Easter Bunny escapes with the money

Submitted: Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 15:54
ThreadID: 85184 Views:4004 Replies:11 FollowUps:28
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G'day Folks

A NSW south coast caravan park is charging $100 per night for a powered site (family of five, with 18 month old free) for the Easter period.

I understand peak seasons, supply and demand, increased labour costs, and freedom of choice around going elsewhere, but it does seem over the top.

A good incentive to stay at home over Easter?

Cheers
John G
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Reply By: Member - Tour Boy ( Bundy QLD) - Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 16:22

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 16:22
Name and shame
Cheers,
Dave
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Follow Up By: Baz&Pud (Tassie) - Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 16:55

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 16:55
Go along with that.
Had to pay $40+ a night at a CVP in Alice Springs last year and we thought that was a rip off, some of these guys obviously think we are all made of money.
Bas
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 17:23

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 17:23
They'd be right thinking you were made of money with your $100,000+ worth of Landcruiser & Van & because you & the hundreds of others paid the $40 a night they will continue to keep charging that cos clearly alot of people can afford it.
Quality parks in high demand areas will always be able to charge more. No shame in that.
Cheers Craig...........
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Follow Up By: Member - John G- Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 17:28

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 17:28
Nah Dave

I suspect that they are not alone in charging this rate.

Cheers
John G
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Follow Up By: Member - Roger B (VIC) - Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 18:20

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 18:20
Many people think others are loaded with dough because they have an up market veh and van. Most of them have worked for 40 or 50 years and saved to obtain those things. Good luck to them. They shouldn't be ripped off just because they appear to travel in style. Me ? I've got a 10 year old vehicle and a 20 year old van, but don't like being ripped off either. Cheers all.

Roger B...
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Follow Up By: dazren - Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 18:31

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 18:31
I'm with you tourboy, Name and shame !! If they want to rip-off people in the peak times when they have no trouble filling their sites.Then do not support them in the off-season, They can only rip-off for approx 7 to 8 weeks a year, so do not support them for the other 45 odd months, i do not mind paying a slight premium during peak times. BUT $100 for a powered sight, stick-it !!
Do not know the name of the park [ yet ! ] however i bet it is not an Ozpark, Family park, or Top Tourist park, They are the parks that look after the regular travellers, hence they are the parks that get my business
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Follow Up By: River Swaggie - Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 21:16

Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 21:16
***Many people think others are loaded with dough because they have an up market veh and van. Most of them have worked for 40 or 50 years and saved to obtain those things. Good luck to them. They shouldn't be ripped off just because they appear to travel in style. Me ? I've got a 10 year old vehicle and a 20 year old van, but don't like being ripped off either. Cheers all. ***

Where quick to assume everyone owns what they have in there possession.I'd be sleeping in my swag on the roof rack than pay those ridiculous fee's..

Couldnt imagine going into Safeway and they ask what car do you drive sir,a BMW well theres a 50% wealthy tax on ya grocery bill...Didnt get to mention its a 79 model....lol
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 17:06

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 17:06
You would be better off finding a motel for the same amount and save all the unpacking!! But its not all that easy to fiddle about at the end of the day with small kids, i know, i have been there.. Michael
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Follow Up By: Member - John G- Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 17:32

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 17:32
G'day Michael

I agree, but it's my son and his family who are borrowing our camper to spend Easter with other families. The rate represents a 25% increase over the fee for the same period last year.

Cheers
John
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Reply By: Member - Tony V (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 17:24

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 17:24
Hmmm

No room at the Inn

The Caravan Park is too expensive

Did you check the stable?
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Follow Up By: Member - Boeing (PER) - Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 22:20

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 22:20
Very good Tony LOL .
When you get to the CP check for the star in the east!
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Reply By: Dennis Ellery - Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 18:05

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 18:05
Thats cheap in some places - We took a powered site in a down market park at Byron Bay for the New Year Hols at $35/person/night and it was the pits.
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Follow Up By: Member - Michael P (QLD) - Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 18:35

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 18:35
Dennis,
Last year sept. school holidays took my van down to Byron (beach side park) for my Daughter & 3 kids 5 nights= $255.00.
After picking the van up loading it for myself & headed south, coming into Broken Hill thought I'd stay the night & pick up a couple of things at the shops in the morning. Pulled into the Caravan Park $48.00 ONE person. Broken Hill !
The dry creek bed about 25k further on was most pleasant.
That was at the end of school hol's & as a single traveller almost always pay for 2 except in free camps.
Hard to fathom isn't it.
Mike.
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Reply By: Dan - Yal - Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 18:57

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 18:57
Although a lot of people may complain about the cost of staying in a caravan park, few have a thorough understanding of the costs involved in buying and running a caravan park
Its not unusual for caravan parks to sell for $3m+, in which case the park owner could easily be paying over $5,000 a week in interest repayments just to service the debt incurred in buying the park. Thats without paying council rates, insurance, staff, electricity, land tax etc.
They are not cheap business's to run and if I was risking a few million on buying a caravan park, I'd expect to make a profit.

Dan
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Follow Up By: Ianw - Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 20:00

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 20:00
Sounds like it may have been a poor business decision to buy the park in the first place, if thats the case. Not enough research.



Ian
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 20:09

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 20:09
It is only a poor business decision if they don't charge a high enough tariff.
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Follow Up By: Member - John B2 (VIC) - Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 20:15

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 20:15
Shaker

You have hit the nail on the head

These people have made a perfect business decision, as they will probably be overbooked for Easter, as most caravan parks at a premium price are Australia wide.

Cheers,
John
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Follow Up By: Member - Barry (NT) - Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 21:02

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 21:02
Dan

your post was simplistic and could be the case for ANY business, ie we don't understand the full costs,,,.

BUT please don't think that $100 per night is simply justified by market forces.

Market forces are excuses for a lot of things including blatant ripoffs.

As stated by others above NAME & SHAME and when they loose support they will whinge no doubt,,, the industry seems to work this way.

We've been on the road 3 years full time and can spot a rip off, but we support small business ALWAYS.
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Follow Up By: Member - Josh- Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 21:24

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 21:24
What gets me is one place is $55 a night and the next $30 a night. We stayed at a place in WA. Pulled in about 9 pm friday night. Leaving 7am in the morning. $75 for the night no power. I said that pretty dear for a piece of grass. Yeah he said, we put the price up for the long weekend. I asked how much for a cabin. $100!!!! So for $25 I didn't have to put the trailer up in the rain or pack up. Best $25 I ever spent LOl.
I hate paying premiun price for a run down dump with no maintainance. Or power/non power being the same price. If the price is higher than I think is fair I get my monies worth, all lights on, recharge everything, nice long hot shower, Clean out the car and trailer and fill their bin up.
On the other hand if it is fair priced, short shower, turn lights off, careful with waste.

JOsh
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Follow Up By: Outback Gazz - Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 21:36

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 21:36
The problem is -

Some people think that money is the most important thing in life ! (Apparently it's very expensive to live in a coffin)

Condolences to all those poor unfortunate people who chose not to work 24/7 and travel this great country in their 4wd's, camper trailers, campervans, caravans and tents - what were you thinking ??

Unfortunately, I will probably see you in the bush somewhere !



Gazz
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Follow Up By: Member - Boeing (PER) - Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 22:42

Wednesday, Mar 23, 2011 at 22:42
John, I think the problem is those CP's that are located in tourism areas have peaks and lows. In the lows you still have to maintain the park, pay rates etc. Example Broome . In the peak season you pay through the nose and a great deal of people feel that they have paid too much. However, if those same people went to the caravan park in the off season they would see that it is nearly empty. I think that it can be explained by "make hay while the sun shines".
Those parks that are located say in Adelaide or more mainstream, their prices should be more consistent across the board as they don't have the peaks and troughs.

Cheers


Mark
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Follow Up By: Begaboy - Friday, Mar 25, 2011 at 08:08

Friday, Mar 25, 2011 at 08:08
i Understand what your saying , BUT in reality - bank will not lend $3m to someone that has not already have assets and proven income , so woth that said chances are the owner is not totally in over there heads , and if they are = more fool them
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Reply By: The Landy - Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 09:27

Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 09:27
The reality in Australia is that the caravan parks that we all knew from our child-hood days, the ones where mum, dad, and the kids pulled up in their Viscount, stayed for weeks over Christmas are long gone and with them the rates we used to pay. Yes, there might be some out there that represent better value than others, but for the most part Caravan Parks in popular tourist spots, especially on the coast, are multi-million dollar business’s, that need to make huge investments to attract the ‘paying’ crowd.

The price of coastal properties in Australia has sky-rocketed over the past 25 years, and so have the rates the local council collects from the land holders, including caravan parks. So whilst many of us have benefited from rising house prices increasing our wealth, it comes at a cost in other ways, and this is just one of them. The value of the land that the more popular caravan parks sit on have sky-rocketed also.

Now I’m not defending Caravan Parks or what they charge that is entirely there business, and besides they have their own Association that can do that, but why single out CPs at this time of year.

How can it be that the cost of an airline seat for the guy down the front of the plane, was half the price of what you paid for yours down the back, or why are turkey’s more expensive at Christmas, how come the price of umbrella’s go up on rainy days. Well I guess the answer lies somewhere between opportunism, and the reality that business owners need to consider what they need to ‘yield’ on average over the course of a year to remain viable, whether they sell airlines seats, umbrella’s or turkeys.

Off-peak will see rates for many things tumble, and this will be subsidised by those who want to use the service at the peak time.

Consider, overtime, many Australian’s enjoy an extra payment if they work beyond a set number of hours in a week, why? Opportunism, and the fact that labour was in short supply so you have offered yours out at a higher rate because of this demand.....we all do it in some form, don’t we?

Rabbiting on now...but vote with your feet and money if you don’t want to pay the price, but equally if we all do this, caravan parks will disappear, slowly, but surely.

Cheers, The Landy


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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:29

Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:29
Just further to the previous post. Following is a link to Aspen Parks Property Fund. This fund invests directly in caravan/resort parks and manages them and has a portfolio of these spreading across Australia.

This is the way the ‘humble’ caravan park is heading, but it is interesting to note that it has 25 properties that it values in excess of $260M, and whilst some might be worth more than others, that it equates to around $10M a piece if looked at simplistically.

What I find interesting is that this fund yields around 8.6% pa and has yielded around 12% since 2004. Now I don’t know if that is an adequate return for an investment of this type, and I’m certainly not spruiking Aspen Funds, but what it does tell you is a business operator with a spread of investments in caravan/resort parks is currently returning of 8.6% pa to its investors/owners – I ask the question is this excessive? Money in the bank for 12 months will earn you 6.0% pa, and that comes with a guarantee you’ll get your money back (in most cases) without having to worry about whether the toilets are flushing, or the ‘dump’ point is full; okay, I accept you have to talk to a banker, but I’m sure you get my point.

It doesn’t look like the returns generated from caravan/resort park investments are extra-ordinary, despite many suggesting they are rip-offs....

Aspen Parks - Tourist Stays

Cheers, The Landy
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Follow Up By: Member - Wim (Qld) - Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 12:36

Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 12:36
Hi Landy.

Many thanks for adding a few facts to the discussion.

regards
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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 14:14

Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 14:14
Hi Landy,
I think you could forget the 8.6% as it states the return has been 12% since 2004, and will probably rise as more baby boomers hit the road more often.

This 12% would probably not include the on going capital gain. Which can only increase as land values increase, going forward, as they say.

They are not all that bad otherwise these larger corporations would not give them a second look. As we know many parks are being bought up by larger corporations probably with an eye to the future potential uses such as high rise development or resort style setups.

And they are not only buying on the coastal strips.

Cheers, Bruce.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 15:18

Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 15:18
Hi Bruce

I won’t speculate on what future returns might be, but can only highlight what it currently is. But I believe you are correct to point out that one of the attractions for investors is the prospect of an increase in the share/unit values due to increasing asset/property values.

And therein lies the problem, it is getting to a point that the returns that can be generated from your ‘average’ caravan park, when taking into account the total economics of running one versus what people are willing to pay, will not stack up against turning it into an alternative such as apartments/housing if the land use permits. After all this is one way to monetise your capital gains. There have been many examples of this in recent times, but will be hard pressed to find an example (if any) of new caravan parks being established.

What prompted me to post on this topic is we frequently see criticism of caravan parks based on a notion that they are ‘ripping us off’ which often has very little fact associated with it. There are many reasons why caravan parks are costed the way they are, and reality says that over time something will need to change, either the land tax relating to caravan parks and how it is applied or users become more willing to pay more, perhaps a combination of both, otherwise caravan parks as we have known them will become extinct.

As for concerning ourselves with ‘price’ increases at Easter time, the list is long and distinguished, and whilst caravan parks may feature on it, there are many other examples of business’s that are reliant on certain times of the year to generate a large portion of their annual revenue..

Cheers, The Landy
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Follow Up By: Member - John G- Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 16:03

Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 16:03
G'day The Landy

You make cogent points as always, nevertheless I still reckon a 25% increase from last FY, and $100 per night for a family is over the top.

It could be argued that young families with school age children are generally constrained to school holidays and long breaks such as Easter, and that they therefore bear the brunt of peak prices in caravan parks. As a result, folks such as me who steer clear of peak periods, are being subsidised by the younger travellers.

You are right that something may need to change, or will change. Sales of caravans don't seem to be declining, so the plot of grass with a power pole and running water will inevitably increase in cost, particularly in coastal areas.

Cheers
John
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Follow Up By: Rob! - Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 17:16

Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 17:16
Landy,

I suspect that the 8.6% return is AFTER the investors have paid the employees tolook after the caravan park. It is the employees who have to worry about blocked loos, not the investors.

R.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 18:50

Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 18:50
G'day Rob....yeah I guess I can accept that probably happens ;)

Cheers, The Landy
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Follow Up By: geoffqld - Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 19:33

Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 19:33
It should be pointed out that the return quoted is on the valuation not the cost of purchase, One of the great cons of all time is if the return goes up then the valuation goes up which lowers the return and causes the price of the service to go up. Vicious circle where the consumer loses and all the powers that be say "that's competition".
Geoff
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Reply By: Capt. Wrongway - Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:35

Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:35
Unfortunately this is part of the problem with our economy. Business & companies are no longer satisfied with making a reasonable profit, they want to make an obscene profit. IMHO, with the rising cost of living and essential services, it will eventually cripple our economy.
Capt.
AnswerID: 449115

Follow Up By: Rob! - Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:59

Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:59
So, are you prepared to work for less than somebody is prepared to pay you?
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Follow Up By: Member - Kevin S (QLD) - Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 14:59

Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 14:59
And don't forget that the returns of the Aspen Group and the profits of those "greedy" banks and all the other public companies and investment funds are adding to the value of your super or allocated pension and helping you to pay for that holiday or tour Australia.

Kevin
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Reply By: coonick - Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 17:48

Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 17:48
Im sorry but $100 a night for a powered tent site can not be justified in any way.
That is pure rip off in any terms.
regardless of where the caravan park is.
peak times is a load of crap.
If you want to get into a specific park BOOK EARLY.
The whole reason for powered and unpowered sites is for the basics.
To sleep in tent , swag, camper trailer or caravan.
That is why we use these sites.
AnswerID: 449147

Follow Up By: Member - John B2 (VIC) - Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 19:04

Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 19:04
But guess what they are all booked out, only some people think it is a rip off, others happy to pay, that is why they charge these prices

Cheers,
John
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Reply By: Shaker - Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 23:31

Thursday, Mar 24, 2011 at 23:31
I suspect that by Easter, you will think that $100.00 a night is nothing compared to what you will be paying for diesel to get there!

AnswerID: 449176

Reply By: Begaboy - Friday, Mar 25, 2011 at 08:03

Friday, Mar 25, 2011 at 08:03
EVEN more reason to become independent of such places -

4x4 - and decent tent or off road camper trailer / pop top

portable toilet - Gas hot water shower - generator and solar panel and batteries


then you can camp for free away from everyone in some awsum places rather than 2 foot away from bogans and screaming kids

or for $700 a week you can come camp on our property ( kidding - its all washed away from the floods ! )

BB
AnswerID: 449185

Reply By: Tjukayirla Roadhouse - Friday, Mar 25, 2011 at 23:02

Friday, Mar 25, 2011 at 23:02
wow, that's a bit rich eh.
First thing we did here was reduce the cost of camping, we're not big fans of excessive fees ourselves.
AnswerID: 449258

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