How to jump start a car

Submitted: Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 10:22
ThreadID: 85393 Views:3312 Replies:8 FollowUps:10
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There's an article in today's paper as per the title. For the car with the dead battery it says "not to clamp the jumper lead to the negative terminal of the dead battery, but to clamp to an unpainted metal surface of the dead car." I re-read it again thinking that and why and read on thinking it probably clarifies why not to connect to the battery's negative terminal but it doesn't. With the article not clarifying why I thought it was very poorly written.

I've never ever hear of this before and have always connected to the battery terminals. Have I been doing it wrong all these years? Thanks
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Reply By: Mike DiD - Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 10:36

Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 10:36
When you make the last connection, there will be some sparking.

If you make this connection near the battery, there's a danger it would ignite any Hydrogen that's been generated in the battery.

If you've ever seen the result of a battery explosion, you'd know why this is very bad.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 11:13

Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 11:13
Hi Mike,
I was under the impression that there is little or no hydrogen given off or available when the battery is flat. Hydrogen is gassed off during the charge process, I thought.

I thought the reason for connecting to an earth away from the neg terminal was to reduce spiking for the on board computer.

I have seen and heard several batteries at different times explode due to the charge process and a stray spark ignited them. Luckily I have never had it happen to me although I was only 40 feet away in most of those cases.

I learn something new every day and I think today will be no exception, so please, enlighten me. In a nice way of course. LOL

Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: Mike DiD - Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 11:46

Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 11:46
You will only cause increased spike voltages to car electronics by connecting away from the battery terminals - the battery acts as a surge absorber.

Spikes from Jump starting are big myth to sell expensive Jumper Leads with pathetic useless suppressors in them.

Every time you disconnect the starter motor, there's a massive surge from the current to the motor windings being interrupted.

The only time you'll get a surge from Jump Starting is when the leads are reversed.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 14:07

Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 14:07
Thanks Mike,

I always wondered why, if the computers were effected by a surge, they didn't put a cap in their circuit to protect them. They probably did, given your reply..

So this spike thing is a myth then ??.

You are an autolec are you not. I seem to recal from your previous posts that is/was your trade.

Thanks again Mike.

Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: Crackles - Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 14:32

Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 14:32
Spikes from jump starting do occur as I've seen 1st hand 4 trunked radios blown up on our work trucks over the years as a direct result.
The proceedure we now use is to pull the radio fuse, turn on the trucks headlights, then make the last negative connection to the body. No special jumper leads used. The headlight trick was picked up from the RACV to absorb any possible surge. Have never had or even heard of a computer being fried (Yet)
Cheers Craig..................
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Follow Up By: dbish - Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 15:00

Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 15:00
Bosch engine management computers Ive pulled apart have large voltage dependant diode surge supressors on the power feed just in site the ECU.
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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 19:57

Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 19:57
Thanks Crackles and dbish,

Cheers, Bruce.

At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: Member - Bucky - Monday, Apr 04, 2011 at 04:22

Monday, Apr 04, 2011 at 04:22
Mike

Would have reconed that a spark, means that there is a current surge/spike into the computer/computers, which can blow the chips.
Very expen$ive

CHeers
Bucky


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Reply By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 11:05

Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 11:05
i can answer that for you or at least clear it up for you.....
The battery is to provide the starter motor with power to start the car ....
The starter motor is bolted on to the motor ...
The link between the battery and starter is via 2 cables, neg and pos and part of the neg link is the body or chassis, the battery will have a cable (neg) from the battery to the body or some even to the motor as well, all will have a cable from the body to the motor ....
So the reason behind clamping the neg to the body or chassis is to take out the need for the current to pass through at least 1 cable as every cable it has to pass through it loses power ...
So in reading the above the ultimate way would be to connect both the positive and neg jump cables direct to the starter bypassing all cable losses but for saftey reasons if you just connect the neg to a bare metal part on the block and the pos to the pos on the battery at least you will get the neg losses down and help it to start ...
But ....... if you want to just charge the battery then connect it direct to the terminals of the battery as it will run into the battery without going through cables (reverse)
Cheers
Joe
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Follow Up By: Member Brian (Gold Coast) - Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 13:26

Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 13:26
Thumbs Up... a well written reply Joe!!

Cheers

Brian


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Reply By: Mike DiD - Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 15:28

Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 15:28
If the 200 to 400 amps needed to start a car/4WD had to come through the tiny contact area provided by Jumperlead clamps, they would glow red and weld in place.

Arc welding can be done with 50 amps.

The jumper leads feed current that puts some charge into the flat battery, then it can run the Starter Motor using short heavy wiring.
AnswerID: 450187

Reply By: get outmore - Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 15:47

Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 15:47
ive heard of it but always have connected + to + and - to - No pupies died no one starved in rawanda and freo never one a grand final because of doing it old school
AnswerID: 450191

Reply By: Bazooka - Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 16:09

Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 16:09
Yep you have Rod and it relates to the possibility of a spark/explosion near the battery as others have said. Interesting to note the RACQ comment re spiking - DON"T disconnect the leads while either car is running (woops, that's what I've done in the past, without problem thankfully).

'Operating a vehicle with certain battery faults or disconnecting jumper leads while either engine is running can cause voltage spikes that can damage sensitive electronic components and the vehicle’s electrical system'.

RACQ advice
AnswerID: 450196

Follow Up By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 16:47

Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 16:47
Yeah, but how are you going to re-start the vehicle that has the flat battery??
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 19:09

Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 19:09
Tongue-in-cheek I presume Shane.
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 16:51

Sunday, Apr 03, 2011 at 16:51
Have a read of your vehicle's manual - it will have a photo of where to put the negative lead - in the one's I've read, its been directly to the motor, which makes sense to me.

I get some change back into the dead battery for 5 minutes before attempting to crank, so there could easily be hydrogen lying around.
AnswerID: 450203

Reply By: Robin Miller - Monday, Apr 04, 2011 at 09:02

Monday, Apr 04, 2011 at 09:02
Thats the recommended way, and as Joe and some others have said it is to reduce resistance making the starter turn a little easier and reducing sparks.

However I never thought that it was right advice and we connect direct to
terminals (usually clamps on terminals) from running car, after checking
batteries with voltmeter.

Vital to listen to donor car as you complete connection, if its speed drops
to much you should disconnect a lead right away before possible short etc
can cause damage or generate H gas.

I think there are more potential problems, particularly with people who never lift a bonnet, of connecting to wrong part of engine or even to an aircon pipe etc.

The risk of hydrogen explosion in the above jump start senario is very low.
Usually after someone starts a car they reach in and remove leads, and you should remove black first and you don't want people reaching further into the running engine bay than you have to.

Also by connecting to battery as direct as possible you are more likely
to discover issues with high resistance connections ( about 1/2 of reasons for flat batteries) and also you limit spikes into wiring.
Robin Miller

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Reply By: landseka - Monday, Apr 04, 2011 at 09:47

Monday, Apr 04, 2011 at 09:47
I have done many, many jump starts on flat batteries in a past working life.

I would always connect vehicles + to +, - to vehicle engine block ALWAYS with donor battery/ vehicle engine OFF and only after ensuring the flat vehicle had ALL electrics turned off, even shut door to turn off light.

After a few minutes connected I would start the donor car THEN the flat car. Whilst the flat car was running I would do my paperwork, talk to the owner to try to ascertain why the battery was flat to allow at least 5 minutes running then turn off BOTH vehicles then disconnect cables.

The flat vehicle will now re-start on the residual charge put into it, if it doesn't then that battery is clagged and we fit a new one.

If you don't turn off both vehicles before disconnection the flat vehicles alternator which was happily idling away having a fully charged donor battery in circuit is suddenly left with a flat battery and kicks itself into full charge mode possibly frying electrics.

This is what I understand happens and I never 'lost' a car by following this procedure.

Cheers Neil
AnswerID: 450288

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