Generator Power Feedback

Submitted: Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 09:01

ThreadID: 84126 Views:3749 Replies:1 FollowUps:5

This Thread has been Archived

Generator Power

The generator, which was discovered by Michael Faraday, is an ingenious device that converts mechanical energy into electrical energy.

Wavemechanic

"The generator, which was discovered by Michael Faraday..."
Sorry to be pedantic, but Mr. Faraday didn't discover the generator, he discovered electromagnetic induction. Using the principles of electromagnetic induction, he invented the electric dynamo, the ancestor of modern power generators. Discovery is one thing, invention another.

Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator Share

Reply By: oldtrack123 - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 10:57

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 10:57

Hi Wavemechanic

While your point may be considered pedantic there are far more serious errors in the section on safety
quote" Safety with Generators
Electrocution
- ELCB or Resisdual Current Device - RCD) to cut off power quickly if someone touches the 240 volt while earthed - but many Generators do NOT have them. Safety Switches will only protect against electrocution to earth if you connect the Earth Terminal on the Generator to an earthing rod that has a good earth connection - a rod into dry sand is useless. TIP Always use a Safety Switch at the Generator if one isn’t built in - it's very cheap protection against a fatality."endquote

[a]an earth stake is not needed or required with portable generators [BY AUS
STANDARDS]
[b]an earth stake connected to the earthing terminal will not make a plug in RCD operational
[c]even if the portable generator has an inbuilt RCD[very few do] ,"AN EARTH STAKE IS NEITHER REQUIRED OR RECOMMENDED"[by Aus Standards ] for THAT RCD to operate.

Peter

AnswerID: 444280

Follow Up By: Dave JK - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 11:11

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 11:11

This is because RCDs use the core balance system. That is what goes out the active must comeback in the neutral. If someone suffers a electric shock some current but not all flows through them to the mass of earth. Hence there is less current flowing back in the neutral than flowing out of the active so the RCD trips.

FollowupID: 716394

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 16:53

Saturday, Feb 05, 2011 at 16:53

Hi Dave
Sorry, while that is correct for mains power, it is not for portable generators as used by RVers.
The mass of earth does not come into the picture ,that' why "an earth stake is neither required or recommended"

Peter

FollowupID: 716450

Follow Up By: Dave JK - Wednesday, Feb 09, 2011 at 17:36

Wednesday, Feb 09, 2011 at 17:36

Peter ,

I think you are misunderstanding my explanation. It is because portable generators use core balance RCDs, and NOT shunt trip ELCBs, that on generators "an earth stake is neither required or recommended" .

As the function of core balance negates the requirement of a return path that earthstake provides.

FollowupID: 716920

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Wednesday, Feb 09, 2011 at 20:43

Wednesday, Feb 09, 2011 at 20:43

Hi Dave

Sorry, but I do not understand what you are trying to say.

Your statement seems to contradict it's self

Core balance RCDs are the approved type FOR fitting to generators in As
Mains supply also use core balance RCDs

The RCDs fitted to vans .motor homes etc are the core balance type.
RCDs do not need to have a connection to the mass of earth to operate,in the portable situation"an earth is neither required or recommended" by Aus Standards

The frame of the van etc is the effective earth
The system relies on the wiring earth between generator OR inverter & the load [a frame to neutral earthing system in simple words]
It is simply because the power from the generator IS NOT M.E.N.ed, that an earth stake is not required & it is not desirable to make a small portable generator supply M.E.N
In fact actively discouraged by all Ausstate regulations.

we are not talking about generators permanently hard wired

Peter

FollowupID: 716957

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Wednesday, Feb 09, 2011 at 20:54

Wednesday, Feb 09, 2011 at 20:54

Hi Dave
A follow up as I cannot edit
The terms ELCB , Core balance circuit breakers,RCD & safety switch ALL refer to the same type of protection IN AUS.
All depend on an out of balance current between active & neutral for operation.

A new product [URCD by PROTEX] just coming on to the market gives protection with non EN fully isolated supplies[ genny or inverter ] as well as standard RCD protection.

Peter

FollowupID: 716961