Are You Operating Your Tyres Beyond Their Design Limits?

Submitted: Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 16:21
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To my surprise I found that I had been operating my existing tyres well beyond their design limits and I am lucky that I was not stranded on the Canning Stock Route with two de-laminated rear tyres.

I recently had to decide to either replace, or upgrade the worn 265/75R16D (‘D’ = 8 ply rating) 4WD tyres on my Landcruiser 100 series (I changed the original 17 inch alloy rims for 16 inch steel rims). I had not been all that happy with these tyres on the rear of my vehicle as they got very hot when deflated to the pressures needed for sand or gravel road driving. To be fair, I must confess that I have dual wheel carriers on the rear tow bar, a long range fuel tank and Black Widow drawers all of which put a very heavy load on the rear end even before I pack for the trip and attach the Ultimate Camping Trailer. I weighed the vehicle on a public weigh bridge and was surprised at it tipping the scales at 3570 kg without the long range tank filled and carrying very little load (Ultimate Camping Trailer not connected).

Whilst attending a sand driving course, a well respected 4WD driving instructor told me that he thought that my existing tyres were bulging too much at the pressures needed for sand driving and suggested that I should change the existing 265/75R16D tyres to the larger 285/75R16D tyres. I bounced this idea off three different 4WD tyre supplier ‘experts’ who disagreed and told me that the 265/75R16E (‘E’ = 10 ply rating) had a higher maximum load rating than the 285/75R16D and that I should use those; I pointed out that the 265’E maximum load rating was at 80psi and the 285’D maximum load rating was at 65 psi, and further that I never intended to drive off-road with either 80 or 65 psi in my tyres. When I asked about load ratings for their tyres at realistic off-road tyre pressures such as 20psi, 30psi, 40psi and so on, none could provide me with the required information, so I decided to research the problem myself.

I spent about 12 days searching the internet and consolidating material to fully understand the issues. There is too much information to post on this site so I have posted it on my own website in bite size pieces. http://www.netspeed.com.au/rob.dobson/

It contains information on:
• Tyre load vs inflation pressure vs speed
• How much can load be increased if speed is reduced?
• At what temperature do tyres become permanently damaged?
• How long can you keep tyres before they deteriorate?
• And lots more including links to other useful websites.

I hope you find it useful.
If you relax at a faster pace you can get more relaxation in for a given time.
Regards Rob

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Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 16:47

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 16:47
You are probably also exceeding the rear axle limit by a considerable margin

Legal weights for a 100ser 1HD-FTE auto are

GVM 3260kg including any ball weight.

Axle weights

Front 1630kg

Rear 1950kg

By the time you fill the tank and hook the trailer up you are about 500kg OVERWEIGHT

No wonder the tyres are bulging.

Also brings insurance into it if you have an accident and overloading is attributed to the cause, you may not be covered.

Just my take on things

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Follow Up By: Member - Rob D (NSW) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 17:21

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 17:21
The GVM on the label is for the vehicle out of the showroom. Upgrading the suspension, tyres etc will increase the GVM. Reputable 4WD workshops will have the GVM upgrade information for their suspension upgrades.
I have a friend who has an engineers certified 500kg GVM upgrade for his 100 series.
If you relax at a faster pace you can get more relaxation in for a given time.
Regards Rob

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Follow Up By: Axle - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 17:25

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 17:25
Hi Graham, 1630kg + 1950= 3580kg

GVM= 3260kg including ball weight.


Me no understand...lol

If this is legal weights for 100s then something is screwey.


please put me on the right track!!...:)))))))

Cheers Axle.



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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 17:28

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 17:28
As you dont say if yours has been done I posted on the presumption it hasnt.


At the weight you got when you weighed it, presumably when loaded and trailer attached it would appear to exceed your friends limit as well.

Mick O has had one done and it involved a lot more than just tyres and springs.

cheers


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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 17:42

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 17:42
I read it out of the Handbook. It is explained in the pic

Here is a scan of the handbook page so will let you interpret it as you see fit

Image Could Not Be Found
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Follow Up By: Ozhumvee - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:23

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:23
Axle

The GVM of the vehicle is rarely as high as the sum of the axle load capacities, why I don't know but "usually" the combined load capacities is the maximum that you can get the GVM upgraded to without upgrading the actual axle housings themselves.
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:31

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:31
Same with vans a close coupled load sharing suspension can be loaded to 100%

of group axle rating but an independent non load sharing like my Coromal has a

group axle rating 120% of allowable load ..

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Follow Up By: Axle - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:37

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:37
Thanks!! Peter. for clearing that up,


Graham! will have to get a new pair of specs before reading that lot



Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:49

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:49
Save the pic to your computer and use irfanview to enlarge it Easy to read then


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Reply By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 17:08

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 17:08
Hi Rob, I have just had a quick read of your website and find it most interesting. It will take much more time to fully absorb and assess how it applies to my vehicle and tyres. However I am sure it is a valuable treatise and I congratulate and thank you for offering it to us.

I sincerely hope that any criticism of the document is of a constructive nature and only offered after thorough consideration of the data and conclusions.

Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Robin Miller - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 19:17

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 19:17
Well I don't quite agree Rob - I would have gone for the E range 265 over the D range 285

Your conclusion looks valid because you include fixed parameters which make it so.

The summation of this dicussion is that skinner tyres should have a corresponding increase in pressure (and hence must be rated so) - this has always been the case.

So you can't compare the 2 at the same pressure - rather they should be compared at a constant % of their max rating.

Apart from this , the 265 have more puncture resistance and a narrower width which gives less chance of a hit anyway.



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Follow Up By: Member - Rob D (NSW) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 20:23

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 20:23
Driving in soft sand requires you to have inflation pressures of 15 to 25 psi. I drove the Canning Stock Route with 18psi in the front and 20psi in the rear. Any higher pressures than this would caused problems on the very many sand dunes. There were quite a few other vehicles getting bogged on the sand dunes.
If I had the E range 265 I still would have to have used the same pressures. The load rating of the E range tyre at any pressures below 65psi is exactly the same as the load rating of the D range tyre.
I know others who have driven the Simpson Dessert with much lower pressures than this.
The real point is that at any given pressure the larger tyre will have the higher load rating.
If you relax at a faster pace you can get more relaxation in for a given time.
Regards Rob

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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 21:05

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 21:05
I understand your thinking Rob - but driving in sand doesn't require 15 to 25 psi .

I agree with your observation but I think thats having a conclusion - then working to prove it.

I think its better to work from the first principles need to drive in sand with a certain downforce per unit area , which will generally end up with your 15-25psi - but may be different as you stray further from the 265 or 285 size tyres.
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Reply By: Mick O - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 19:33

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 19:33
Rob,

your research would be really useful in a blog or as an addition in the articles section. How about a bit of cut and paste so all your hard work doesn’t get lost in the archives.

Great stuff and thanks for all your effort.

Mick
''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

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Follow Up By: Member - Rob D (NSW) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 20:32

Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 20:32
Hi Mick,

I am new to the operation of this website. This was my first Forum post. I am not sure what you would like me to do.

'A verbal message is not worth the paper it is written on'
If you relax at a faster pace you can get more relaxation in for a given time.
Regards Rob

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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 08:05

Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 08:05
Rob,

Can we talk at Tuesday's club meeting? - I'd like to print this material in Southern Trails, but also it would be a valuable blog on this site. Having a blog here that we can point to saves a lot of repetitive replies to questions.

Cheers

John
J and V
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Follow Up By: Mick O - Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 13:41

Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 13:41
Thanks John,

I was about to type up a reply to Rob but will leave it in your capable hands if that's OK.

Cheers Mick

''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

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