Pedestrian verses car incidents

Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:06
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I visited Esperance WA. a while back amd the rule for pedestrian crossings is that the car has right of way IE. pedesrians wait for a gap to cross.
In NSW pedestrians walk on to a crossing with the attitude 'I'm ok' with the assumption they have been seen.
I wonder if the WA experience makes children more aware of vehicles at an early age.
Anyone know any statistics ?
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Reply By: Shaker - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:19

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:19
If you are referring to a marked pedestrian crossing then you couldn't be more ill-informed.
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:42

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:42
Hmmmm We did see places in the west that had signs stating

Cars have right of way etc. at pedestrian crossing.

Cant remember exactly where but thought it was a great idea.

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Follow Up By: Member -Pinko (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:47

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:47
Dear Shaker
In Esperance all marked pedestrian crossings in the CBD are signposted for PEDESTRIANS to give way to cars.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:56

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:56
From a Publication named:

Major Traffic Laws Relating to Pedestrians in
Western Australia

at: www.transport.wa.gov.au

· Pedestrian crossings (regulations 62, 63, 144, 199 & 214)
These crossings are more commonly called zebra crossings. Vehicles are required to give way to pedestrians on a pedestrian crossing and to not overtake another vehicle stopping or stopped at a pedestrian crossing.
If a pedestrian wishes to cross a carriageway and is within 20m of a pedestrian crossing, the crossing must be used.
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 22:10

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 22:10
Not disputing that

Never the less the signs are there and at least two of us have seen them

My wife agrees but cant remember which town it was.

Some tourist areas vary some regs to suit the area, like reverse in parking in some places.


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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 22:14

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 22:14
The OP made a 'blanket statement' which is dangerously incorrect!

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Follow Up By: Martyn (WA) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 22:17

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 22:17
Hi Pinko,
I'm not sure the ones in Esperance are marked with the black and white bands but the cross walks are definitely in favour of vehicles as the signs say, Kalamunda is the same, the cross walks specify that vehicles have the right of way, the cross walks are not marked with black and white bands.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 14:30

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 14:30
Interesting on Thursday Island there are signs at every intersection telling the pedestrians to stop and wait for the cars. On all crossings. A bit OT. Sorry.

I think the interpretation is that cars have the right of way BUT must yield to a pedestrian at or with 20M of a marked/signed pedestrian crossing. One interpretation is that the pedestrian does not actually have right of way until such right is given by the vehicle stopping/yielding.

The intention is to make the pedestrian more aware of the cars inalienable right to the road and that the pedestrian is only a temporary user of it.

But human nature being what human nature is, it now appears that the pedestrian believes he or she has the right to use the road at every intersection regardless of the colour of the traffic lights.

And don't they love to cross like "Browns cows"!!!!

Phil

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Follow Up By: disco driver - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 19:46

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 19:46
Yep, the ones in Esperence are NOT pedestrian crossings, they are speed control devices (speed bumps) in a different colour brick paving to the road surface so that the motorist can see them and slow down.
Pedestrian crossings must be marked with the traditional Black/White markings to be "Pedestrian crossings" where the cars must give way.

The same situation occurs in Albany's York Street and also in Geraldton's main St.

Disco.
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Reply By: skmaint (WA) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:24

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:24
Hi Pinko,

Not sure about the statistics but I was always brought up that if it is the zebra crossing (black and white marks) the pedestrians had right of way, driver had to stop and give way to them. We have a crossing in our suburb near the shops that is sign posted that pedestrians have to give way to vehicles.
Does not always happen.
I also understand what you mean about "I am the pedestrian they have seen me , I have the right away"
That is why I am always very careful when approaching these crossings.
I drummed it into my kids at a very early age to be very cautious when crossing at a pedestrian crossing or the road in any place.

Cheers
Simon

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Follow Up By: Dan - Yal - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:45

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:45
Pedestrians would normally have right of when using a crosswalk/zebra crossing.
The obvious exceptions are as follows.......

When the driver is on a really important phone call
When the driver is sending a really important text message
When the driver is distracted by a short skirt in the vicinity
When the driver has to turn and yell at the kids in the back seat
When the driver has to race through the car park so they get that prime parking spot before the disabled people do

In such circumstances, the pedestrian needs to realise they value their life more than the driver of the vehicle does.

Dan
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Reply By: Member - Christopher P (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:44

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:44
i think these days the pedestrian plays russian roulette.

i have had so many near misses from drivers on pedestrain crossings it's not funny.

me thinks i need to wear my steel cap boots and leave a impression of it in there doors.
or carry a really really big stick.

in queanbeyan, there are signs saying car has right of way...

few towns i have visited don't have that sign to let you know, or drivers don't care!!!
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Reply By: Mick O - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:48

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:48
Pinko,

not quite right. From WA road safety regulations;

· Pedestrian crossings (regulations 62, 63, 144, 199 & 214)
"These crossings are more commonly called zebra crossings. Vehicles are required to give way to pedestrians on a pedestrian crossing and to not overtake another vehicle stopping or stopped at a pedestrian crossing. If a pedestrian wishes to cross a carriageway and is within 20m of a pedestrian crossing, the crossing must be used."

Here's a link to a handy document providing an interpretation of WA road rules/legislation as it relates to pedestrians (who in most cases, have the right of way over vehicles and always do on pedestrian crossings).

WA pedestrian law

I have noted that some crossings at roundabouts in certain areas of Victoria (Mildura CBD is one example) pedestrians must give way to vehicles but this is an anomaly and clearly indicated by signs.

Cheers Mick



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Follow Up By: Mick O - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:51

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 21:51
Sorry, just saw your follow up (hadn't refreshed the page before replying). That makes what you were saying a bit clearer. It's a municipal specific traffic rule.

Cheers Mick
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Follow Up By: Member -Pinko (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 22:09

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 22:09
Mick
Wife and I stepped of the kerb at a zebra crossing in Esperance and were almost clouted.
Others also waiting at the kerb pointed to the sign post alerting us to cars first ... thats all.
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Follow Up By: Mick O - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 22:33

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 22:33
Well glad to see you're still with us to share the experience. Just goes to show what problems can be caused by a variation from what we thought was a "national" standard! Personally I don't think it should be permitted for the very reason you've highlighted. We have an agreed national standard, why confuse people!

As an aside, is your profile picture taken at Tarawi in SA Pinko. I have one very similar.

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Cheers Mick
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Follow Up By: The_Chad - Monday, Feb 21, 2011 at 00:26

Monday, Feb 21, 2011 at 00:26
Mick O,

Just wanting to clarify your observation about Mildura CBD rules for those who may be contemplating driving through there.... it is one of those rare places in Australia where the signs direct cars to GIVE WAY to pedestrians. And remarkably enough, the cars do give way. Great when you're a pedestrian, a bit annoying when driving of course. My experience of those sings in WA from Esperence to Broome is that the signs say pedestrians are to give way to cars. Given that this is the way pedestrians should generally view their interaction with cars, I reckon these signs only cause confusion, with people glancing at them and thinking that if there's a sign relating to peds v cars it must be something different, and I have a right of way...... I know I nearly fell for that, having seen similar looking signs in Mildura for instance...
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Reply By: The Landy - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 22:03

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 22:03
I’ve worked on the basis that if approaching the cross-walk on foot as a pedestrian then assume all cars will blissfully be unaware of you and take precautions so as not to get run over, and if I’m approaching the cross-walk in a car assume all pedestrians will blissfully be unaware of you and take precautions not to run them over.

I found it works well regardless of legalities and either way I’ve avoided becoming a statistic….so far! And I think it pays to teach all children to have a healthy dose of skepticism when it comes to other road users, whether they are drivers, or pedestrians.

Cheers, The Landy


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Reply By: BrownyGU - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 22:41

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 22:41
Not arguing either way, but what is the point of a "pedestrian" crossing that gives cars right of way???

Cheers.....Browny
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 23:03

Wednesday, Feb 16, 2011 at 23:03
Well I wish they had that at the Morayfield shopping centre in QLD

You come into it through a roundabout and there is a pedestrian crossing about 2
car lengths past it with the shops on one side and the carpark on the other.

You can sit there for 5 mins as the cretins who shop there wouldnt let any cars through if they could help it.

Have seen cars backed up 20 deep on the two roads that come into the roundabout as well as on the other side of the crossing but no one cares.

At Xmas they put a security guard there to help get the traffic through and the lovely shoppers just walked straight past him.

I love the place Ha Ha A nuclear bomb would fix it..




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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 00:10

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 00:10
If you were in the same place as a pedestrian, you most likely become one of the "cretins". You can't blame the pedestrians, only the trafffic authority, that by the sounds of things, should have installed crossing lights.
BTW that is not intended as a personal attack, when we are out of our vehicles, we are all pedestrians & probably no smarter either.

How many drivers know that when they are making a turn, pedestrians have right of way?
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 00:25

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 00:25
"How many drivers know that when they are making a turn, pedestrians have right of way?"
Yes, I knew that Shaker.........but until now I thought that I was the only person in the world that did know it!

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 09:56

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 09:56
Actually when I am a pedestrian I dont become a cretin.

If only one car is coming I usually hang back or motion them on.

Have done that at Morayfield to have the locals walk straight past into the path of the car.

Perhaps as the area has the lowest socioeconomic grading in the north Brisbane area, that has something to do with it.


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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:13

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:13
Graham, it was a tongue in cheek comment, because one thing I have noticed here is that anybody that may have different views is either a clown, an idiot or a cretin.
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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:25

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:25
Ha ha

I used to drive buses through there so I have a fair idea of the correct

terminology appropriate to the area LOL

Best day on the buses was the day I finished No more " Can I pay tomorrow" or next week or never.

Washing vomit out of the thing mid afternoon etc etc.

Cheers.


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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 13:05

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 13:05
Graham

Your comments say much your intolerance to others....

Often those that take the time to scratch the below the surface of communities perceived to be of a ‘lower socio-economic backgrounds’ are positively surprised by what they uncover...

Never judge a book by its cover comes to mind.....

My parents have lived in that area for a good part of the last 30 years, and I can tell you they may not be rich in wealth, but they’d welcome you into their home any day, and if you were down on your luck they’d give you their last 5 bucks if you needed it. And they aren’t unique, many people like that live in so-called ‘low socio-economic’ areas.

I’m surprised you actually enjoy travelling this country of ours, with such short-sightedness you’d never see what it really has to offer!

‘The Landy’

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Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 13:32

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 13:32
I dont doubt you one bit I was writing about the ones I came into contact with.

There was some nice ones that would for instance offer to pay for some non paying deadbeats bus fare.. Which I wouldnt allow them to do.

I did enjoy travelling Australia and met some wonderful people.

I have friends who live in the area also, but they didnt sponge on bus drivers

who used to have to make up the money out of their own pocket.

One tends to get a bit cynical after a while.

That does not alter the fact that work and retirement are totally different.

I treat people as I find them and unfortunately found a few of them wanting.

No reflection on your parents I probably never met them and Im sure they would be ok as most of the older ones were.

Unfortunately you only tend to remember the bad ones.

Cheers Enough I this I should have shut up but get annoyed at times LOL
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 14:24

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 14:24
Graham...I understand,

Despite advancing in age, and not too make myself sound older than I am, the testosterone still wriggles around sometimes (thankfully) and perhaps I should have taken a deeper breath and a chill pill.

Your point wasn’t lost on me, but fortunately there are more good than bad....


Cheers, The Landy
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Reply By: Member - Bill S (VIC) - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 00:04

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 00:04
Hi all,

In my experience you would find that all states basically say that vehicles must give way to peds. at "marked pedestrian crossings".

In Victoria i have noticed that councils tend to mark speed humps, pedestrian walkways in shopping centres etc with paint-work that may look like pedestrian crossings at a glance but are not. A pedestrian crossing must have the appropriate signage displayed for any approaching driver.

It pays to be careful at any time.

Bill S.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 09:35

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 09:35
Very good point Bill, our council does the same thing & it is very dangerous.
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Follow Up By: Honky - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:15

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:15
Even in the main shoping street in Penrith NSW the cars have right of way.
They are only raised walkways and are not zebra stripped.
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Reply By: mikehzz - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 05:11

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 05:11
Penrith NSW had crossings in the main street with signs that pedestrians must give way to cars as well. I always thought it was stupidity to have local exceptions to a pretty standard rule. Not everyone reads the signs and I saw plenty of near misses. Mike
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Follow Up By: Member - Tour Boy ( Bundy QLD) - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 09:28

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 09:28
There are quite a few places with "shared zones" where there is a 20kph speed limit and a free for all for vehicles and pedestrians.
Cheers,
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Reply By: Alloy c/t - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 09:26

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 09:26
And in my town we have no pedestrian crossings at all ,though we do have a marked Dinosaur crossing , like to see you lot not give way to Muttabusaurass Langdoni when it wants to cross the road to the pub ! Bullbar or not you will give way!
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Reply By: Member - Steve M1 (WA) - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 09:50

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 09:50
Image Could Not Be Found



Hi Stan

You are right about the pedestrian Give Way signs in Esperance. Cars have the right of way at crossings in the CBD. There are four Give Way signs at each crossing. The locals seem to be used to them but it's the tourists that don't notice the signs.

And yes... I live in Esperance!!
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Follow Up By: Alan Chops Arthur - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 10:27

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 10:27
I think that crossing isnt 'technically' a pedestrian crossing, as it's not marked as one. We have the same on the main drag in Albury, NSW, and they cause confusion for drivers and pedestrians alike. Visiting drivers tend to give way to pedestrians when they dont need to, and visiting pedestrians tend to saunter out expecting (wrongly!) that all the drivers will give way.

I reckon they're just a recipe for disaster. Take them out altogether, or make them proper pedestrian crossings. Otherwise, what's the point?
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Follow Up By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 10:29

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 10:29
This isn't a pedestrian or zebra crossing which is why there are signs warning pedestrians to give way, its just a speed hump with a "safety zone" half way across.

Shane
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 22:26

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 22:26
Looks to me like it IS a pedestrian crossing, but it is NOT a Zebra crossing - it's bound to confuse people.
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Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Tuesday, Mar 01, 2011 at 17:21

Tuesday, Mar 01, 2011 at 17:21
See my post below - You have Pedestrian Crossings (Zebra) and you have pedestrian refuges (Pedestrian gives way to traffic)

You also have a shared zone arrangement as well -also signed

Its not usually rocket science as they are always clearly marked as such.

Well all the ones I have installed as per requirements have been anyway :-)

I would assume pople who have a license should know this anyway :-)

Cheers Tony
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Reply By: Best Off Road - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 09:59

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 09:59
Interesting replies people. A clear example of the need to do away with State Governments so we can have uniform laws for road rules, licensing, firearms, boats etc etc.

Jim.

AnswerID: 445741

Follow Up By: Member - Graham H (QLD) - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 10:20

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 10:20
Also to have more money to pay for essential things, which doesn't include State and past politicians who are a drain on the economy.


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Follow Up By: get outmore - Monday, Feb 21, 2011 at 04:45

Monday, Feb 21, 2011 at 04:45
sounds good until we get foisted with the worst state rules

I would hate to have to deal with NSWs car rigmoral registration and SAs firearms laws for starters

same as over east they would be spitting chips having to deal with WAs reptile ownership laws

- just a few examples how that idea would go wrong very quickly
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Reply By: Member - Doug T (NT) - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:25

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:25
WA, The smart state, they get things right.

.
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Reply By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:13

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 12:13
There is a Pedestrian Give Way To All Traffic at a crossing in Tugan on the Gold Coast, it's about 20 metres from a Roundabout, it also has a centre island so they can stop if a vehicle is approaching when they get to the middle of the road, I reckon there should be more of them where the roads are not so busy.

Cheers
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Reply By: disco driver - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 19:56

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 19:56
Pinko,
You're lucky in NSW where as you say, pedestrians walk onto a crossing with he attitude 'I'm ok' with the assumption that they have been seen.

In WA the pedestrians are too busy mobile phoning , texting or listening to iPod music to have any awareness of where they are in relation to cars, other people or even lampposts.

No wonder that the pedestrian injury/death toll is on the rise...............yet the authorities are blaming the vehicles and/or drivers.

Disco.

Not quite on your thread but fits in under the Pedestrian Versus Car Incidents
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Feb 25, 2011 at 18:39

Friday, Feb 25, 2011 at 18:39
Are you naive enough to think that drivers aren't "mobile phoning, texting & listening to IPods".
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Reply By: dereki - Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 22:41

Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 22:41
The problem is a lot of people do not know how to use a pedestrian crossing, they only think "I have right of way so I am allowed to jump out in front of traffic and .... get killed."

1. Walk to crossing.
2. WAIT until traffic has stopped.
3. Walk across.

NOT

1. Jog along the footpath and suddenly take a 90deg turn across the crossing.
2. Give finger to cars who have screeched through the crossing unable to stop.

D
AnswerID: 445827

Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Mar 01, 2011 at 09:39

Tuesday, Mar 01, 2011 at 09:39
The other problem is, that a lot of drivers don't know that they must give way to a pedestrian when making a turn!
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Reply By: Hairs & Fysh - Friday, Feb 25, 2011 at 14:11

Friday, Feb 25, 2011 at 14:11
Ok Guys, here is my two bob's work.
I was brought up to stop at the kerb and wait for traffic to stop before crossing.
Very seldom do you see people do this any more. I will stop until the vehicle has stopped before crossing. I am of the understanding that not ALL vehicles will stop.
Something to do with self preservation, I believe.

The NSW road rules, Pedestrian crossing road rules

School Crossing have another set of rules.
I'm sorry I can find the link to the RTA documentation on this.
At a school crossing, The White solid line across the road is as good as a Stop Sign, Whether or not anybody is attempting to cross or not.
Here is some Information
I've been fighting our local council and the RTA to get motorist and heavy vehicle to slow down out side our school for over five years now.
The biggest offenders are the parents. Just watch how parents grab the arm of their child and drag them across the crossing or across another part of the street and force cars to stop. They are teaching kids, 1) that cars will stop for you, 2) you don't need to use a crossing.



Now, having said all that, another pet hate is when some dope on council or the RTA, thinks it's a good thing to put a crossing at each of the entry/exists to a roundabout at a very busy intersection.
It can cause the main street of a town to become clogged due to pedestrians continually using the crossings.

AnswerID: 446529

Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Feb 25, 2011 at 16:29

Friday, Feb 25, 2011 at 16:29
At school crossings, you must stop if a pedestrian is on or approaching the crossing & remain stationary until they are clear of the crossing.
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Follow Up By: Mike DiD - Friday, Feb 25, 2011 at 19:50

Friday, Feb 25, 2011 at 19:50
. . . also applies to one marked Children Crossing.

At normal Pedestrian Crossings, you only have to stop if there is danger of a collision with a pedestrian.
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Reply By: Mike DiD - Friday, Feb 25, 2011 at 19:52

Friday, Feb 25, 2011 at 19:52
Under the Australian Road Rules, it's illegal for a Pedestrian to walk along the road, if there is a Footpath.
AnswerID: 446555

Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh - Friday, Feb 25, 2011 at 20:09

Friday, Feb 25, 2011 at 20:09
Still doesn't stop the early morning walking want to make my backside smaller crowd does it.
;)
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Reply By: Hairs & Fysh - Tuesday, Mar 01, 2011 at 07:05

Tuesday, Mar 01, 2011 at 07:05
Hmm,
How to be a safe pedestrian
Please tell me that this is a bit of,(I Hate using these words) Common Sense.
Gee wiz, I had this drummed into to me some 40 odd years ago as a five year old at school and by my parents.
Why it's Harold Scrubby advocating good pedestrian practice?.
Because it's easier blame something else for the problem rather than address the the cause.



AnswerID: 446975

Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh - Tuesday, Mar 01, 2011 at 11:25

Tuesday, Mar 01, 2011 at 11:25
Sorry Bad Typo, should read, 'Why isn't Harold'
Dolht.
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Reply By: Tonyfish#58 - Tuesday, Mar 01, 2011 at 17:16

Tuesday, Mar 01, 2011 at 17:16
There are three types of crossings that spring to mind.

1) Pedestrian crossing (zebra) will be marked on the road and have signs erected, you must give way at zebra crossings

2) Pedestrian refuges - These are crossing where pedestrians have to give way to traffic and are always signed as such

3) The 3rd is not so obvious it is called a shared zone. The road enterance is normally signed at about 10k and pedestrians and vehicles vcan share the road and mind out for each other.

Cheers Tony
AnswerID: 447017

Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Tuesday, Mar 01, 2011 at 17:26

Tuesday, Mar 01, 2011 at 17:26
Qld Info

cHEERS tONY
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