air bags that fit inside a coil spring

Submitted: Monday, Jul 05, 2010 at 20:57
ThreadID: 79885 Views:5289 Replies:11 FollowUps:13
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When towing our van the back of the patrol drops about 50mm it is standard height with aftermarket suspension,if I fitted the air bags that fit inside the coil springs would this be enough to keep the car level and how successful are they.The van is 5.3 mts long twin axle and loaded almost 2.5 tons.
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Reply By: donk - Monday, Jul 05, 2010 at 21:12

Monday, Jul 05, 2010 at 21:12
Are you using a weight distributing hitch at the moment

Site Link as this may be all you need to level the combination

Regards Don
AnswerID: 423161

Follow Up By: carlj - Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 05:53

Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 05:53
The van has a treg hitch fitted to it was on it when I bought it.Towed it back from Melbourne with no problems but it wasn't loaded up then.
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FollowupID: 693585

Follow Up By: carlj - Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 05:54

Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 05:54
It aslo has a set of level rider bars fitted
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FollowupID: 693586

Follow Up By: Member - michael (BOXHD) r (VI - Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 20:57

Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 20:57
hi was taliking to the man from arb store abut air bags and said ti stay clear of the air bagin coil ones as they punture very ealsy iwent and put on poly air bags wich r very tough nio probs cheers mick
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FollowupID: 693706

Follow Up By: Andrew-rodeo - Wednesday, Jul 07, 2010 at 10:56

Wednesday, Jul 07, 2010 at 10:56
the red poly airs do fit inside the coil spring. that is how they go and if u get a kit to suit a leaf sprung rer end they come with coils to contain them.
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FollowupID: 693742

Reply By: Member - Keith C (NSW) - Monday, Jul 05, 2010 at 21:29

Monday, Jul 05, 2010 at 21:29
G/day Carlj,Yep, Polyair or similar, used with a good WDH will work wonders, you may need to upgrade the rear springs as well as air up the rear tyres, It all depends on the ball weight.
AnswerID: 423167

Reply By: SmokeyD - Monday, Jul 05, 2010 at 21:30

Monday, Jul 05, 2010 at 21:30
Hi,

I know nothing about Patrols or indeed towing large vans. However, I do have a set of Polyair springs in my Vitara, and they are awesome. Obviously there are different sizes for different vehcles, but the amount of support they give is nothing short of astounding. You can adjust the amount of pressure, (instructions are to raise the vehicle before you load it up) and adjust it accordingly.
They are simple to install (I did mine myself in half a day) and I think offer up to 500kg each. (for my vehicle that is)

Cheers.
AnswerID: 423168

Reply By: garny - Monday, Jul 05, 2010 at 21:36

Monday, Jul 05, 2010 at 21:36
Hi carlj i have a set of polair bags fitted in my GQ coils and find them very good
i tow a windsor rapid 1.5t loaded singal axel
i must point out that i only use them as a booster to level the vehicle and van
cost from memory $350
regards garny
AnswerID: 423171

Follow Up By: mechpete - Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 20:28

Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 20:28
Iv.e got poly airs under my GQ wgn .have had for many years with no problems
I don,t tow a van but when we go outback with the dirtbikes its very heavily loaded . the only thing thats noticeable is it oversteers when loaded an the bags are pumped up .
they work very well
mechpete
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FollowupID: 693702

Reply By: Batt's - Monday, Jul 05, 2010 at 22:20

Monday, Jul 05, 2010 at 22:20
I had poly air bags they work well. Don't overload the front of the van 60% front 40% rear my vehicle dropped 40mm then pumped back up 40mm at 29psi check ball weight isn't past the rating
AnswerID: 423182

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 09:08

Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 09:08
Its not the back you worry about its how much taken off the front and airbags no matter how hard you pump them dont and cant replace the weight on the front wheels.

Only a properly setup WDH can do that.

This has been thrashed out endlessly on various forums in the past and has also been tested in 4wd mags and proved to be correct

The level riders if they are the shepherds crook bars are not suitable for a van of 2500kg.


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Reply By: donk - Monday, Jul 05, 2010 at 22:28

Monday, Jul 05, 2010 at 22:28
Bear in mind the fact that when you hitch the van on the weight on the front axle of the tow vehicle will be reduced

A weight distributing hitch will lift the vehicle rear & push the front down to add weight back on to the front axle to aid steering & braking where as airbags will only lift the rear but not add weight back on to the front

Weight distributing hitches however can cause problem when towing off road on undulating surfaces where there are humps & dips on the track

Regards Don
AnswerID: 423183

Reply By: Nomadic Navara - Monday, Jul 05, 2010 at 23:21

Monday, Jul 05, 2010 at 23:21
As Don said, it is not a matter of simply getting your tug to look level, if you want good handling you need to get the weight back onto your front wheels. The only way to do that is to use a weight distribution hitch.

Have a look at the following link for a selection of these.

Weight Distribution Hitches

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AnswerID: 423194

Reply By: Ray - Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 08:44

Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 08:44
I have a pair of airbags on my 80ser L/cruiser. I also have a small compressor to adjust them and a pressure gauge on the dash to check their pressure. I tow a 17' 6" caravan and use leveler bars. The system works wonderfull. I baught the airbags and compressor from trucksprings .com and fitted them myself.
AnswerID: 423217

Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh - Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 13:41

Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 13:41
Hi Ray,
Did they supply the dash gauge as well?
What size hole did you drill through the guts where the 12mm bolt is for the bump stops that the air hose goes up through?

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Follow Up By: Ray - Wednesday, Jul 07, 2010 at 08:20

Wednesday, Jul 07, 2010 at 08:20
Hi Hairs & Fysh,
It was some time ago but I cannot remember drilling a hole through the bumber stop mounting but can remeber cutting the bumper stop off. Trucksprings .com supplied everything that I needed including the pressure gauge. Delivery from the US was exceeptionally fast.
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FollowupID: 693725

Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh - Wednesday, Jul 07, 2010 at 11:13

Wednesday, Jul 07, 2010 at 11:13
Thanks Ray,
I was thinking a gauge near the dash would be a good idea.
I tow our Jayco Swan, which is pretty heavy at 1200kg empty, also a horse float with a pair of Nags in it, as well as my Carpenters work trailer. So tow ball weight can vary as well as the gear that get thrown in the back, like horse gear, bags of cement/concret mix and other building produces.
Cheers.

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FollowupID: 693749

Reply By: Member - Alan John C (WA) - Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 10:46

Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 10:46
Carlj WE currently have a Windsor genisus 6.3 and I fitted airbags to the 100series and they are fine for what they are designed for but we still need wdbars and we had a treg hitch too, due to fitting reece heavy duty weight distribution bars I needed to replace the treg with a Hyland hitch so as we were able to use towball for the reece hitch and still have the movement that the treg gave.

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AnswerID: 423230

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 12:29

Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 12:29
Carl,
Have you heard about the rear coil spring towers breaking away from the chassis??? They are more likely to do this with polyairs - plenty of examples on the Patrol forum.
AnswerID: 423237

Reply By: Trevor R (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 13:34

Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 13:34
carlj,

The polyairs (only one of a few brands) work well. This is all I use to tow my 2.5T van and whilst I am mindful of all the above reasons for useing more "towing aids" I have not yet felt the need for any more assisstance. I have a seriously loaded setup and have done many many hundreds of thousands of k's without ill effect. Whilst I may be on a time limit for my "luck" I have a lot of confidence in the way things are setup for me.

I have every confidence the airbags will level or at least come very close to levelling the car up. I have 300+kg ball weight and mine sits just fine.

I would suggest you do some miles the way things are and if you feel uncomfortable in any way or feel the need for further towing aids then look at shelling out more hard earned on these items at that stage.

Regards,
Trevor.
AnswerID: 423244

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 15:07

Tuesday, Jul 06, 2010 at 15:07
I would suggest that you do a few measurements before and after hooking up.
If you have 300kg on the ball your front guards will have risen about 50mm at least.

Pumping up your polyairs wont alter that as they only lift what is above them.

The best description of WDH effect I have read is
Think of a wheelbarrow Push down on the handles till the wheel comes off the ground Imagine the legs as your rear suspension.

Put the legs on a large block of wood or something.

Apply the same amount of weight to the handles.

Does the barrow level No because it cant. It only lifts the point holding the load higher.

However straighten out the joint between the van and the car and it then pushes the front down a bit pivoting on the rear suspension.

Thats what a WDH does and Polyairs cant.

There is a slight resistance from front springs and engine weight but the same applies.

A guy where I used to live towed a big Coromal with a Patrol and no WDH I would hate to meet him on a wet road as from a 100 metres away you could see right under the car the front was so high.

He didnt need a WDH "it handled fine" Used to put skinny split rim wheels on it as well.. No wonder there is accidents.

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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Wednesday, Jul 07, 2010 at 17:19

Wednesday, Jul 07, 2010 at 17:19
"This is all I use to tow my 2.5T van"

Sorry I should add that the polyairs are not all I use, I have had the heavy rate coils put in in place of the OME coils in my Green GU.

Graham, I understand the reasoning for WDH and do believe many setups require them. The more you tow, the more you can gauge when they are required. I have on occassions required all my brakeing power to avoid animal strikes and trust me when I say the way my setup (the Green GU and Van) handles in this situation gives off nothing but confidence for the driver (me). I had a similar emergency brake situation to avoid a large roo on route to last years national EO gathering in St George but this time I was towing with my "other" GU (the grey one) and this combination was very different to my usual green Gu and van. If I were constantly towing with the grey GU I would require changing things to inspire more confidence.

Thanks for your comments, and on the whole I agree with what you say.

Cheers, Trevor.
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FollowupID: 693780

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, Jul 07, 2010 at 17:26

Wednesday, Jul 07, 2010 at 17:26
I also have EFS Progressive springs in my Cruiser and STILL use a WDH.

Braking of course will put the weight back onto the front wheels and its the way you set the brakes up that gives you the confidence.

Rather different if you get caught on a wet slippery road with not enough weight on your steering wheels.
Different story then.

However you may do as you choose but I prefer to go with the believers rather than the deniers and know my rig is balanced correctly and just doesnt "look" correct...


Cheers

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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Wednesday, Jul 07, 2010 at 18:49

Wednesday, Jul 07, 2010 at 18:49
Valid comments Graham and duely noted by me.

Regards, Trevor.
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