Question Will Nissan release a GU with new the 3lt Diesel ?

Submitted: Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 11:11
ThreadID: 84774 Views:4601 Replies:5 FollowUps:8
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Like many I try to work out where things are going before lashing out.

Often this proves difficult - I remember a few years ago when a similar
question was asked about the popular 4.2 patrols upgrade.

Despite many forums, inside contacts etc, none got it right and
the first public knowledge that Nissan had done nothing but bump up
the mid range torque a bit until it was published in a 4wd magazine, and released by myself.

This time there are however logical inconsistences in various statements
that still allow for this possibility.

So to explain-->

Everyone knows Nissan will release the big superfat totally new Patrol next year.

Their statements also say that the current 3lt GU will run side by side for a few years as a budget buy as it still has a healthy market.

Ok - but this is illegal ! - Not sure about other states but Victoria requires all cars including Patrols made from 2011 to have ESC (electronic stability control) (reference this months RACV mag.)

OK, so how can Nissan sell new 3lt patrols ? - answer they have applied for and received an exemption based on the fact that a new model will be released for next year.

So what is the new model - it can't be the big fat one - else the GU won't continue to be sold "For a few years".

It can only be a running change to the current GU - so would this include a model with the new 3lt 170kw V6 ?

Robin Miller

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Reply By: Member - Boobook - Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 12:18

Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 12:18
Robin said:

"Everyone knows Nissan will release the big superfat totally new Patrol next year."

Robin, I don't think that is at all a given, and IMHO it is an extremely remote possibility. I think Nissan's official position now is that they are looking into how they can release it in 2012 or 2013. The Nissan CEO said that Australia is the only country that wants the new Patrol apart from the US and Middle East, so it would be the only diesel, and only RHD market. If it got the whole of the GU sales that's just 3000 a year ( forgetting it is more than double the price and a totally different market to the GU). IMHO it just aint gunna happen.

Your suggestion of the V6 3.0 makes the most sense and would make most Nissan buyers ecstatic I would have thought. Patrols have been available with Traction Control in the UK for many years. It may not be too much of a jump from that to Stability control.

Imagine that, a GU with that 3.0 diesel, with Stability control and ( presumably traction control) for $55k. Now that would be quite awsome. *nearly* as good as my 200 :-)

AnswerID: 447325

Follow Up By: Member - joc45 (WA) - Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 12:38

Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 12:38
Yes, food for thought.
The super-Patrol might be priced out of the local market, despite its good points, and if there is no diesel available then it will have limited appeal.
There is (IMHO) still a market for a large comfortable wagon which has the tough low-tech basics of 4wd utes - witness Toyota's 70-series wagons on sale - a 20yo design with a new V8 diesel engine.
But if Nissan are planning on keeping the GU running, then they'd better come up with a new diesel to replace the grenade. There's too much baggage tied up with the 3.0L, and besides, it's now 11years since its release.
I wait with bated breath....

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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 13:05

Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 13:05
Some sense in what you say Boobook , I didn't realize that Nissan had a traction controlGU version.

There is significant work in moving from the ABS system to traction control and as you say a small further jump to ESC.

I certainly brought my recent petrol GU with an eye on trading it in in
2 years for a possible 3lt V6 fitted GU.

As you know , I am happy to push the GU as almost the last true live axle
coil sprung wagon left, but also freely acknowledge that this wasn't becuase
of Nissans master plan, but rather that they ran out of money to develop
a 200 series challenger earlier.

Hence the dream of a $55,000 V6 GU while possible is unlikely to happen
but I think a $65,000 version is possible.

Jerry - from Nissans point of view I think they think the current 3lt is a profitable business and they may stick to the same thing without spending a cent - but then we come to my question , as this would be illegal.
Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 14:13

Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 14:13
Here is the article in October where Nissan started to throw some cold water on the previously announced 2011 release date of the new Y62 Patrol.

Diesel engine for Nissan Patrol hangs in balance

From that article.

"Mr Thompson ( Nissan Australia CEO) said Australia had been the only market to put up its hand for a right-hand drive Patrol, and also had been the only country to request diesel.

He said Nissan did not have a suitable diesel engine in its powertrain line-up, leaving it to try to source one elsewhere.

“It is impossible to say when a diesel would be launched,” he said."

I am not sure why the new 3.0 V6 wouldn't be suitable but only 5 months ago they didn't see it as a fit.

Whatever the case for the new one, if you took a vote between any variation of the new one, and a 3.0 V6 on a GU it would kinda be like a NSW state election result. Would you prefer to vote for a bloated, overweight monster that costs a fortune, serves no purpose in Australia and is a complete waste of money, or the would you prefer the Liberal party? ( It's a joke Joyce)
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 14:20

Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 14:20
Go Tony
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Reply By: TerraFirma - Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 13:23

Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 13:23
New Nissan Patrol

The first all new Nissan Patrol in more than a decade promises to take the off-road fight to its Toyota LandCruiser competition with improvements to driving ability and luxury.

After decades of service as a simple, tough workhorse the iconic Nissan Patrol has been transformed into a technological tour de force – and a big, heavy one at that.

But to keep faith with Patrol’s traditional fanbase, the current GU generation that first arrived in 1998 will continue to be sold in Australia beyond the arrival of the new Patrol, which arrives in 2011.

The hedging strategy was confirmed to Drive at the global debut of the new Patrol in Abu Dhabi over the weekend by program director Carla Bailo.

“In key markets we will continue selling the old Patrol to make sure we are bridging the gap," she said “For the customers who still want the rugged simple performance we will still provide that.”

Advertisement: Story continues below However, a Nissan Australia spokesman would not confirm the plan, only saying it was under consideration.

Bailo was speaking after Nissan president and CEO Carlos Ghosn had presented the new Patrol, codenamed PG616, to 1000 guests at the seven-star Emirates Palace hotel.

With the Middle East the Patrol’s biggest market, precedence has been given to left-hand drive production, so Gulf customers will be able to buy the new Patrol from April. Right-hand drive Patrols don’t start rolling out of Nissan’s new Kyushu plant until 2011.

When it does join the GU in Australia there should be little cross-shopping.

The new Nissan Patrol abandons live axles for all independent suspension, part-time mechanical 4WD for Nissan’s full-time electronically controlled All-Mode 4x4 system and currently has no manual gearbox option.

No doubt it won’t be cheap either, just like its only logical rival the Toyota LandCruiser 200 Series.

Compared to GU, the new Patrol grows 90mm in length to 5140mm, is 55mm wider and 85mm taller. It is also weighs in at nearly 270kg heavier at 2780kg.

The new Patrol also substantially outsizes and outweighs the LandCruiser 200 Series.

Only a 5.6-litre V8 Patrol with a seven-speed automatic gearbox was shown in Abu Dhabi. A diesel – and probably a manual gearbox - will be added before Australian on-sale, with a 3.0-litre Renault-sourced V6 the current engine favoured to slip under the bonnet.

The new Patrol deserves the oft-abused term ‘all-new’.

It rides on a fundamentally overhauled frame-on-body architecture.

It is bigger and heavier than its predecessor, has more interior space and is loaded down with a mass of sophisticated equipment including a further development of the West Australian-based company Kinetic’s hydraulic suspension system already used by more expensive versions of the LandCruiser and slightly smaller Toyota Prado.

While the Patrol has been pushed dramatically upmarket to satisfy the demands of customers in the Middle East (although the GU will also continue to be sold in the Gulf), it also adds sophistication because it has been twinned with the Infiniti QX56, the heavy-duty SUV of Nissan’s luxury division. The QX debuts at the New York motor show in April.

Despite the its new-found civility, Nissan insists the new Patrol should dramatically outperform its predecessor off-road as well as be a far superior drive on-road.

“The new Patrol not only upgrades in terms of the quality and features and on-road conveniences but also maintains the ruggedness and durability of the previous generation,” Bailo promised. “In fact the performance is even better.”

Importantly, Bailo say it matches the GU’s huge 3500kg braked towing capacity.

The shift to double wishbone-based independent suspension has driven the use of the Hydraulic Body Motion Control system, which banishes stabiliser bars and relies instead on oil-filled cylinders to vary roll stiffness depending on the driving conditions. The LandCruiser system still uses stabiliser bars.

The Patrol’s more intelligent All-Mode 4x4 system allows the driver to dial between four modes; sand, on-road, snow and rocks. Other aspects of the system include a lockable centre differential and a lockable helical limited slip rear differential for superior traction.

There’s also an active limited slip differential, electronic traction control, a hill holder system and hill descent control to maintain a set speed down steep off-road slopes.

The 5.6-litre V8 that replaces the old 4.8-litre six-cylinder as the Patrol’s petrol choice is an overhauled version of the engine used by the old QX56. Employing variable valve timing and direct injection it produces 300kW and 560Nm (although a detuned version will also be offered).

Nissan claims “class-leading” fuel economy but has issued no figures.

Importantly for the few V8 petrol Patrol customers expected in Australia, the tank capacity grows from 95 or 125 litres (depending on the old Patrol model) to 140 litres.

The Patrol’s seven-speed automatic transmission is a development of the unit that debuted in the 370Z sports car. It has been recalibrated to cope with extra torque and for better economy.

The Patrol continues to seat eight passengers. Nissan claims 100mm more legroom for second row passengers and unquantified improvement in the third row. The third row also now folds into the floor, helping improve luggage space.

While many specification details were held back at the international unveiling and drive, Nissan did confirm the Patrol would be fitted with a maximum six airbags.

Other safety items available include lane departure warning, intelligent cruise control, stability control, a forward collision warning system and a claimed world first tyre inflation indicator for the tyre pressure monitoring system. Massive 20-inch wheels house bigger brakes with new calipers and boosters.

The comfort equipment list also includes claimed world firsts, namely an individual multi-screen DVD system and new roof mounted air vents. Also available are a cool box, 9.3gB hard drive, sat-nav, a 360-deg camera monitoring system and a power liftgate.

AnswerID: 447332

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 14:07

Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 14:07
Hi Terra

Yep , I read that add to and its consistent with the Vic exemption application, but not with later stuff about running GU for some years like old Navara.

One thing I can say though is that the following statement is rubbish.

"Nissan insists the new Patrol should dramatically outperform its predecessor off-road as "

I will stand inline to prove this - its likely to be similar to my Hummer test post 73549 , but may have some redeeming features as per post 74245 (Hummer /Patrol re-match).
Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: age - Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 18:09

Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 18:09

That SMH article/ad is very dated and over 12 months old so was pure speculation not long after the UAE release.

As Boo Book states, think it will be a stretch to tool up for a RHD diesel only limited market like Australia (although Toyota are doing this with the FJ Cruiser ???)

My bet will be that the current GU will be configured with the new diesel and required safety add ons to compete with 200 series standard/old 76 series market/possible Prado buyers and a petrol V8 bought in of the new model on special order only to compete against Sahara buyers as a show pony or high end tow vehicle market only.


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Reply By: ben_gv3 - Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 13:31

Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 13:31
Maybe they own't sell them in Vic? Isn't there a company in WA selling Chinese-made cars which don't have ESC? They can't sell them in Vic because of it but in WA it's OK.
AnswerID: 447334

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 14:02

Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 14:02
Vic introduced the ESC legislation last month, but I think later this year it will be Australia wide.

A bit of stupidity in my opinion.
Stupid because Victoria are not in sync with the rest of Australia.
Stupid because of the huge number of exemptions that are being granted to vehicles in Victoria.
Stupid because ESC is a good idea in theory, but will do nothing to cut the road toll.
FollowupID: 719629

Reply By: Member - Phil B (WA) - Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 14:23

Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 14:23
If Nissan are going cold on a new Nissan - Toyota are going to stir up the mix a bit more - they are supposedly bringing out a standard version of the 200 series in 2012 and dropping the 76 model.
One wonders how basic, how much cheaper etc I suspect it wont be that much cheaper.


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AnswerID: 447340

Follow Up By: bobldo - Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 15:36

Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 15:36
by the way I saw the new Nissan Pathfinder with a 3ltr V6 at the caravan and Camping Show in Adelaide recently - Price $84K - rediculous. Seesm to be getting out of control. Nissan will loose a lot of Patrol customers. Its a pity, they are such a great tug. Just my 2 cents worth. Whose got all the money out there ? Cheers Bob.
FollowupID: 719639

Reply By: nowimnumberone - Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 19:26

Friday, Mar 04, 2011 at 19:26
i was lead to believe in vic it had to be either esp or side curtain air bags not both
AnswerID: 447358

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