School Zones

Submitted: Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 08:50
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Let me have a winge. Last night on TV in W.A. there was a program on school zones proposing that the 40k limit be imposed for the full day. I can't disagree with that but the presenter was standing in front of an illuminated school zone sign but these signs are very few. Most school zone signs are not illuminated and some are very inconspicuous. If this legislation is introduced all signs should be made universal and no standing be permitted 100 metres either side of a school. I have known Mums dropping their little kiddywinks off for school and completely blocking off the view of the crossing.

Another winge of mine is people who continuously drive in the right hand lane of a dual carriageway, freeways excepted, who have no intension of turning right. This practice encumbers other people from entering the road from the right and wishing to turn right. I believe that people who stick in the right hand lane believe that they can go faster in this lane. What happened to the keep left rule?
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Reply By: racinrob - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 09:15

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 09:15
School zones are a pretty contentious issue here in NSW Ray. Schools that have an overhead pedestrian footway and barrier down the median strip and/or footpath are still zoned 40kph plus the fact that on "Student Free Days" the rules still apply. Some parents are calling for the limit to be dropped to 30 kph
The transport minister tries to justify it but to me it is still a grab for cash by the government. My whinge for the day, thank you all.

racinrob.
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Reply By: MrBitchi (QLD) - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 09:18

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 09:18
They trialled the all day 40k limit up here in Brizvegas a couple of years ago but dropped the idea due to overwhelming negative feedback.
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Reply By: Member - Kevin B1 (WA) - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 09:23

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 09:23
Ray,, It's my understanding that it is illegal to travel in the right hand lane if the posted speed limit is 90km or above unless you are about to do a right turn. This is the law in WA but not sure about about other states and this applys to any duel carriageway.
As far as the school zones are concerned I don't have a problem with the suggested change, but as you said as long as they are clearly marked.
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Follow Up By: Notso - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 09:40

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 09:40
I think this is pretty general, it was enforced a few years back but there are a whole lot of these laws that nobody seems to care much about any more. Things like failing to put a nose bag on your horse when it's tied up in the street.

Extract from QLD advice to drivers.

Keeping left

On single-lane roads, drivers must stay as close as practical to the left side of the road.

When the speed limit is 90 km/h or more on multi-lane roads, you must not drive in the right-hand lane unless you are:

* overtaking
* turning right
* making a U-turn
* avoiding an obstacle
* driving in congested traffic.

It is an offence to drive in the right lane if none of the above criteria are occurring.

This rule also applies to a road with a speed limit of 80 km/hr or less if there is a KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING sign.

Drivers are allowed to overtake on the left on all multi-lane roads.

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Follow Up By: carlsp - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 09:44

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 09:44
This law cannot be enforced unless there is nowhere to turn right. Example a freeway with no right hand off ramp. The driver just goes to court and says I was waiting for the off ramp. The magistrate lets him off. Police know this and do not police this rule.

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Follow Up By: Member - The Bushwhackers -NSW - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 22:33

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 22:33
Hi Carlsp

Son in law is Highway Patrol NSW. For every stupid 'excuse' a driver offers him, he has a reply that would result in a greater fine. Basically he says, 'do you want to keep going with the lies?'. They generally wear the original infringement.

Cheers, Dave

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Follow Up By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 07:49

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 07:49
I don't care what the posted speed limit is, KEEP LEFT unless turning right, and I have seen drivers get into the right lane to turn right 2 Klms from the turn , that to me is a sign of incompetence .

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Reply By: Shaker - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 09:34

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 09:34
The most annoying thing about school zones here in Victoria is that there are no "End School Zone" signs, as they have in other States.
I also believe that if drivers are forced to do 40kmh to help avoid accidents, then school children should be forced to used school crossings & not cross the road like Brown's cows, picking their way through the slowly moving vehicles, as they do here in Traralgon.
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Follow Up By: Fred G NSW - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:16

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:16
Dead right Shaker. Also, all the parents who want to all park at the fronty gate at the same time, to pick up (and drop off) little Johnny, obstructing all and sundry, need the education more than most kids I reckon. What I see from the drivers seat of my bus every day is dead set scary.

Fred.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:32

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:32
True, God help them if they had to actually walk a few metres, & thye wonder why we have an obesity problem!


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Follow Up By: Member - William H (WA) - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:11

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:11
Bring back the scool busses and solve the problem with the car drop off at the schools.
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Follow Up By: Fred G NSW - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:19

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:19
Wot ? No school buses in WA.

William, I reckon that Yota of yours would be just the thing to clear some of those wayward parking mums with their 4 doors open in bus stops each morning and arvo. Sensational rig mate.

Fred.
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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:35

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:35
I remember school buses ... and waiting in line ... and a bunch of watchful teachers ........ and getting a cuff in the ear by a teacher for running around on the road or yahooing ......

Clever how motorists are now held responsible for incidents/behaviour that the education dept/govt ..... USED to keep in check.
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Follow Up By: Fred G NSW - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:18

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:18
Excellent comment Oz.
The teachers now can't get them on the bus quick enough and the door closed quick enough, so they become the drivers responsibility, till we drop them off. I'd love to be able to present some parents with a copy of the on board security video, which we don't have, but some do.
Always easier for the authorities to make someone else responsible it seems.


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Follow Up By: Wherehegon - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 14:23

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 14:23
Very true Oz, problem now is the teachers are not even allowed to hold little Johnys hand or little Marys hand as they can be charged, world gone mad thanks to the do gooders, no wonder there are kids out there that don't give a toss and if there doing the wrong thing crossing on the roads you bip them to warn them and you end up with some 5 year old or more telling you to get f-----, we have 4 teachers in our street, some of the story's they tell us. Teachers have lost most of their rights these days, even if there are kids fighting and trying to kill each other they are not allowed to touch them in any way, have to stand there and tell little johny to stop fighting even while he's laying the boot into some other kids head while he's on the ground, Bring back the cain I reckon pull em back in line. Give teachers back the authority they use to have......Regards Steve
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Reply By: carlsp - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 09:50

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 09:50
In WA (and I imagine in other states as well) an illuminated school sigh (ring of red flashing LED lights) has to be paid for either by the school, council, PNC or a concerned good citizen with spare cash. The road department will not put them up.

The alternative is to catch your local MP in bed with a prostitute, photograph it and blackmail him to get one installed. I find this usually short cuts the red tape and makes things happen much quicker. It is worth spending the extra money on a young blonde expensive one.
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Follow Up By: Fred G NSW - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:10

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:10
Before we follow that advice, we need evidence that it actually works LOL.
Photos please :-))))
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:34

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:34
An illuminated sign makes you aware that it is a school time, how in the hell would we know, we haven't got kids!

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 16:27

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 16:27
what happened to the flags that would get put out during school zone restrictions??

cheap and effective
In year 8 that was one of the things us boarders would get rostered for the week doing along with raising and lowering the australian flag

the outgoing guy would train the incomming one - I remember being shown how to remove and fold the flag without putting it on the ground
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Reply By: The roadrunner - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:16

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:16
I reckon the there should be end of school signs in vic, does the end of the limit end where the sign on the othe side of the road starts

i agree here in Warrnambool one of the most annoying things is drivers driving at or under the speed limit in the right lane and they wont move i thought it was (keep left unless overtaking), and the other thing is people not knowing how to use a roundabout
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Follow Up By: Fred G NSW - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:18

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:18
OMG...don't start on roundabouts...:-)))

Fred
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Follow Up By: OREJAP - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 16:31

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 16:31
End school zone sign. Why? If the sign is posted stating the maximum you can travel, ie 40,60 80 100 or whatever why do you need a sign to tell you to end that zone? Wrong.. So if you are travelling in 40k school zone & the next sign you see is 60 then you are in a 60 zone....if you are in a residential area and there are no signs then the maximum you can travel at is 50k/pH that's the law. On a f/way if there are no signs stating keep left unless overtaking & the maximum speed limit is 80k/pH then I can sit in the right lane all day. What if another driver wants to travel at 70 in the 80 zone he/she is doing nothing illegal maybe discurteous by travelling under the maximum limit posted. Whilst we are on crossings yesterday in my local town I was slowing to a walking pace because school children proceeded to walk across a pedestrian crossing (not children's crossing) and out in front of me walks a female senior citizen...she saw me and just kept on walking. We were about 40 metres from the ped crossing. Yes, illegal however I just stopped and looked at her I didn't abuse her but my wife in the front passenger seat enquired from the elderly cit. "Why don't you set an example for the young folk & for your safety use the crossing" Reply, "Get stuffed" So it's not only our kids that do the wrong thing...I wonder where they learn bad habits from. Thank God I am retiring soon my years of dealing with the public all day every day has worn me out!!!
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Follow Up By: Fred G NSW - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 18:04

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 18:04
AAAhhhhhyesss...the elderly cits, who, head down, backside up, just do a sharp left or right turn to cross the road and expect motorists not to come in contact with them, and are oblivious to anything going on around them..sheeez.
And what about the more recent phenomenon....those electric gopher bugies with the sand flags :-)))) Senior cits on a mission of destruction on the footpath LOL LOL (with apologies to all responsible users of this mode of transport.)

This is a great thread Ray....and was always bound to get off track mate :-)))

Fred.
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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 19:07

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 19:07
FollowupID: 695600 Submitted: Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 16:31
OREJAP posted:
End school zone sign. Why? If the sign is posted stating the maximum you can travel, ie 40,60 80 100 or whatever why do you need a sign to tell you to end that zone? Wrong.. So if you are travelling in 40k school zone & the next sign you see is 60 then you are in a 60 zone....i

.............................................................................................

The reason for the end school zone sign .... is because its easier to bang one of those up at taxpayer expense ..... than ripping out the closest 50kph sign and placing it at the end of the designated school zone area.

In some cases, one can be miles from a school before finding a speed zone sign carefully located amongst the bushes or roadside advertising.

Why the heck the clowns that come up with all this nonsense just dont paint the gutters or have a wide, brightly coloured, centre line on the road for school areas is beyond me ....
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Follow Up By: Fred G NSW - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 19:18

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 19:18
Why the heck the clowns that come up with all this nonsense just dont paint the gutters or have a wide, brightly coloured, centre line on the road for school areas is beyond me ....

Oz.....we're on the same wavelength mate :-)

Fred.
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Reply By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:31

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:31
Darwin has had all day school zones for years now and it is a pain for driving around the suburbs or main dual lane carriage ways when a school also abuts the carriage way.

During the day when school is in and all students are supposed to be in class why should we need go slow zones.

These same students don't have a problem with traffic on weekends at shopping centres or bus terminals or beaches. The little ones from primary schools get picked up and dropped off by parents or on weekends are escorted by parents.

I think this is another overkill coming from a few over zealous members of the public who I have found often don't even have kids of their own. I also believe it is another go at cotton balling our society and raising a generation of very soft kids.

Further, I find it amusing that along Stirling Hwy in Claremont there are schools exiting on to the highway but no school zone is in place there - we can't have the influential members of the public getting late for their office in central.

Double standards and overkill.









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Follow Up By: 3GoBush - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 09:06

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 09:06
The school zones used to be 7am to 9.30 am the 3 pm to 5.30 pm.

But people complained it was to hard to remember, so they said ok we will make it really simple, it will now be 7 am to 5.30 pm except for weekends and school holidays.

The moral of the story is Be careful what you wish for.
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Reply By: Member - John and Val - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:47

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:47
Ray,

School zones in the ACT are all day. Great revenue raiser, especially since it's mainly NSW drivers who are caught, and they don't have a vote in the ACT.

John
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Reply By: gottabjoaken - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:54

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 10:54
And to make it worse, SA has 25kph zones "When Children are Present". Any day, all day, all night. School times, school terms, school holidays, bank holidays, and when it is a Pupil Free day too.

Of course, if a child pops out from behind a hedge, and you are doing 60, the 35k over the limit hits you with a huge fine and (I think) 3 demerit points.

And don't get me started on how you tell that a 5 ft person is a child, a teenager, or a short adult.

Ken
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:29

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 11:29
and dont forget a todler in a pram or baby in arms
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Reply By: bennyzbit - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 15:30

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 15:30
In Qld when we see the School Zone sign we see the "times from and to+ etc written as such 8.ooam to 9.oo am. Silly it is the whole time that is important .. not a size reduced time for the minutes.

In retirement I don't wear a watch. The days are determined by whats on TV that night Neither times or days matter.

This was not my idea (but do you still flash oncoming traffic - to get them to slow down- when you have passed their speed (revenue raising") camera. Naughty !!! but if you do .....read on.

Suppose on passing into a school zone within its active days/hours.. we were required by regulation to activate our hazard flashers as is allowed in fog conditions.

As a dumbbo retiree oblivious to time or day your action may mean I look at my speedo, recognise the change in road conditions and slow down to an appropriate legal speed and activate my flashers as a proactive reminder to others.

Its a win win situation on safety but not on revenue raising.
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 15:36

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 15:36
I like your idea.

Have a good one
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Reply By:- Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 17:11

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 17:11
in victoria there is a law that says you must keep to the left side of the road where practical at all times ;;i know as i was pinched for it after a slight collision with a milk cart coming the other way ;pity this law is not enforced for the idiots that clog the right lane bye barry
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Reply By: Hairs & Fysh - Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 19:23

Saturday, Jul 24, 2010 at 19:23
There is to much inconsistency with Schools Zone, not only from State to State, but with in a State.
Our local primary school which is on a main thoroughfare has the signage plus the road painted 40 sign. Yet traveling through Byron the Friday before last, their have the Flashing lights and the little white triangles paint on the road.
These schools are on back roads within the town.
We can't get an unmarked patrol car to visit.
A very friend was traveling through a school zone on the Pacific H/Way at Woodburn, Northern NSW on a pupal free day, She had her kids on the car on their way up the coast. Got fined for Ten K's over in a school zone.
She argued that there weren't any kids at school.
Nope, the Copper pointed out that the sign states
Mon-Fri 8.00am -930am 2.30pm - 4.00pm.

This is an interesting read, CARR Citizzens Against Road Ripoffs


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Reply By: Member - Old Girl (QLD) - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 10:45

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 10:45
We live on the side street of a High school. One morning hubby was reversing out taking our kids to school. Our drive way is higher than the road, (higher enough for the camper to hide for a moment while reversing in.) I walked to the gate he was looking up and down the foot path for people walking ready to stop. I happened to look too and yelled out to John to stop. A suv pulled in at the end of our drive to drop off their child. This idiot put his (his) child between a reversing 4x4 and his car. Did I go to town on him. He didn't get a chance to tell me where to get off as he took off, his child was left standing next to me. Poor kid. This same idiot now pulls up on the kerb where there is a no standing zone sign. I have reported this idiot to the school. Their hands are tied. I had to laught just this last week he dropped off his child took off fast and his child hopped into another car with another child driving. bludging I expect. I'm working at a school and believe me many great teachers are worn out from parents that don't give any thought on law and order. Where are we with out it? By the way we now reverse in the drive. Other people still think its ok to park at the end of our drive way. One woman sat there with her music up loud she couldn't hear my horn. I had to get out and knock on her window. Dumb!!!
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Reply By: Chipsy - Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 12:36

Sunday, Jul 25, 2010 at 12:36
I find it a real worry that everyone is so concerned with the inconvenience of slowing down and not at all about the safety of the children getting to and from school. theyre kids, they dont pay enough attention, theyre still learning and if they run out in front of a car travlleing at 40k theyre less likely to be killed or injured that if that same car was travlling at 60. simple.

I live in darwin and yes the all day school zones are a pain at times but safety for kids is the priority and where are we all going in such a hurry anyway?

its not a revenue raiser here as I almost never see cops policing it while on a daily basis I see self sentred idiots driving though way too fast. I wish the police were there more often.



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Follow Up By: Mike DiD - Friday, Jul 30, 2010 at 07:49

Friday, Jul 30, 2010 at 07:49
At 10kph they're much less likely to be killed.

We need 10kph zones between every school and every childs home at any time when they may be near a road.

. . . no, we need to make that 5kph.
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Reply By: Holiday Hound - Wednesday, Jul 28, 2010 at 21:05

Wednesday, Jul 28, 2010 at 21:05
I think 40 is a good idea- but -they need to make it VERY OBVIOUS that the 40 is in operation. Many zones around here operate from 7.30 and even though you see no students we still see police sitting with their radar guns! There are often just way to many signs on the roadside for a driver to take. We had some visitors from Europe who were gobsmacked with the amount of signage we have here.

I drive kids to school each day through about 4 other school zones, and usually the parents who are dropping off at their school, do the crazier things, like not crossing their kids at the crossing, double parking etc.

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Follow Up By: OzTroopy - Friday, Jul 30, 2010 at 14:39

Friday, Jul 30, 2010 at 14:39
Yes life was certainly simpler before the govt started funding the signage industry.

35mph limit meant you could drive at speeds of up toi 35mph keeping in mind that you had to be aware of school kids, other pedestrians, traffic at intersections etc ... and might need to drive slower sometimes.


Now you dont have to keep anything in mind ..... just blunder along from one sign to the next ... which is like doing a jigsaw ... Without looking at the picture on box cover.
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Reply By: Mike DiD - Friday, Jul 30, 2010 at 07:51

Friday, Jul 30, 2010 at 07:51
"all the parents who want to all park at the fronty gate at the same time, to pick up (and drop off) little Johnny, obstructing all and sundry,"

This is the same problem as people who hog the right line - being brought up with an "I'll drive/park where I bloodywell want to".
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