What is the problem with V8 landcruisers
Submitted: Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 17:22
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dindy
Hi have been sneaking around this site and other similar sites for quite some time. Whenever someone asks for an opinion on which 4by they should buy everyone is keen to give their opinion. This is great and should not change. A recent post is a case in point.
What I find curious is that almost invariably the advise is always get a diesel don't get petrol and avoid v8's like the plague. Why the hell not?
I have had 4x4's for over 30 years been almost
all places that you can get with a 4x4 and they have all been petrol! Yes they use a bit more full but good trip planning including extra fuel is all that is needed. I have driven all sorts of diesel vehicles, nissan, toyota izuzu ford and american types in various employment situations, all slugs, with the exception of modern turbo efi models.
The advantage of petrol engines over diesel, lower maintenance costs, lower repair costs, better power range, not afraid of water and guess what you can get petrol almost any where cheaper than diesel.
I believe that there is an element of diesel snobbery about whereby most diesel owners look down their noses at the owners of petrol powered vehicles believing that the vehicles they drive are not "fair dinkum" off roaders.
Just for the record I have a 1994 4.5 80 series with 440,000k's on the clock which I have owned for some 7 years and its been "every where" its still a great vehicle. I also have a V8 100 series cruiser. I have been a few
places in this vehicle, what a beast, power everywhere and driven carefully uses no more fuel that the 80.
So for me Its petrol power all the way!
Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 17:48
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 17:48
My reason for having a diesel is that I get a better fuel consumption when towing than does a petrol.
Worst day I have had is just over 4kpl into a screaming head wind.
A friend had the same model but a petrol and got as little as 3kpl without the head wind.
Also the resale value of a 100ser TD is far better than the petrol.
I intend selling
mine in about 5 months with about 170,00k on it all tricked out,
wonder what that is worth in comparison to a petrol. A fair bit more I would hope.
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Reply By: Hairs & Fysh - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:01
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:01
Mate, Seriously I lost a 20 year friendship over a very good mate selling his 1HD-t 93 80 series and buying a V8 petrol 100,
How the hell could he do that? I've got no idea what came over him.
Maybe, he'll see the error of his ways and upgrade to another 80 one day.
Honestly I've got no Idea, I'm happy with my 1HD-t 9! model, wouldn't swap it for quids. 10kpl.
I've borrowed a 4.5 80 to tow a horse float before i bought my diesel and it was thirsty as. And as Graham said the diesels hold their value heaps better.
She just needs better boots a few more bits and I'll keep her for few years yet.
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Reply By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:05
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:05
Just not my experience. I drive petrol and diesel vehicles. Give me diesel any time in the bush. Not sure where you are buying fuel but around our way, diesel now cheaper than petrol. I find the considerably longer range of diesel to be a big plus. Carrying diesel in jerries is far safer than carrying petrol. The extra compression on diesel mors is great for slow speed work such as when lugging up and down sandhills. Much less to go wrong with diesel engines in the bush (no points/sparklugs.) Better torque for heavy towing/load lugging in difficult terrain. Can't say I have noticed appreciable difference in service costs. Generally the diesel has all the advantages in wet conditions, except if you get water into the breather. A
snorkel fixes that issue.
Diesels engines tend to last considerably longer. I don't think ther is any snobbery, just horses for courses. In ther bush, that lwo down torque rather than outright speed is what I want.
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Follow Up By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:12
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:12
mmmmmm there are a lot more parts in a diesel that simply can not be fixed out bush, points have been long gone and plugs can last up to 50,000klms, probally more i dont know, i would rather pay for 6 plugs than 6 injectors ...
Electricials are just as complicated in diesels these days as petrols and both have computers ..
But .... horses for courses as you say,
Cheers
Joe
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Follow Up By: Madfisher - Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 13:28
Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 13:28
I replaced the platium Plugs in my Jack at 130000ks.
We have over 130 vehicles in our fleet at work and generally have more issues with diesels then petrol. Actually I can only remember two issues with petrol motors. The amount of sensors and stress in a modern high power diesel will mean they will rarely last more then 300000ks. Admitly a lot of our diesels do work in a hard enviroment.
Cheers Pete
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Reply By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:05
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:05
i do tend to agree with the "diesel" snobbery, it is a bit like the grossly expensive camper trailer club, they do cost more to buy and yep you do get better re sale but also maintenance costs and repairs are excessive for a diesel ......
It has it's advantage in being a "safer" fuel to transport if you have to carry jerries and safer for "bush repairs" and it also can be a bit easer to get in remote
places, why it costs more these days has me beat, it should not as it was the cheaper fuel at one point ....
It can be seen in the boating world, petrol motors are cheaper and getting pretty damm good these days but as you go up in price of a boat the motor goes inside and then is a diesel and again it is deemed safer ....
It is something that will always be talked about and if we did not argue as to how good it is seen by each other then we would not have very interesting forums like this one eh .....
Did you know you can buy a diesel outboard, just thought i would throw that in..
Cheers
Joe
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:22
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:22
Yeah, I'm showing my age. You are right of course about the points. Petrol vehicles however now also run on injectores as part of their "no points" technology.
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Follow Up By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:30
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:30
yeh but even they are very cheap and you dont have the injector pump ......
I have been looking for a replacement for my 1HZ and done HEAPS of reading and still dont know what way to go, i am very seriousally thinking about a V8 petrol, something out of the later injected units, i can get in "beefed" up and a lot of gear on it for still under $10,000 .......
Anyway fishin is on tv so gotta stop dreamin
Cheers
Joe
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Follow Up By: Harry and Ann (WA) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 19:34
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 19:34
I asked the question about the price of petrol being cheaper than diesel and was told it is because their is no lead in it now.??????
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 20:28
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 20:28
I don't think it has anything to do with lead. In most parts of the worls, diesel has always been cheaper than petrol. It should be, it is cracked off at a lower level than petrol in the distillation process where fuel is produced from crude oil.. The price of diesel in OZ always seemed out of wack and in the past was explained as economy of scale here due to higher petrol demand. If this is so, it appeares that increasing demand for diesel has brought our prices back to relativity with the rest iof the world.
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Reply By: 3gobush - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:13
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:13
There is nothing wrong with a V8 Diesel cruiser, but I wouldn't give you 2 bob for a V8 petrol.
The Diesel has more than enough grunt, a heaps more Torque, and the engine will last considerably longer than a petrol.
As for water Crossings would you take your car through 1.1 metres of water, without any preparation, eg: tarp etc ? I do regularly.
Turbo Diesels have more than enough grunt to keep up with petrol vehicles be it any brand, trust me I am no snob either, I couldn't give a rats if you have a Petrol or Diesel, if you are happy that a Petrol floats your boat then good luck to you.
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Follow Up By: dindy - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 19:03
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 19:03
have you ever driven a V8 petrol L/cruiser if not borrow one from a friend or a car yard and go for a burl. If you have driven one whats your objection? Its all very good to say "I wouldn't give two bob for one" lets us know why!
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Follow Up By: 3gobush - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 19:47
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 19:47
Hey dindy I thought I did, any way were I come from you we haven't see a petrol 4WD, unless it is the occasional tourist that has one.
I live in West Arnhemland petrol vehicle are fround upon anyway, although even know we have Opal fuel I don't think that ratio will change, you see diesel vehicle just work up here.
Any way you love your car and that's all that matters to you, my car does what I need it to do and that's what matters to me.
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Reply By: Member - Phil B (WA) - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:44
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:44
Hi all,
Isn't this the same argument as Waeco v Engel, Coopers v BFG or Toyo v N'san.
Rather than get into the
mine is better than yours discussion, I'll put forward a few points.
What do the dealers sell more of - diesels or petrols? Why?
What do mining companies mainly use/buy diesels or petrols? Then ask yourself why they buy what they buy?
What motor type suits one doesn’t suit another. When one says I've been everywhere & to most remote
places in my diesel / petrol may not rate as everywhere or remote with another person's travel experience.
Its horses for courses that why vehicle manufacturers make both. If they didn’t sell they wouldn’t make them.
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Follow Up By: The_Chad - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 21:38
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 21:38
Mining company issue is moot point, the heavy equipment (trucks/dozers/graders etc) they have on site use diesel, so makes sense to have a common fuel for those and light vehicles.
Also one mining site I worked at restricted petrol coming on site for 'safety reasons', could only be brought on site for specific purposes and with protocols to minimise risk. And basically the reason it would come on to site was to start fires easily for fire fighting training... And even then usually made do with diesel.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 20:24
Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 20:24
Mining companies get their diesel for at least 38 cents cheaper per litre as do all primary industries. That is why they use diesel, as
well as the fuel commonality
and it is only since GST has been in the rebate has been extended to petrol as
well, for primary industries and certain heavy vehicle road users.
Please note that the rebate was only available for off road use but has been extended to on road use for certain users and industries.
Cheers, Bruce.
| At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.Lifetime Member My Profile Send Message |
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:45
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:45
Well we certainly analysed the market in detail for our new car requirements and the petrol patrol 4800 one out easily when al was considered however the diesel 200 series equalled it on overall performance and I would be proud to own one.
But with 2 equal cars , 1 $50,000 and the other $85,000 ,
well its no choice really.
This makes 6 times now we have done this and come out with a petrol 4wd car.
Todays diesels are just to high strung , suspectible to water , bad fuel , expensive parts , overly complex, noisy and often smoke.
For the above you do get about a 1/3rd more range , but really what does that matter if you can already drive tracks like the Canning with your petrol car.
Over Xmas I had a nearby camper telling me about how good his diesel was now that it had its fuel pump was fixed.
He was so happy , after getting $5000 quotes when he found someine who fixed it for , I think $1500.
I walked over to my new Patrol and pulled out the spare fuel pump everyone should always carry -
mine was still marked - $75.
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Follow Up By: Shaver - Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 08:59
Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 08:59
For once I agree with you Robin ! (200 Petrol owner, that doesn't use oil). Anyone buying a set of injectors for a 200 Diesel is in for a rude shock pricewise. Having one Turbo long term to overhaul is bad enough without the added expense of two. Yes diesels are good & I have owned a few, but I still get a little p-ssed off when my shirt contacts the back of my garage wall & I get the proverbial black soot over it when I am going out (one day I will clean it).
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Follow Up By: Shaver - Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 09:39
Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 09:39
Forgot to ask you Robin, is it true that the Petrol Patrol only has one fuel tank whereapon the "Grenade" has a Sub ?
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 11:06
Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 11:06
Thats true Shaver , the car that needs it most had its sub removed as part of a cost cutting measure, along with several ohter "features".
The plus side though is that there's an export standard replacement sub-tank made locally that holds 75lt instead of the original 36lt and fits in better.
I factored this into purchase price.
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Follow Up By: Shaver - Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 13:32
Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 13:32
Robin,
You wouldn't by any chance know whether they make a sub tank for a 200 Sahara Diesel. A Mate needs one that doesn't require the spare to be moved to a rear rack.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 13:44
Monday, Feb 07, 2011 at 13:44
No I don't know about that but the company that makes export tanks is LRA in
Lilydale 9739-5667 , worth a call , they do lots of tanks for Patrols in middle east etc.
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Reply By: Wilko - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:52
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:52
Hi Dindy,
I'm a diesel fan mainly for there fording ability (although this advantage is waning with modern diesel, I'd hate to dunk all those electrics in brown or salt water).
Did I read correct that you said that petrols are not afraid of water?
Cheers Wilko
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Reply By: Member - Michael and Chris (QL - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:58
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 18:58
Dindy, could you tell me where I could buy a petrol engine for my trucks. The lead trailer could be a fuel tanker and the other trailers could carry the freight, engine may be cheaper but in the end false economy.
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Follow Up By: dindy - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 19:10
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 19:10
By trucks I assume that you are talking heavy vehicle haulage etc, granted huge diesels designed for that purpose are the thing no argument. My point was in relation to common everyman recreational 4x4's and the perceived advantage of diesel engines as opposed to petrol power.
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Follow Up By: mike39 - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 19:45
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 19:45
Michael.
I was going to comment earlier re my experience from the late '50/60's logging trucks.
The old Inters., Diamond T, Reo, White etc. with the old petrol motors were a nightmare with burnt valves, overheating, fuel use etc. until the diesel Macks, Mann etc., Perkins/Cummins conversions came along.
Always gonna be horses for courses,
But most courses suit diesel.
mike
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Follow Up By: mike39 - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 19:51
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 19:51
Dindy.
Mate of
mine has a petrol 60 series Toyota wagon which now has over 500k.km. on the clock.
The engine (untouched except for normal maint.) runs like a clock.
(but we wont mention the gearbox howl)
He lives and works in the bush, would not swap it for anything.
And thats the course he takes!
mike
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Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 20:08
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 20:08
"My point was in relation to common everyman recreational 4x4's and the perceived advantage of diesel engines as opposed to petrol power"
My old girl is far from a "common everyman recreational 4x4"
She is my tug for my Work Trailer, Horse Float and yes our Camper, it is 90% of the time towing something.
When I do get the chance to go bush, I find that I am running up the bum of petrol's(manuals) on step declines. Now whether or not that is bad gear selection on their part I don't know, but I love the engine braking of a 4.2 TD.
On inclines, I find a diesel just crawls up most hills with out having to raise a sweet.
I guess Dindy it just like why do you follow a certain V8 supercar team or drink a cerain brand of beer or spirit, You have your reasons for choosing your poison, and you know what? thats cool.
As a whole package, I choose a 4.2T-D 80 Series manual which I'm very happy with.
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Reply By: Isuzumu - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 21:51
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 21:51
I can not even agree, my Isuzu MU of my vintage only had a diesel, but then again Isuzu did and still has perfected the diesel motor hey
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Follow Up By: Isuzumu - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 21:53
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 21:53
should be "argue" not agree to much good wine tonight hahaha
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Reply By: Dust-Devil - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 22:19
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 22:19
What is the problem with V8 landcruisers (asked Dindy)
As the current owner of (1) 1997 75series 1HZ Troopy, (2) 2005 CRD JEEP and (3) 2010 200series TTD (600 killerwasped) VX Landcruiser - all diesels, I would have to say ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is wrong with them.
And, whats more, neither the JEEP or the 200 have Bullbars on them. If I feel the need for same they will be fitted with a winch in the exact same manner as my aftermarket fitting 'guru/idol' Mr Robin Miller has done to his benzine drinking pootrol.
In regards to fuel consumption, my 200 TTD returns 10.6l per 100Kms between Melbourne/Adelaide/
Alice Springs & return. Likewise elsewhere. 12.5-13.0l city driving depending on how I drive it, and when towing our 2.8t caravan -
well I don't even bother looking, just fuel it, hand over the credit card and make sure I don't look. However, must say that when towing, it goes like an F1.
Again I say, there is nothing wrong with V8 Landcruisers or diesel vehicles.
If you wish to turn the subject onto the pros & cons ECU/ECM of new vehicles
well that is a different story , and a subject I can vent on for hours & hours & hours.
Yep! the JEEP (LOL) during warranty, but it is sensational vehicle these days.
DD
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Follow Up By: Pebble - Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 23:01
Sunday, Feb 06, 2011 at 23:01
Lol, we've had a 75 series, put a Brunswicks Chev in it, then went to an 80 series with a Brunswicks Chev diesel in it. Then a plain old 75 series ute, upgraded that to a 79 Series Turbo Diesel Ute.
Finally something different, we have a 2010 Jeep Wrangler Petrol. (only had a Subaru Forrester and other standard sedans otherwise as 2nd vehicles)l.
I must say for a first petrol we are rather disappointed with the power,
well more so lack of acceleration and generally power for a petrol in regards to the Wrangler. I understand that a diesel will always have more torque so we expected the petrol would have had more of that higher end power. Now if this isn't something that can be fixed through the ECU management I know for a fact that my Husband will want another engine down the track (a v8 petrol?) or go back to diesel? That is if the Wrangler was to become as high on the likability list as his beloved 79 series td ute was. Don't get me wrong "Landcruiser Man" really does think the Jeep is great but I think because of the lack of power he is having doubts about the decision to go for a petrol vehicle this time.
I think there is still a bit of a learning curve to overcome when it comes to offroad fourwheel driving as
well, it's a manual and will require more driver control at the foot.
Anyway if you're talking about petrol vs diesel for economy and fuel price. We considered all that and servicing costs etc, in the end I figured out that you would only really come out in front if you kept the car for like 10 years, now I don't know about others but we've tended to change cars withing the 5yr period for one reason or another, and the $10k saved in the original purchase price pays for either a lot of accessories or a whole lot of petrol in the mean time.
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