new diff lock steering
Submitted: Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 15:18
ThreadID:
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10
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Gossy
Hi all,
I had a 4wd systems lokka installed a few months ago and finally got to use it on the long weekend.
Fantastic results and highly recommened it. Even my wife who use to get out on steep climbs felt confident enough to drive them and is now even talking about going back to the same place and have a girls weekend and drive the whole time. "Felt much safer and more confidence".
Anyway, what I did find was the steering was not what I expected. I didn't get the sense of steering straight and pulling back to the centre but rather a very obvious pull to the left especially under acceleration. going in a straight line had the steering wheel 45 degrees to the right. Once disengaged it was all normal again.
the steering itself 'felt' fine but I wanted to know if anyone else has experienced this. Is it normal or was the installation not correct (done by 4wd systems, not me!)?
What I can confirm is all the comments about the steering being a show stopper to this product. With a vehicle with power steering I can confidently say that the effort to steer the vehicle was almost exactly the same and going around tight bends was no problem (as it disengages). So if you are thinking about this product I say "go for it". The ability of my GQ to climb has improved 100% and now I don't need to worry about momentum etc so whilst everyone else with me was tyre spinning I was just crawling up :)
thanks,
Reply By: Mikee5 (Logan QLD) - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 15:23
Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 15:23
With such a strong pull to the left, is it possible your front drive is only being delivered to the right front wheel? Is it possible the left FWH was disengaged?
AnswerID:
420902
Follow Up By: Gossy - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 15:28
Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 15:28
Definately not as we had an amusing moment as one of the other vehicles was getting stuck on a
hill when we realised the front wheels were not spinning (only 1 engaged).
that doesn't mean that something internal is broken though!
Now you've got me thinking bad expensive thoughts :(
FollowupID:
691110
Reply By: skylion - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 16:43
Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 16:43
My opinion is it will be torque steer, same as you get on most fwd cars under heavy acceleration. Caused by unequal length drive shafts, one side is longer than the other..... Never saw how this could be myself but then I'm no engineer, just opinionated.... FWD cars used to be really bad before this was discovered, even when they had no power compared to today.
AnswerID:
420912
Follow Up By: Gossy - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 17:00
Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 17:00
yes we did have that discussion on the weekend. Having never experienced it before though I wasn't sure how it 'feels'.
I thought it would have been under acceleration only but we found it 'cruising' along a dirt track at a constant speed.
It's fair to say that it's very light and you can't feel it pulling when holding the steering wheel. When I let go of the steering wheel though, then it pulls to the left. I would have assumed that with a diff lock it would return to centre as both wheels are spinning at the same rate; hence my confusion.
FollowupID:
691123
Follow Up By: skylion - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 17:42
Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 17:42
another thought after reading your followup, could the front tyres be slightly different circumferences due to wear, thereby causing a slight windup effect? Maybe worth measuring them to see. Certainly cheaper than the "expensive thoughts" option.
FollowupID:
691130
Follow Up By: Gossy - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 17:58
Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 17:58
Now that you mention it I have 2 different tyres on the front.
done this to wear down some old bush tyres around town and the other is an old spare that I have put on to again buzz around town on.
Only a short weekender so didn't bother putting on the bush tyres.
So one tyre is a bridgestone 694 and the other is a Cooper ST-C. Maybe it's as simple as that?? Would a different tread make that much difference even at crawling speed?
cheers,
FollowupID:
691134
Follow Up By: Madfisher - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 22:09
Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 22:09
You may
well find that the two diff tyres have slightly diff heights. for eg my 245/70/ Kumos where about 10mm lower then my current 694s even though they where the same size.
Cheers Pete
FollowupID:
691202
Follow Up By: Gossy - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:41
Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:41
double checked the tyres this morning and are the same dimensions. I also remembered that this happened in Tassie with the same tyres on the front (my bush set).
Wife is taking it to 4wd systems today for a quick
check.
FollowupID:
691261
Reply By: Member -Dodger - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 17:03
Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 17:03
I have had a lockrite diff locka in my GU for 200k without any problem.
The locka is in the front diff.
I have found the following.
When turning sharply the locka clicks. = (normal)
Steering is a little heavier but without being too heavy.
When one front wheel is off the ground this wheel turns at exactly the same speed as the wheel on the ground. = (normal)
The front diff does not hold as much oil. But only a little less.
On steep climbs the vehicle can just crawl where one wants it to go.
When traversing across slopes and it is slippery some steering is lost. One has to be very judicious with steering in this situation.
Over real rocky ground wheel spin does not happen so CV's are happy.
I have replaced the Auto Hubs with manual. This is so I can position my van in low range on concrete. By leaving hubs unlocked. Nil damage to drivetrain.
AnswerID:
420918
Follow Up By: 2000 Red Rodeo - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 20:25
Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 20:25
Dodger's comments about sum up my experience.
I have a lokka from 4wd systems in the front of my 2000 Rodeo. Makes it almost unstoppable. Only issue is that I now get called on to snatch all those "real" 4wds out.
About the pulling to the left. It could be as simple as the wheel alignment.
Geoff
FollowupID:
691173
Reply By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 17:03
Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 17:03
Gossy,
I have had a Lock Right lokka in the front of our 80 series for 10 years and swear by it.
Yes you do get a bit of straight ahead steering until it unlocks but it isn't a worry.
We also have left others wheel spinning and had to go back and haul them over.
For the money I think they are great.
Ian
AnswerID:
420919
Follow Up By: Gossy - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 17:06
Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 17:06
this is my concern. I don't feel that I have any "straight ahead steering". If I do it's not noticeable.
Doesn't explain my pull to the left though.
FollowupID:
691125
Reply By: Tonyfish#58 - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 17:32
Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 17:32
Gossy -Interesting - Never noticed this myself, but I have never let go of the wheel on a straight to see what happens either :-0
Might give it a go and report back.
Cheers Tony
AnswerID:
420921
Reply By: cruza25 - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 19:03
Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 19:03
gossy
put the front end up axle stands
engage both free wheeling hubs
turn the front prop shaft by hand and you should see both wheels turn
also turning one wheel should turn the other from memory
http://www.4wdsystems.com.au/index.php?id=29
this page has good info and some links to read
if still unsure call in and see tom at 4wdsystems for his opinion if your not too far away
cheers
mike
AnswerID:
420943
Reply By: River Swaggie - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 19:15
Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 19:15
Thanks Gossy for the info..Ive been looking at this for awhile..My ideal setup is a rear LOKKA or Detroit and an ARB in the front of my Hilux...4x4Action just did a review on lockers..
But heah i also like the new specs on the Iphone so the lokka's will hav to wait a bit longer...lol
AnswerID:
420946
Follow Up By: Gossy - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:47
Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:47
like tyres everyone will have their own opinion. I used the same theory with getting my 2nd fuel tank which works on suction rather than a pump; less moving parts the better.
In this case I don't have air hoses and a compressor to rely on so hopefully more reliable are we all get on with age!
Which ever way you go though they are great. Not just for the hardcore 4wder. It's safer and less damage to tracks.
FollowupID:
691262
Reply By: Nutta - Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 20:06
Tuesday, Jun 15, 2010 at 20:06
As mentioned above, with the different tyres not so much the tread but the rolling diameter causing the trouble.
AnswerID:
420955
Reply By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 08:02
Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 08:02
Hi Gossy
Looks like most have said that any imbalance in front drive which can be caused by a number of things is magnified by the torque steer , and my experience was the same.
While wonderful under some circumstances those lockers can be deadly of slippery surfaces clay/snow etc as it breaks traction on a wheel long before an open diff.
The nett effect for us was that we spent less time in GQ 4wd mode (to reduce steering effects) and overall we felt that it was a disadvantage solved by getting an air locker last time.
AnswerID:
421017
Follow Up By: Moose - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 13:38
Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 13:38
G'day Robin
Hope all is
well down your way.
Would what you say re 'deadly on slippery surfaces' also apply if the auto locker was in rear rather than front?
FollowupID:
691293
Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 07:36
Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 07:36
Hi Moose
Yep , going
well but running out of time to do all the little things before the exploroz/canning trip starts this weekend.
The auto locker has significantly less effect on steering from the rear , but then you can't (almost) disconnect it like with front maual hubs.
The effective in the rear is to drive the car into oversteer , instead of understeer. , the more expensive detroit autolockers work better because they require less rotation of wheel before the unlocking action takes place .
FollowupID:
691432
Reply By: billborric - Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 20:21
Wednesday, Jun 16, 2010 at 20:21
Hi Gossy,
I have a Prado with a Detroit TrueTrac in the front diff (10 years). What I have found is just a couple of pounds difference in the tyre pressures (front) is enough to give the effect you talk about.
Also castor seems to effect the situation. I found by giving extra castor to the front end alignment really helped.
So the question is, do you have a
suspension lift and if so do you have castor correction fitted?
AnswerID:
421103
Follow Up By: Gossy - Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 09:22
Thursday, Jun 17, 2010 at 09:22
Ah now this might be it. Yes I have a 2" lift but without caster correction.
Had it checked yesterday and the locker is doing what it should be doing so no problems there.
I'll get the caster done and see what happens there.
Thanks,
FollowupID:
691437