HID lights, new problem !

Wow those HID lights sure pack a punch.
I apologise, but I seem to have trouble getting a macro photo shot to focus up properly.

I have re-assessed the gaps that I was so paranoid about last week, and just gone ahead and droppen them in anyway.

So now when I switch them on they fire up real bright !

But if I dim them , a whole new scenario happens, when I go back to "full beam", with the drivine lights.

They may not fire
The left fires only, or the right firesonly, but geberally not the 2 together.

My Relay has 2 power outs, but is only 30 amp, is this the cause ?
Do I run 2 relays, a separate one for each ?
Do I up the relay to 50 amp ?
Cheers
Bucky
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Reply By: Member - John - Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 06:55

Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 06:55
Bucky, 30 amps should be ample for 2 x 50 watt lights.(Pun intended) Does the sides change when you dip and go back to high beam again?

Sounds as if your relay may be faulty, maybe try a new one. Good luck. John
John and Jan

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Follow Up By: Member - Bucky - Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 08:13

Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 08:13
John
They do change ...

Got any Ideas ?

Cheers
Bucky
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Follow Up By: geocacher (djcache) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 09:12

Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 09:12
On your relay terminals is one of the terminals labelled 87 & the one parallel to it labelled 87a?

If so your relay is the wrong type. You need one with 2 x 87 terminals.

There are a few different types and they all look the same.

Some have a single 87 (no centre pin).
Some have two 87 pins to make it easier to wire two outputs like commonly seen in driving light applications.
Some have an 87 & 87a pin so you you can alternate between two devices.

Sounds like you might have the last one.

Dave
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Follow Up By: geocacher (djcache) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 09:13

Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 09:13
Though that wouldn't explain why both work at first if that's what your saying is happening...

Dave
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark E (VIC) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 09:52

Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 09:52
This has happened to me many years ago. Seems I picked up a "change-over relay" instead of normal relay....

CHeers,

Mark
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Follow Up By: Member - Bucky - Friday, Feb 11, 2011 at 05:01

Friday, Feb 11, 2011 at 05:01
Dave

Both relays have 87 *2 terminals

Theer is no 87 a

CHeers
Bucky
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Reply By: Ray - Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 09:13

Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 09:13
You do realise that those globes are illegal. If you get them going I hope that is not too long before you get nicked.
AnswerID: 444897

Follow Up By: Member - Mark E (VIC) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 09:55

Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 09:55
I think yhey're OK in driving lights as you can isolate them from the dip switch, but for normal high beam, yes, I think they're illegal.

Someone else may know the law a little better than me though....

Cheers,

Mark
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:00

Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 10:00
From his last thread he was putting them in Driving lights I think.

Yes they are illegal to retrofit in headlights.

Unless the headlights are self levelling and have auto washers on them.

Even my VW which has manual levelling lights cant have them.

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Follow Up By: Honky - Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:54

Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 11:54
My understanding is they are not allowed in low beam.
High beam only is not an issue.

Honky
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Follow Up By: Muntoo - Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 12:10

Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 12:10
Yeah jumped the gun a bit there mate. There for driving lights not headlights.

Bucky , i think you could find the problem is with your ballasts mate. A poor ignitor will do this and its a common problem with some HID kits.

But go over your wiring and relay and check to see if there is any problems.

My bet is its the ballasts.

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Follow Up By: Member - Jack - Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 13:37

Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 13:37
Gee Ray, you're a nice bloke wishing that on a fellow forumite. You might get nicked as well.

Jack
The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. (Lewis Carroll-Alice In Wonderland)

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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 18:23

Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 18:23
Yep Jack, I agree, rudeness knows no boundaries.
Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: Member - Christopher P (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 20:06

Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 20:06
if the vehicle is factory fitted then it is legal.
if vehicle is retro fitted then that is a grey area. if the vehicle has them from factory in same or similar vehicle you can argue.

i would be running two relays and fast ones at that!!!
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Reply By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 13:53

Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 13:53
Have spent 2 hours hunting for the regs and cant find them.

From some informative posts on car forums it seems that that above 6000??? they are too blue and cant see as well with them.

Putting them in ordinary car headlights is a no no because the focal length of the bulb is different so they flare

The consensus of opinion is that you must have self levelling lights and washers on them.

The reason for the washers is because the purpose built assemblies are smaller and are required to be kept clean. An Email to the RTA would be the go for a definite answer.

The only page I could find with a regulation was from the UK but it said exactly what is being said here.

AnswerID: 444938

Follow Up By: Muntoo - Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 15:16

Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 15:16
I think even in driving lights, they are "Offroad Only". As most driving lights have to be 55w to comply with ADR.
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Follow Up By: geocacher (djcache) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 16:22

Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 16:22
Most driving lights are between 100 & 130W.

Dave
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 16:58

Thursday, Feb 10, 2011 at 16:58
Headlights are usually 55 w Even my old 900SX are 130w..

Its not so much the power but due to the shape of the reflectors in existing lights and the difference in length of the bulbs they dont focus properly and flare at oncoming traffic

The Kits for the lightforce are proper fitting for the lights they fit in


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Follow Up By: rapid80 - Friday, Feb 11, 2011 at 00:14

Friday, Feb 11, 2011 at 00:14
I'm pretty sure its only illegal on low beam(dipped beam) as per the adr's. You have to dip your high beam for oncoming vehicles so it doesn't matter how bright they are or whether the hid is in the high beam or spot lights. The adr's go into the technicalities of the lens shape and the lumen output for low beam but high beam and spot lights are nearly a free for all as long as there are no more than 4 extra lights fitted and any extra lights are fitted in pairs and connected to the high beam switch.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bucky - Friday, Feb 11, 2011 at 05:04

Friday, Feb 11, 2011 at 05:04
Guy's
Fair go
I run a separate switch located on the dash, and can isolate them any time.

I can run with or without the driving lights
That is legal anywhere.

Cheres
Bucky
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Saturday, Feb 12, 2011 at 07:37

Saturday, Feb 12, 2011 at 07:37
The ADR's state that you need washers for anything above 2000 lumens, regardless of the lightinhg technology, HID, Halogen or bright candles.That means that any halogen headlight upgrade above about 80w is also illegal without washers! There is also a section in the ADR's for the light dispersion patterns of HID, this is very technical and relates to the reflector shape and light output pattern. Many headlights will not comply with this, some later models however, like the 200 series will. The 200 uses H9 and H11 bulbs and the reflector is *identical* for HID or Halogen bulb types.

Importantly THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT FOR AUTO LEVELERS with HID. The standard refers to these and their performance, IF FITTED, but does not mandate that they should be used. The confusion comes about because it is a requirement in the UK and manufacturers usually fit them with the upgrade package that gives you HID. I am not sure about any requirements for colour, I have never seen anything relating to this, but all OEMs use 4300 - 5000K. 6000k is 15% less bright than 4300K, flares a lot and is more show than go IMO.
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Reply By: Member - Bucky - Friday, Feb 11, 2011 at 04:58

Friday, Feb 11, 2011 at 04:58
Everyone

I really do not care about ADR's, just a way to solve the problem
Yesterday was clean up day, with the wires. The wiring is all in split casing, and cable tied in neatly.

I went and purchased a second relay, and now run 2 separate systems to the Spotties.
Guess what ?
Same deal.......on off, left, right, nill.... bit of swearing.
My neighbour tells me that the one with the shortest wiring ( drivers side) fires just in front of the other.
Not sure if that helps anyone come up with an idea.

Another method may well be to run one driving light off each battery, thus ensuring both spotties get full blast power to fire them up.

Now Apparently genuine PhillipsHID's may need to wait 20-30 seconds or more before they can re-fire. ( not sure about that statement either )

Seems a bit poor to me, as my El-Cheepo H4's just flick up and down all day, but remember they are not turned off, just pull back into the the retaining head, and "shift focus" when I dip them.


Ah .....problems Problems ..

Cheers
Bucky


AnswerID: 445016

Reply By: Member - BUNDY BOY (WA) - Friday, Feb 11, 2011 at 22:26

Friday, Feb 11, 2011 at 22:26
Bucky...............easy fix ...1relay per light1
.1power lead from battery per relay
AnswerID: 445132

Follow Up By: Member - Bucky - Saturday, Feb 12, 2011 at 04:26

Saturday, Feb 12, 2011 at 04:26
Bundy Boy

Done that !

As I said I may well run one light off each battery, but I can almost guarantee that they will do the same.

What I will do is see if I can swap the ballasts, with a mates, just to prove ir is them.
As I said earlier, el cheepo ones won't do it, ( almost bet my leftie on that )

Cheers
Bucky
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FollowupID: 717383

Reply By: rapid80 - Saturday, Feb 12, 2011 at 10:56

Saturday, Feb 12, 2011 at 10:56
When the fault occurs have you put a multi meter on the wiring to the ballasts to make sure they are getting power? I've got numerous spotties on mine and have wired them up so 1 relay powers 2 spotties and 2 relays are connected to 1 switch. I have 4 spotties all connected to the same battery so can't see that you need to worry about that side of it. Isolate the supply side by making sure you're getting at least 12.5volts to the ballasts, if yes move on to the ballasts. Like you said you could then swap the ballasts but if both lights have the same problem at different times I'd think that you may have a power supply issue. If the battery or alternator can't power the lights then there is an issue so connecting 1 light to each battery is only a bandaid fix. I've got 4 spots on the bullbar, 4 on the roof rack for offroad driving plus 2 hid flood lights out the side for camping and they can all be on at the same time without hurting the alternator or draining the batteries. That's 1 of the reasons we use hid's. Also my relays are 30amps and they can handle 2 100w halogens without a problem so 2 hid's should be a breeze. Are the headlights positive or negative switched?
AnswerID: 445153

Follow Up By: Member - Bucky - Saturday, Feb 12, 2011 at 11:22

Saturday, Feb 12, 2011 at 11:22
rapid80
I have resigned myself to the fact that it is the ballasts.
Cheers to John and a couple of mates stirring me up

Now to solve the problem, which I will set about doing when next I come off shift, next wednesday morning.

Will most likley do some swapping of ballasts, and will try a couple of other things as well to try and get them to fire every time after I dip my lights.

Anything is possible.

The lights are stunning, to say the least, so it's worth the grief

Cheers
Bucky
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