intelligent battery charger

the following is an email I have sent to projecta, hopefully someone on this forum may have an answer for me also.

To whom it may concern,
I recently purchased an IC1500 projecta intellicharger for my Amp-tech deep cycle AGM 90 ah caravan battery. My plan is to use the onboard battery to power my 12v lights and appliances and to replace the 240v – 12v power converter with the charger so I may use the charger as a power supply. On advice from the salesman this is the right charger for my intended use. The problem I am experiencing is that the charger appears to be heating the battery up to much, so much that it is almost impossible to hold your hand on the battery casing for more than a few seconds or risk being burnt!
Now according to the charger instructions if a battery is sulphated then the charger will begin in desulphation mode, this has never happened according to the light panel which I believe would be correct as I doubt the battery has any significant sulphation. The charger appears to commence charging in the absorption mode then flicking back to the bulk charge mode where it remains until I need to turn it off as the heat build up is so great. The charger itself only gets slightly warm through the process.
The other interesting point is the voltage output at the various stages of charging does not appear to match what the instructions show. During the bulk charge stage there should be 14.4v delivered and the absorption stage should be 13.8v, these voltages seem to be reversed according to the light panel although correct according to the order of charge.
The instruction booklet states that; “This is a fully automatic battery charger with 7 charge stages. Automatic charging protects your battery from being overcharged so you can leave the charger connected to the battery indefinitely.”
I feel that the heat being generated in my battery may not only damage it but may also result in a fire!

cheers John
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Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 19:02

Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 19:02
I had a smart charger do that Found out the battery was stuffed and got so hot it nearly melted


Was the one in a post above this one about smart chargers
AnswerID: 424420

Follow Up By: bigjohnbundy - Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 21:46

Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 21:46
Hopefully not the battery only ever got to use it for one short trip over the past 18 months when i bought it, but have always kept it in a charged state with automatic arlec 6 amp charger. The battery usually holds better than 12.4v.

cheers John
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FollowupID: 694880

Reply By: Member - Alan John C (WA) - Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 19:19

Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 19:19
I would take graham advice and have battery checked I run a projecta IC750 in my van charging two deep cycle calcium batteries in parrallel and I leave on all time much better than the converter that was in it at least you get your batteries fully charged. I have another one is the cruiser to maintain the AGM 120 ah battery which gets turned on on weekend to do its thing and the battery does not get hot regards Alan.

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AnswerID: 424424

Follow Up By: bigjohnbundy - Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 21:48

Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 21:48
Hi Alan
I am going away for a week but when I get back I think I will take the battery and have it checked just to be on the safe side.

cheers John
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FollowupID: 694881

Reply By: Battery Value Pty Ltd - Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 19:34

Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 19:34
Hello John,

here are a couple of checks I recommend to do:

measure the voltage of your battery several hours after it's come off the charger, and record it.
Then connect a load of several amps (like a fridge, or a 12V incandescent light bulb of 21W or similar) to the battery.
And the voltmeter goes across it to let you take readings every 10 minutes over a 2 hour time span.
If the voltage holds up above 12,6V under load at the end of the 2 hour period, there is still hope your battery hasn't suffered too much.

Don't get confused about the anti sulphation voltages/pulses etc, this is marketing gimmick.
Your charger starts off with the bulk charging stage with a voltage of up to 14.4~14.8V.
Ideally, the charger should also check for a shorted out cell, before it applies the full bulk charge voltage.
Some chargers achieve this by sending pulsing current through the battery. This gives the controller enough info about the general state of the battery, and whether or not all cells are intact.
Marketing folks interpret this pulsing as desulphation stage while in reality, this is only a way of testing for the integrity of the battery before subjecting it to the high bulk charging current.

Depending on the state of charge of your battery (say 90% fully charged), this voltage level should be reached within 30 to 60 minutes at the latest.
After another 60 to 120 minutes or so (while the battery absorbs the charge at this voltage level), the charging current should have tapered off sufficiently, causing the charger to drop the voltage back to float level of around 13.6V.

Observe the temperatures carefully because your battery may have dried out to such an extent, that the charging current won't taper off. Thus, the battery gets hotter and hotter while the (dumb, or blindfolded)* charger doesn't notice this and keeps the boost (bulk) voltage up, causing the battery develop even more heat.

If your charger came with a battery temperature sensor, please use it.
Check in the manual, if the charger's got an overriding time limitation on the bulk/absorption stages.

*dumb in this context means, the charger doesn't notice there is anything wrong with the battery.
Blindfolded means, it's got no additional feedback loop via a battery temperature sensor.

Question: did you ever have some loads connected to your battery while it was being charged?

Just let us know and we'll try to pinpoint the problem.

Best regards, Peter
AnswerID: 424427

Follow Up By: bigjohnbundy - Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 21:44

Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 21:44
Hi Peter the only devices connected at the time was a tv set top box in standby and an automatic alden satellite system, once again though only in standby, not actually operating.

cheers John
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FollowupID: 694879

Follow Up By: Battery Value Pty Ltd - Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 22:28

Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 22:28
hmm...Arlec charger huh?

Changes are this little beast has overcharged your battery over time, and the other 15 amp

not-so-smart-either-charger has made it fully go tits up by virtually boiling it dry...

Anyway, I was speculating that the small loads could have fooled the 15A charger into keeping the boost/absorption voltage up for a long time.
Maybe you could find out from your charger's supplier, what the current threshold is for absorption/float switch-over.
If it's lower than the combined load currents of your standby'd gear, then the 15A unit could well have contributed in a big way to your battery's demise.

Just in case you're going to be in the market soon, for a quality AGM battery, and maybe a bulletproof charger at prices you won't find anywhere else in Australia, pls check out my profile.

For a quick reply to your questions, just use this contact form.

Best regards, Peter
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FollowupID: 694892

Reply By: Maîneÿ . . .- Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 19:42

Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 19:42
Have you tried to charge the battery with any another battery charger ??

Does the battery still get HOT ??

If so there is a common elemant, the 2 x battery chargers make it Hot, so more than likely it's stuffed

Maîneÿ . . .
AnswerID: 424428

Follow Up By: CJ - Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 20:04

Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 20:04
Dtto but visa versa - have you hooked up the charger to another battery??

CJ
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FollowupID: 694865

Follow Up By: bigjohnbundy - Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 21:51

Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 21:51
Hi guys thanks for the reply, I have been keeping the battery charged previously in my shed with a 6 ah arlec auto charger and while it does get warm it has never got hot. And no i have not yet tried the new charger on another battery, dont have one but I may look at trying on the car battery when i return from my trip away.

cheers John
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FollowupID: 694882

Follow Up By: Lex M (Brisbane) - Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 22:00

Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 22:00
If you've been running it continuously on a 6 Amp Arlec dumb charger then I would suspect that it hasn't done the battery a lot of good.

I hope I'm wrong.
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FollowupID: 694885

Follow Up By: bigjohnbundy - Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 22:24

Sunday, Jul 18, 2010 at 22:24
no I havent run it continuously just top it up every 6 weeks or so.

Cheers John
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FollowupID: 694891

Reply By: madcow - Monday, Jul 19, 2010 at 09:39

Monday, Jul 19, 2010 at 09:39
Without sounding rude is the charger on the correct setting ( gel, etc) for your type of battery? I have the same charger in my camper and are impressed so far. I'll be watching this thread with interest!
AnswerID: 424469

Follow Up By: feraldisco2 - Friday, Jul 23, 2010 at 18:14

Friday, Jul 23, 2010 at 18:14
good point...

I don't think the IC1500 has switchable amperage though - think you need IC2500.

One of the things that attracted me to the ICs is their temperature sensing. However, I ended up getting a good price on a 2/10/21amp Ozcharge and this has been great - brought a couple of dead batteries back to life. The rejuvenation and equalisation modes aren't just a gimick. One battery showed error message and wouldn't charge but was then fine after running rejuvenation/equalisation
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FollowupID: 695472

Follow Up By: feraldisco2 - Friday, Jul 23, 2010 at 18:17

Friday, Jul 23, 2010 at 18:17
good point...

I don't think the IC1500 has switchable amperage though - think you need IC2500.

One of the things that attracted me to the ICs is their temperature sensing. However, I ended up getting a good price on a 2/10/21amp Ozcharge and this has been great - brought a couple of dead batteries back to life. The rejuvenation and equalisation modes aren't just a gimick. One battery showed error message and wouldn't charge but was then fine after running rejuvenation/equalisation
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FollowupID: 695475

Reply By: Mike DiD - Friday, Jul 23, 2010 at 21:23

Friday, Jul 23, 2010 at 21:23
"My plan is to use the onboard battery to power my 12v lights and appliances and to replace the 240v – 12v power converter with the charger so I may use the charger as a power supply."

ANY Smartcharger with 3 or more stages will stay in Absorption Mode (14.4 volts ) FOREVER if you are using it as a Power Supply and the appliances are drawing more than 10 % of the maximum current. i.e. 1.5 amps for a 15 amp charger.

This high voltage apllied for a long time will cook any LeadAcid Battery (Wetcell, GEL, AGM).

If you want to use a Power Supply as a permanent charger it has to put out the FLOAT volatge - 13.6 volts. This will still charge batteries to 100% - it just takes longer.

Solar Regulators have 3 separate connections for Appliance, Battery and Solar Panel to avoid this problem.
AnswerID: 425039

Reply By: bigjohnbundy - Tuesday, Aug 03, 2010 at 22:19

Tuesday, Aug 03, 2010 at 22:19
Just to follow up, I believe one of you guys were right in that the items using power were causing the charger to remain in charge mode, this was probably the cause of the battery getting hot. Fortunately the battery is still ok. But just an addit the chat=rger itself also had problems and has now been replaced under warranty. Thanks for all of the replies.
John
AnswerID: 426119

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