toyota purchase

Submitted: Saturday, Nov 15, 2003 at 18:37
ThreadID: 8544 Views:1557 Replies:7 FollowUps:8
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Hello i have 19 y/o son wanting me to buy vehicle thats ok have found 1987 model toyota l/c diesal with long range tank,radio bull bar,cargo barrier,wheels,recaro seats,truck drives ok no apparent rust 325000k ,but has turbo added,yes it is diesal,only thing to worry about is previous owner has fitted gu bonnet scoop backwards to remove heat from engine bay.Price around $11000.
Question is the engine suitable to turbo or will it overheat.

at least he is not spending my cash on bad women and good times YET,guess hes still got a bit to learn.
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Reply By: ross - Saturday, Nov 15, 2003 at 20:07

Saturday, Nov 15, 2003 at 20:07
Hi brian ,In my opinion the fitting of bonnet scoops forward or backwards does not cool the motor in any significant way.The original idea of a bonnet scoop was to force air into a carburettor,nothing more.The amount of heat that an engine sheds through ventilation is minimal and its the radiator that really does the work.I know when an engine overheats and you turn it off and lift the bonnet it cools down quicker but thats because its stopped producing heat.It would be best to cure the root cause of the overheating.It could be the fan clutch or a blocked radiator.A fan clutch can be topped up with silicon or have its spring replaced cheaply otherwise a new one is about a $150.A new radiator runs into $500-$600 although there are cheaper versions around.Im getting my radiator flushed this week and radiator shop said in their experience it is a waste of time and money repairing them if they have seepage .

Being an 87 model I will assume that it is an 2H motor.The main difference between this and the factory 12HT turbo version is the compression ratio which is slightly lower.I dont remember how much but if it was set up by an expert it wont be a problem.Generally turbo charging a diesel is about the most reliable performance mod there is. The only diesel I know that didnt like it was a particular Nissan Patrol which was modified by the dealerships .When it failed, Nissan refused to honour the warranty.

One important thing on a landcruiser to check is the output flanges on the transfer case.Put it in neutral and see if there is any play by grabbing it firmly between both hands and moving it up/down/sideways.If there is movement it may be accompanied by an oil drip.Movement means the bearing,which is only $25, may have damaged the internals which can cost $1800 + labour.At 300k it would not be unusual.

Check behind the front wheels for a mess on the swivel joints.If the mess is there it means the seals have gone and will require a complete strip down of the front axle which costs about $550 which is mainly labour .It has to be done every 100k I think.

Im not trying to turn you off a landcruiser but letting you know they can cost big money to fix if the maintenance is neglected.I bought my 88 73 series mwb for $3500 unlic ,blown clutch ,no brakes and $5000 later Ive got a very nice vehicle with all the good work done,slightly overbudget ,but satisfied.
AnswerID: 37431

Reply By: chrisfrd - Saturday, Nov 15, 2003 at 21:59

Saturday, Nov 15, 2003 at 21:59
Hrm.. I haven't heared a bigger load of clap-trap in all my years as an engineer!

The mounting of bonnet-scoops to vehicles was done back in the yearly 30's as a simple way of forcing air into the engine bay, to cool the engine cylinders. Very early Citroen cars were rear-engine systems and were air-cooled.

What the guy with the GU scoop is trying to do is enact the "Venturi principle", in which, when air travels across an opening at any given angle, a small vacuum is created. In this example, he is trying to "suck" air out of the bonnet. This isn't very effective and you would find that if you put packers under the bonnet hinges and left a gap closer to the windscreen, the effect would be better.

My suggestion is to have the scoop rotated 180 degrees, so that it is forcing air down into the engine bay. As the vehicle is travelling at speed, air is being forced into the scoop and is cooling the engine down on the hot side of the block, presuming that the scoop is mounted on the hot side that is!

A Turbo-charger system, when PROPERLY installed, is a fantastic thing to have. The 1HZ engine is a fantastic candidate for turbo-charging and really shines when a modest boost level is given to it. I have seen club-members with 1HZ troopies, that have a DTS or similar system fitted, that are running 4-6PSI of boost and are getting fantastic power and economy gains from such a system.

Another problem is that getting INSURANCE for it may be a battle, considering that he's only 19 and will get treated like dog bleep by insurance companies.

AnswerID: 37434

Follow Up By: ross - Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 at 02:06

Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 at 02:06
Some engineer you are! It woud take tons of refridgeratrion to cool down a big lump of heat producing metal like a diesel motor unless it has been designed that way with special metals and cooling fins.Force feeding or encouraging a draught of air into an engine bay that wasnt designed for it increases the air pressure inside and inhibits the amount or air that can pass through the radiator core thus increasing heat build up in the coolant .The need for a backward facing fan to allow heat out is a joke,what about the the big hole underneath the motor!
Fact 1- the coolant passing over the cylinder bores and cooled through the radiator is the only way to keep an engine cool if it was designed that way .
Fact 2 -If an engines overheating it can only be resolved by fixing the root cause of the problem
Fact 3 -no engine ran cooler after adding forward or backward facing vents.
Fact 4 -the engine is not overheating on the outside ,but is actually overheating inside around the cylinder bores and causing the oil to thin and wear out the pistons/ rings ect
And one more,if landcruisers and other 4x4s were destined to traverse deserts ect why didnt toyota add them as standard
I got this off someone who specialises in this field and after asking others who do this for a job agreed it was sound advice
FollowupID: 27122

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 at 08:20

Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 at 08:20
Oh My Gents, you both know a lot about this and all the asker was doing is asking, and then armed with a bit of extra info he's off to sort the wheat from the chaff, just like we all do.

Take a breather and a small snifter of Glayva and don't take life too seriously. For my money both have excellent points, both have a few flaws, its not a competition here.Laterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
FollowupID: 27127

Follow Up By: Member - Eric- Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 at 09:31

Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 at 09:31
Well said Bonz , I HATE posts that start with .....Hrm.. I haven't heared a bigger load of clap-trap in all my years as an engineer! .....................

As said by Bonz ,Crisfrd , is happy only because you take time to help with his questions . He isnt here to find the smartest Car dude , and by the way , I always thought the Venturi Affect / Principle . Was when air rushes from a larger diameter to a smaller diameter to increase speed . Venus Bay
FollowupID: 27133

Follow Up By: chrisfrd - Monday, Nov 17, 2003 at 12:22

Monday, Nov 17, 2003 at 12:22
Hey ross... Take time to get correct facts before flaming.

AIR COOLED engines were used in early Citroens, Porsches and VW cars. They worked by having cooling fins built into each bore. Leyland did a similar thing with a diesel engine, but they had a tendancy to detonate. Porsche ran an aircooled 911 until the early 1990's. All Lycomming and Rancor piston engines are STILL aircooled!

We were talking about was engineering princples. Installing a scoop with the vent at 180 degrees to the airflow is similar in principle to the "Venturi effect". This is used in many ways, for example the AIS and altimeter gauges of an aircraft, a vacuum gauge for an engine and such. We are not talking about engine cooling persay. We are talking about engine-bay cooling.

My GUII 3.0 has an additional scoop, (to which I made from low-temp carbon-fibre) that forces air from the high-pressure zone of the bonnet and forces it into the left-hand side of the engine, just above the turbo. This has had a dramatic effect to the engine-bay and engine tempuratures, with the engine running 10 degrees cooler and the engine bay being only 15-20 degrees above ambient.

Wipe the rabbid-foam from your mouth and try again.
FollowupID: 27185

Follow Up By: ross - Monday, Nov 17, 2003 at 16:59

Monday, Nov 17, 2003 at 16:59
Hey chris Go back and read my post properly .I have already stated thats with the exception of engines that are made from special metals and have cooling fins meaning exactly Porsche VW Citroen .I can add a few more such as deutch diesels,oshkosh as well as most motor cycle engines.But its fantasy to think a gentle breeze blowing over 300 kg of dense heat producing cast metal will cool it down .It takes an hour for a sponge cake sitting on the window sill.
I realise now why you are so upset it is because you think I have belittled your effort at building a scoop.
Who flamed who? Who started their post off with the "hrm I havent heard a bigger load of clap trap in all my years as an engineer"and this pearler "wipe the rabid foam from your mouth and try again"
Why dont you take all your evidence and go report me for flaming if you think you have got such a good case .
FollowupID: 27206

Reply By: Phil G - Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 at 00:45

Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 at 00:45
Just to pick up on a minor point mentioned by Ross - the 12H-T is a LOT different to the 2H. It has a totally different cyl head with ceramic valves, its direct injection, so doesn't have glow plugs, has different cooling channels in the block and different pistons, tolerances etc etc. The 12H-T is a much, much better motor than a turbo'd 2H.

Turbo'd 2H's were more prone to overheating especially on Troopies.
AnswerID: 37448

Reply By: Member - DOZER- Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 at 07:34

Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 at 07:34
Hi Brian
The addition of a turbo is a good thing if it is set up to give a small amount of boost to the 2h. Try to get petrol performance from it by boosting 11 psi and it will fail.
The factory t/d is as mentioned earlier, heaps different internally to the 2h, and would be my pick of the two if i had the extra $$ to get it.
The scoop - well i think enough has been said about it .
I hasten to point out you were not saying it has overheated, but asking would the turbo make the motor overheat, and the answer is no/yes
No not if it is set up properly and the cooling system (radiator/waterpump) is in good condition
YES if the turbo is overboosted to get those ellusive extra horses,or if the cooling system is not up to the job. and by the fact that the scoop has been added, it seems like the chances of it having overheated earlier have risen.
MMMmmmm factory turbo 60 series are cheap at the moment.....first model was the 85 hj61
Happy hunting
wheredayathinkwer mike?
AnswerID: 37456

Follow Up By: Member - Karl - Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 at 08:04

Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 at 08:04
I agree with Dozer. Before I got my 80 Series I had '83 Series 60 Diesel with the 2H motor. I wish that I had fitted a turbo to it. It is a good reliable motor but not much in the speed dept. For the price I think it is good value.Everyone is entitled to have an opinion - just make sure that yours is correct.
FollowupID: 27125

Reply By: mudgutz - Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 at 14:41

Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 at 14:41
just a thought .....didnt a turbo just get it intercooled.......maybe the scoops there for the in the gu patrols...why in the hell you would face it backwards though baffles me can you see an intercooler mate..........oh and by the way venturi effect is as the engineer says im afraid that other fellow is wrong.....
AnswerID: 37475

Reply By: brian - Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 at 15:15

Sunday, Nov 16, 2003 at 15:15
Thankyou for the replies i have just checked with aami re insurance advised that nobody will offer comprehensive insurance because the turbo is aftermarket ,so i will have to keep looking.BTW if no turbo i was quoted approx$1745 per year because my son is under 20yo.
AnswerID: 37477

Follow Up By: CHRIS - Monday, Nov 17, 2003 at 08:01

Monday, Nov 17, 2003 at 08:01
I beg to differ as I have a 83 60 series fitted with a aftermarket Turbo and had no problem getting insurance through ALLIANCE.
FollowupID: 27175

Follow Up By: CHRIS - Monday, Nov 17, 2003 at 08:02

Monday, Nov 17, 2003 at 08:02
Sorry should be ALLIANZ.
FollowupID: 27176

Reply By: pathfinder - Monday, Nov 17, 2003 at 13:03

Monday, Nov 17, 2003 at 13:03
there's nothing wrong with bad women and good times and they tend to be cheaper than 4WDs ;)
AnswerID: 37537

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