When is a Warranty not a Warranty
Submitted: Thursday, Feb 03, 2011 at 21:43
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dazza62
Had an interesting issue today that I would appreciate some thoughts on from all those Consumer Experts on exploroz.
In June 2009 I had a long range auxiliary fuel tank fitted to my vehicle. This is the style that pumps from the aux tank to standard tank at the push of a button.
Has worked quite
well in all that time apart from being noisy when the pump is operating.
On a recent trip a long way from anywhere it was time to fill the tank from the sub tank. Hit the button and the silence was deafening. Checked switch for a loose wire - all ok. Checked fuses - all ok. Problem - pump no go. Thankfully we were able to locate a fuel station and top up as we had nothing to syphon from bottom to top tanks. Lesson learnt there for next desert crossing.
Now the problem. Finally found time to drop into the supplier/installer of this tank who checked it out and confirmed that the pump had stopped. Had never seen this happen before and it would be covered under warranty. Will have to order one in and will need your vehicle for about 30 mins to fit new pump. All good I thought.
Was advised by telephone today that I would have to pay for the new pump and labour. The old pump would be sent back and if found to be a warranty claim I would receive a refund.
Hello - is this warranty or a nice way to get the old pump back and say sorry not covered by warranty. Not only am I out of pocket but I don't have the old pump to persue any other possible courses of action.
Would appreciate some thoughts from anyone that has had this experience.
For the experts Victorian Law will apply!!!
Reply By: Steve D1 - Thursday, Feb 03, 2011 at 21:51
Thursday, Feb 03, 2011 at 21:51
G'day Dazza
While I would not call this standard practice, it is quite common, mainly with electrical items.
Steve
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Reply By: Outback Gazz - Thursday, Feb 03, 2011 at 21:51
Thursday, Feb 03, 2011 at 21:51
Dazza - buy a new pump, pay someone to fit it and get on with life and you will relieve yourself from the stress !! Must have added 40 years to my life using this philosophy !
Happy Travelling
Gazz
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Follow Up By: dazza62 - Thursday, Feb 03, 2011 at 22:11
Thursday, Feb 03, 2011 at 22:11
Thanks Gazz - Have used that philosophy pretty much in the past so don't get stressed.
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Reply By: AGNI4x4 - Thursday, Feb 03, 2011 at 21:57
Thursday, Feb 03, 2011 at 21:57
Dazza have been in the industry for many years and certianly can see your point. Sadly but the installer does not produce the pump and therefore the covered or not covered by warranty decision is not his to make.
Personally what i do for clients is I would make my own decision on the claim ie inspect pump for being run dry and burnt out etc and if I was happy that it was a pump failure would see the customer right and take up the issue with my supplier. It's called P R for at the end of the day my view is the customer spent their money with me and therefore should not be up to them to have to fight with my supplier . This may not help you legally but I'm sure it gives you another side of the situation
Good Luck in your efforts to rectify the problem.
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Follow Up By: dazza62 - Thursday, Feb 03, 2011 at 22:17
Thursday, Feb 03, 2011 at 22:17
Thanks. I certainly agree that Customer Service is the key and given the amount that I have spent at this trader and am planning to spend I was a bit taken back by the response today.
Money is not the issue but more so the principle.
The only way it could be burnt out is if the supplied gauge is faulty as I have never fully emptied the tank.
Would love to have the time to pull the pump out before taking it back just to
check but then again this will probably void any warranty.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Feb 03, 2011 at 22:17
Thursday, Feb 03, 2011 at 22:17
ABNI, the buyer has no relationship with the pump manufacturer, only with the tank supplier / fitter. If the pump has broken and its within the warranty period then the fitter installer has to make it right, thats the law as far as I know it. It has nothing to do with the supplier of the punp.
Your Business approach is excellent! Would love to be doing business with you, look after your customers and they will look after you - good stuff
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Thursday, Feb 03, 2011 at 23:20
Thursday, Feb 03, 2011 at 23:20
Yep its between you and the supplier. Except if its a manufacturers warranty only.
If you buy something in a
shop and its faulty its up to the
shop to arrange to have it fixed.
However I bought a TV in NSW and didnt use it for 4 weeks till I got
home to QLD.
When we set it up the stand was faulty.
I didnt ring the
shop as I really thought 5 hours driving was a bit much to take it back
I rang the makers service centre to be told they didnt want to know as I should have set it up when I got it and taken it back to the
shop within14 days.
I said fine but what would I do if I bought it for a Xmas present for family and didnt open it till then. Too bad she said, the phone answerer.
So I asked to speak to her boss and two weeks later the TV was fixed for free and she wont tell anyone that again. LOL
Keep at them Dont let them get you down.
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Follow Up By: River Swaggie - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 05:38
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 05:38
Yeah it can be put another way...Ford/Holden lets say use parts from other manufacturers like Bosch etc...While your vehicle is still under warranty i cant see them saying mate you hav to take it up with them,while its still under warranty,Ive had recalled Vehicles before and it hasnt cost a dime...There must be a Blanket cover....
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 10:58
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 10:58
Swaggie,
Your assumptions make sense to me but let me tell you this is not the case all the time in real life.
My brand new Nissan had turbo and intercooler upgrades done to it before I picked the vehicle up. I purchased these upgrades through the dealer but I was
well aware they were not the company doing the upgrades. Verbally everything that was being done had the original Nissan warranty of 3yr 100 000km warranty. Guess what... I had problems and for years I fought both the supplier and dealer and got nothing but heartache and angst with both dealer and modifier blaming each other for the problems. Even 3 grand at a solicitor could not get a satisfactory resolution and I then decided I just had to live with the fact that I was on my own. Lesson learned was "When is a warranty not a warranty?" WHEN IT IS WRITTEN BY NISSAN!!!!!!
Dazza, my experience leads me to "save the heartache", fix it yourself and tell everyone about the mongrel company and crap after sales service you received. I know of at least 3 people who have bought new vehicles from other manufacturers due to stories like mine about Nissan, this undoubtedly has cost Nissan many hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years I have been a loyal hater of their lack of customer care.
Cheers, Trevor.
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Reply By: Flash32 - Thursday, Feb 03, 2011 at 22:01
Thursday, Feb 03, 2011 at 22:01
Dazza
It may be worth a look at the new consumer laws that came into effect on Jan 1st 2011.
The guy that fitted the unit has to be very careful what was said and what you expect from the unit. It appears that it is now a new ball game and the consumer holds all the aces
RodnEls
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Reply By: SDG - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 00:01
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 00:01
I bought a new part for my computer. Turns out my computer would not accept part. Took it back to sop and got a refund, minus a 10% fee as now it is classified as used.
Couple of years ago i bought a mp3 player. I requested one that I could change the battery in as I wanted it to use on the bike, and had no way to recharge the ones with an internal battery. Got it
home and it was one that needed to be charged by computer. Took it back to the
shop, and they refused to take it back as the package had been opened and they would not be able to reseal it to resell.
My sister had a car battery with 12 months warranty. 10months later the battery was buggered. Took it back to battery joint where it was bought. They were happy to exchange it, but was only going to give the remainding 2months as warrenty.
Saw fair trading for each of these. There was nothing they could do.
Warranty seems to mean nothing with certain products.
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Follow Up By: badman - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 12:30
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 12:30
The first item is a restock fee, and not uncommon. Where you bought it could not be responsible for it not working in your computer.
On the second item, it sounds like they were responsible, as you asked for something specific and the item did not match. Escalation would have solved that one, either through their management or fair trading.
The Third item, of course, you bought the battery with 12months warranty, it
broke and was replaced under warranty. This doesn't mean you get another 12months warranty. You've only paid for the original warranty period.
just my 2c
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Follow Up By: SDG - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 13:22
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 13:22
Badman.
Yes I have since found out about tht restock fee. Never seen it before. Appears to be the only store here that does it as no body I have spoken to has ever heard of it before.
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Follow Up By: kev.h - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 13:57
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 13:57
Under consumer law in most states if you specified replacable battery the item you were supplied was not suitable for the purpose therefore they have no option but to replace it with an item suitable for the purpose specified or refund
If you took it further you would have won they do not have a case based on the package being open - "you sought expert advise from the retailer" ie. Asked for a specific item -its not your fault and you could not be reasonably expected to know you were given the wrong item without opening the box
remember that statement "you sought expert advise from the retailer" because that is your out when they give you the wrong item.
Also if it does not work it is not broken "that item is not suitable for the purpose for which it is designed becaused it failed to perform in the way you would reasonably expect"
Kev
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 23:26
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 23:26
Precisely Kev. And it's always useful to ask (preferably in front of a witness) if they will exchange/refund the item if it doesn't fit/suit. No guarantee, but when you take the item back to the store you can confidently advise them that you asked and they agreed prior to your purchase. The law doesn't require that you ask though - if they tell you something is suitable and it isn't (provided you are both clear about the requirement/item) then the seller is required to replace or refund. Under those circumstances they cannot charge you a 'restocking fee'. Some online stores in particular advise you to select carefully, that it is YOUR responsibility to buy the correct item, and that they may refund/exchange less a fee. That would be fair.
Sorry Dazza, don't know who is responsible for your warranty but state and fed govt (eg ACCC) websites have lots of FAQS that cover the basics. There's a lot of ignorance and
bluff from sellers (and consumers in some circumstances) so you are wise to seek more info. Good luck.
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Reply By: Member No 1- Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 08:40
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 08:40
what if.....you somehow had put some sand in the long range tank and that siezed the motor..is it warranty...No!
this is why they ask for you to pay for new one and then have a credit given once its proven to be a manufacturing fault within their time frames.
I am not saying that you put sand in the tank , but rather showing that this is but just one reason why the pump may have failed would not be covered by warranty
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 08:45
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 08:45
therefore the fitter does not have to give warranty till its proven its a warranty problem...he sends it back to the manufacturer for assessment
He'd be silly to let you walk out the door without payment if it wasnt a true warranty problem...this is why they ask for the $$$ first and then you get a credit
happens all the time in my industry when I replace parts
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Follow Up By: Trevor R (QLD) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 11:08
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 11:08
I understand your reasoning but if this is happening in a big city why can't the whole vehicle be left for a day or two while the pump is removed, examined and determined if it is warranty or not? Basically the service being offered is crap in my opinion and I for one would like to know the supplier to keep away from. I am sure there is heaps of other forumites here that would also have similar view to me. It is a little bit harder to take this stance if it takes 7 days or more to get the pump to the big smoke for inspection but surely the same offer could be made and the customer then decides if he/she would like to leave the vehicle for the required length of time.
Trevor.
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Reply By: Shaker - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 09:44
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 09:44
How long was the pump warranty, I would have expected 12 months?
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Reply By: spudseamus - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 12:39
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 12:39
My sister had a car battery with 12 months warranty. 10months later the battery was buggered. Took it back to battery joint where it was bought. They were happy to exchange it, but was only going to give the remaining 2months as warranty.
and the problem is??? the battery has been replaced as it was stated in the warranty!! the original battery failed and was replaced but the warranty still dates from the day of purchase.
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Follow Up By: SDG - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 13:17
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 13:17
Was just commenting that all products I have had in the past that went faulty before the warranty expired was either repaired or replaced. (yes I know a
battery can not be repaired). In the case of replacement I have always had Warrnty restart from the swap over. My sisters
battery was the first that I had experience with that type of warranty.
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Follow Up By: kev.h - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 14:02
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 14:02
Thats the standard under consumer law you only get the original warranty however if the retailer wishes to give you the full warranty on the new one thats up to him and is good customer service but certainly not required under the law
Kev
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Reply By: Ruffy-Dan - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 12:45
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 12:45
I can see your point entirely, but also as an owner of a business in the industry i can see there point also.
The end seller DOES NOT have to warrant a product they have re-sold. Bunnings will have YOU as the consumer return most products you purchase from them back to the manufacturer at your own accord. Of course small business would not get away with this practice.
As a small business you are completely at the mercy of a supplier in regards to warranty.
Neither the retailer nor the supplier know the circumstances that caused the failure and naturally would not extend a warranty to you unless they did. What if you had a dose of water in your fuel? etc, etc...
Personally in my own business i would carry out an initial inspection and if there was any uncertainty i would be explaining the situation to the customer that upon inspection if the faulty part was due to and outside cause then they may be held liable for the replacement, but until that fact is established i think it is unfair to charge to customer.
I think it's unfair to assume this is a scape-goat for the retailer.
DAN
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Follow Up By: Member No 1- Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 13:47
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 13:47
" but until that fact is established i think it is unfair to charge to customer." what!, do you or would you expect the end user to return and cough up the money?....hahahaha...you have a high expectation of most then if you do...
or,
he could be on his way round the world trip or even on his way to heaven...the poor supplier is then out of pocket if its not a genuine warranty claim.
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Reply By: farouk - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 14:13
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 14:13
An excellent article by a respected organisation which should be read by everybody
Have inserted the first paragragh then the web address for the whole article.
Warranties explained - what you need to know before you buy
For any product you purchase, the law provides for comprehensive warranty protection. For goods, the retailer is obliged to repair, replace or refund the faulty goods.
For services, the retailer is obliged to redo the service or pay for the costs of having the service supplied again. These warranties are often known as statutory or implied warranties. Read on for more details on the protection for products you purchase. Knowing your true warranty rights will help you then better decide whether, for example, you need to spend extra money buying an extended warranty.
http://www.choice.com.au/consumer-action/money-and-rights/warranties/warranty-rights-and-wrongs/page/warranties%20explained.aspx
Farouk
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 14:40
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 14:40
Try this link
warranty rights
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Follow Up By: farouk - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 16:32
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 16:32
Thanks for that Graham, wish I knew how to do it ie putting the address into a link of only 1 or 2 words
Farouk
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 18:04
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 18:04
Its easy Open the page that you want to link to.
Highlight the URL and r/click it and go copy
Open the" insert link" at the bottom of this box.
When it opens paste the url you clicked on into it by going r/clik in the top line and "paste"
Put a heading in the second line and click 'Insert".
Before you start in the reply box(this one) hit return twice to get your cursor down to where there is a space for the link to be inserted.
cheers
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Follow Up By: farouk - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 20:28
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 20:28
Thanks heaps Graham, really appreciate that.I am sure there will be lot's of members that will appreciate you puttting this info up here as well.
Regards
Farouk
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Reply By: Member - Mawso (WA) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 14:24
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 14:24
When is a Warranty not a Warranty?
When you buy a Jeep!
Steve M.
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 14:34
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 14:34
Or a Nissan
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Reply By: Alan S (WA) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 14:40
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 14:40
Dazza
I am no lawyer however I buy major capital equipment and the issue of warranties as part of the sale takes up a lot of my time.
Firstly it appears that it is now 18mths after the purchase. My understanding the normal obligation is 12 mths unless stated otherwise, and the fault/issues need to be reported within this time.
Secondly, although even as reseller the supplier appears to have an obligation, he didn't sell you a Pump. He actually sold you a long range tank which included a Pump that he has selected and specified as being fit for the intended purpose of his long range tank product.
He doesn't manufacture the Item concerned and although you may have a claim against him for the faulty item, he may also have a claim against his supplier. If his supplier won't honour his claim then he will need to out of his own pocket cover yours.
There is also the time taken to obtain a replacement, fitting etc. His requirement may also be based on trying to get you going again as soon as possible.
My advise would be you do what you have to do to not only get a satisfactory outcome for yourself, but also assist the supplier in providing the outcome BUT also that he can get a good outcome for himself.
I know a lot of people here demand good service from a supplier, and rate a supplier based on their service, but I like to think that we also need to be good customers. I have a core of personal and business suppliers that consider me a good customer and want to deal with me. It works both ways.
jusrt my 2c worth.
Alan
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 16:43
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 16:43
I would be surprised if the pump had more than 12 months warranty!
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Reply By: kevmac....(WA) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 18:34
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 18:34
Had a similar problem some years back with an alleged brand new tyre where the tread lifted but tyre stayed inflated. They wanted to keep tyre for testing and our insistentence said they could only test it with a representative of mine in attendance. asd soon as i said that they changed tune and gave new tyre without question.........................bit different when have to send away, coz that is oldest ttrick in the book regading warranty work. These days if warranty cant be done locally we dont buy it ! Usually !
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Follow Up By: kevmac....(WA) - Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 18:37
Friday, Feb 04, 2011 at 18:37
and that was with tyre manufacturer after dealer refused to cover i forgot to add
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Reply By: dazza62 - Wednesday, Feb 09, 2011 at 22:27
Wednesday, Feb 09, 2011 at 22:27
Thank you for all of the
feedback and thoughts.
I was hoping to have an outcome that I could post by now however I am still waiting for a phone call from the installer to advise that the part has arrived and a follow up to my query as to why I should be paying. Thats over a week. Perhaps their phone lines are down with all the fires and floods we have been experiencing around this wonderful country. Wasn't aware that Geelong had experienced either - but then I'm only an existing customer not a potential one.
I searched the manufacturers website for warranty times but they only state that they guarantee their products. No time frame however I would expect a pump to last more than 18 months.
A couple of comments if I may -
(i) Never had sand in my fuel tanks nor been close, therefore unlikely cause.
(ii) Vehicle is used for business purposes so unable to leave it for any length of time.
(iii) Once pump is removed and sent back I have no control over it and any evidence is out of my control. Any potential litagation is lost.
(iv) I can't imagine the pump being that expensive and would be happy to pay for it but not keen on paying for labour pending an outcome. Still waiting on a call to confirm price and thats over a week ago.
Thankfully I am not heading away now until mid March so can happily get around without a long range tank for a bit longer whilst the supplier finds the time to call.
Thank you again for your comments - and no, at this stage I will not name the Companies involved however if nothing happens soon I will have no hesitation.
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