queenslander wouldn't accuse me of lying from what I wrote.
The Army had nothing to do with anything, except that was the reason for my time away allowing vehicular items to deteriorate, but now I am aware that you have said that doesn't happen, I can safely go about my life knowing that a seal that has lasted 5 years (for example) won't dry out for at least ten weeks if I have a Safety Certificate done.
I am so over this whole subject.
I hope the original poster sells his car.
I hope he follows a legal course to have the law changed or the fine reduced. It appears he has had no luck with the local politician, but that is only one method of attack, and I still feel a blog is not the best response.
I hope your seals never dry out, and your brakes never cause problems through lack of use.
I hope you never buy a vehicle that has had boot polish used to fill sidewall cracking.
I hope they find a cure for cancer.
I hope for a lot of things, but one of them is not to go through this type of drama again for responding to a thread on a public forum and receiving a veritable public flogging because I had (and still have) no sympathy for what happened.
Cheers
Ian

Hi Ian,
The biggest problem with communicating in text, is it's difficult to gauge tone in was is being said, clearly, you feel that you where attacked for your opinion on this thread, this is NOT the case, I didn't set out to, as you put it "give you a public flogging", That's not what I'm about


This is, as you well know, a public forum, everything that you, or I, or Trevor or Tom, Dick, Harry puts into print will be scrutinised and some will even question what they read.
I, as well as Trevor, was simply questioning your initial response about how quickly a vehicle can become unsafe after an inspection, nothing more, all the to-ing and fro-ing after that led away from the subject, How did state of origin get in there??

I agree wholeheartly that law enforcement agencies often get a raw deal from both the public and the judicial system, no argument from me here, a motorist feeling hard done buy, angry about being booked and setting up a blog? hardly unique, a good course of action? probably not.

One thing is for sure, we both know not to let safety certificates expire, or we will get a big fine.

Shane.

Ian,

Don't take to heart the fact we have a difference of opinion. You are completely entitled to your view as much as I am mine. I would love to be of the same view as plenty of other respondants on this topic, obvious fact is I am not.

Please feel encouraged to continue voicing your opinions as I am confident there will be something we agree on.

My appologies if I have offended you with what I have said, that is not my intention.

Regards,
Trevor.

No sweat.
Jousting gloves are off.
Maybe we can agree on looking forward to a Qld win on Wednesday.
Cheers

"Maybe we can agree on looking forward to a Qld win on Wednesday"

Now that is something I will agree on!! ;-))

Trevor.

I guess thats why the system has become so much of a joke.

When there were only 10 commandments you could reasonably remember them , but I heard that combined the legal laws now are over 17 thousand pages.

A warning first response like Tour boy relates in post 7 is more appropriate in a civilized society for minor things.

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
Your not Dio under a new name are you?

Here! here!

As you said..."that is the common sense approach"

There are more imperfect people like us out there Rockape, most of which would be at work now. Given time for some of these people to get home I am sure Curt will have his share of empathetic replies (or at least he should).

Regards,
Trevor.

Nit picking on behalf of the system ?? What part ?? So Y have a safety cert / roadwothy at all ?? Perhaps we should ALL just NOT pay rego /fines /insurance / why be licenced to drive ?? The time frames for all renewals are set , don't want to comply , Don't whinge when you get fined.

"What part ?? "

The part that says if you are a dealer your safetey certificate lasts twice as long as if you are Joe Blow without a dealers liscence. As if somehow the vehicle in the dealers yard will be "safer" for twice the period compared to the same vehicle if it were owned by a private individual. Please, give me a break....there is no difference between an individual and a dealer when it comes to the length of time a safety certificate should be valid for.

PS: I didn't whinge when I got a fine, I have copped it sweet plenty of times when I have been guilty.

Hope this answers your question as to why I have my opinion.
Regards, Trevor.

I know this will cause some humour, but people in Australia are equal under the law.

I couldn't read past this crock of ---- statement.
Do you honestly think the law is applied to everyone.
If it were the whole continent would have to be turned into a prison.
You may have some puristic thought that we are all equal under the law.
But the law is only applied to a minority of the people.

Sorry to add to this but your wrong.

"As cops are not judge and jury, the police do not have the power to alter the penalty."

To a Police council worker they ARE judge and jury in the fine area. When a fine is issued you have been tried and judged. that's why you got the fine.

You must not know any Police council workers, In QLD they are given a quota to meet in relation to fines. It has been in papers and on TV. They respond quicker to a call out if money is involved.


@Curt
Sorry you got busted.

Wilko,

It is the Sellers responsibility in QLD to have a current safety certificate when selling a motor vehicle. It probably has something to do with QLD not requiring to have a yearly vehicle inspection ;)


Cheers Kev

Further to what Kev said if it is registered it must display a current safety cert. Otherwise it has to be advertised as an "as Is" sale and registration cancelled and plates removed and returned to the dept of transport when sold. That's the law. If yearly inspections were to be introduced then they would probably remove this law and it would be the same as in NSW for example.

Cheers
Dave

As Mark Webber said. You need to read an instruction book,before you walk out the door in this country nowadays.

Pinko!! Thats correct, some years ago, NSW had the same thing, you needed a pink slip to sell a car privately.. We just bouight a car than sold a car and we didnt need a pink slip so it probably has gone by the wayside some years back,,, yes , we had it to from memory... Michael

Pinko!! Thats correct, some years ago, NSW had the same thing, you needed a pink slip to sell a car privately.. We just bouight a car than sold a car and we didnt need a pink slip so it probably has gone by the wayside some years back,,, yes , we had it to from memory... Michael

In NSW, you have to get a pink slip every 12 months to renew your rego, QLD doesn't have anything, just keep paying the rego, no-one inspects the car for as long as you own it, BUT, if you want to sell your car, it has to have a current safety certificate displayed in the window, that means the car is passed roadworthy, no valid safety certificate ( they're only good for a month)then you get the $500 fine, THIS is what the thread poster had been stung with.

Shane

Is commonly called a ROADWORTHY certificate and is similar in function to your yearly check.

It should be mandatory in all states to have regular checks.

In NZ you have to have one every 6 months on any car over 5years old. Its all on a database and if you get defected you cant take the car somewhere else and get it passed cos they are easier on it.

Rust in certain parts of the vehicle will get it defeced and to get it passed you must cut the rust out and have metal panels welded in and not primed to take it back for approval. Old Commodores and Toranas were a classic example with the areas around door hinges.
Even a tail light or head light out will fail you in a tough place. More reasonable ones will replace them and charge you for it.. A very good system and has got lots of substandard cars off the road.
Fine for not having it done is $250 and a red sticker Same for no rego.

Bring it in here.

Yes, you need it to sell a car with rego in QLD. You also need to get one if you transfer your interstate registration to QLD or take out a new registration on an unregistered car. It's not an annual thing like it is in some other states. Costs $60.

What it got to do with selling a car? And why did he get fined?

You need one to sell the car in QLD- it states that the car is roadworthy and has no deficient bits (it checks things like brakes, seatbelts, lights, body, suspension, steering, tyres, brakes, exhaust, you get the idea...). While the car is for sale you have to display it in the car window. His car was still advertised as for sale with an invalid certificate so he got fined.

Ahhhh....so you can still sell a car that's not roadworthy, you just cant have it registered?
Makes sense I suppose.

A bit harsh fining someone just because its still advertised and has expired...understandable if he let someone test drive it or buy it and drive away in it...but not just sitting there for sale.....

Just another way to make money I suppose....

For god's sake HAIRY,

A safety cerifiicate is a piece of paper saying that your vehicle hasn't been driven by anyone old than 25 and it has survived.

Now get with it and get back to your VB and JB.

Thats not very nice Why dob another person in who has nothing to do with you.

Let them get caught like the OP did. Hardly fair I think

It is legal to sell a car in QLD WITHOUT a Roadworthy

However it must be deregistered and advertised "AS IS"

Let buyer beware.

Yes it's not nice, but neither are some of the comments above. I wouldn't do it myself though.

There would no point for him to sell the car unregistered. He'd get less money for it.

What would be the point of Curt selling the car unregistered? For the sake of saving $60 on a new safety certificate?

Has been misnamed on here I think

It is a "Roadworthy certificate" or was when I changed my van from WA to Qld in February

It qualifies that the car is "SAFE" or supposedly does depending on who does it.

My previous van had one when I bought it, then I took the wheels off to do the bearings and one mag had an unfixable dent and crack where it had hit a rock.

Obviously not "safe" but it had the cert so it must have been LOL

safety certificate

In November 1999, the safety certificate replaced the roadworthy certificate. A safety certificate covers basic things that could affect the safe operation of the vehicle, such as:

•tyres
•brakes
•steering
•suspension
•body rust or damage
•windscreen
•lights.

Yeah read that so Im wrong but strange that when I reg'd the van I got asked Have you got a roadworthy for it.

Old habits die hard I guess.

Ok the regs are slightly different to what I was led to believe.

Dept of transport ling for selling used light vehicles up to 4.5t

Cheers
Dave

YEs and if you stick you arm or as Ive seen feet they can whack you as well.

It is also illegal to leave a car empty with the motor running which negates turbo timers but trucks do it all the time so..........................................

Surely you can't be serious, what happens if you don't have airconditioning or you just want some fresh air.

I can see not sticking arms or feet out and I know you can't rest your eblow out but not allowed to drive with the window open.

I'm spechless...........................

What happens if you have a convertible..............

are you allowed to drive with a sunroof open?

Mark Weber was definitely correct!!!!!

I just looked this up in the Australian Road Rules available from http://www.ntc.gov.au and didn't find anything about driving with a window down more than 5cm. However, as you'd expect, it is illegal to drive with parts of your body hanging out of the window:

A person must not travel in or on a motor vehicle with any part of the person’s body outside a window or door of the vehicle, unless the person is the driver of the vehicle and is giving a hand signal:
(a) for changing direction to the right in accordance with
rule 50; or
(b) for stopping or slowing in accordance with rule 55.

Rule 55: To give a hand signal for stopping or suddenly slowing, the driver must extend the right arm and hand at right angles from the right side of the vehicle, with the upper arm horizontal and the forearm and hand pointing upwards, and
with the hand open and the palm facing the direction of travel.

Come on Graham post the reference to the two laws you stated.

I checked also...............

Well if you did will save me doing it wont it. But here is one reference


Legislation is QLD Road Rules Division 10 Part 12 Section 213
Making a motor vehicle secure
(1) This section applies to the driver of a motor vehicle who stops and leaves the vehicle on a road, unless the driver need
not comply with the section under another provision of this regulation.
(2) Before leaving the vehicle, the driver must—
(a) apply the vehicle’s parking brake effectively; or
(b) if weather conditions, for example, snow, prevent the effective operation of the parking brake—effectively restrain
the vehicle’s movement in another way.
Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.
(3) Also, before leaving the vehicle the driver must switch off the engine if the driver will be more than 3 m from the
closest part of the vehicle.
Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.
(4) In addition, before leaving the vehicle the driver must remove the ignition key if there is no-one 16 years or older
remaining in the vehicle.
Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.
BTW a penalty unit is $100 in Qld

Orhttp://www.bv.com.au/file/file/New%20Penalties%202009.pdf

I may have misinterpreted the window open bit as this also relates to parking.

Yep, I read that one too- that section is about leaving your stopped vehicle on a road. When you're driving I think you can do whatever you like with your windows as long as your arm doesn't hang out too far- they are there for a reason! :)

How many Queenslanders have been prosecuted for failing to restrain their vehicle in a snowstorm? LOL