Decreased Valuation

Submitted: Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 13:12
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Was wondering what people think in regards to the new FJ cruiser and do you think it will hold its value as well as say the prados over time ??? Really like the new Fj cruiser, there a bit of a hate it or love it type of vehicle (I personally like them) and not likely to be available in a turbo diesel. Heaps of aftermarket accesories available as well. I wonder if supply will be an issues like the 150 prados due to what has happened in Japan, prado waiting lists up to early next year ?? Regards Steve
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Reply By: Mick O - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 13:30

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 13:30
You may have already read this but if not, have a look.

ExplorOz Attends Toyota's FJ Cruiser National Media Launch

Cheers Mick

''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 13:44

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 13:44
Yes Mick I did read that, great report, I just come across this, I know its advertising but seeems they had fun doing it
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Reply By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 13:35

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 13:35
Hi Steve,

You have only got to look at the Leyland P76 to see how a bad cosmetic design decision will affect the popularity of a vehicle.

From all reports the P76 was quite a good vehicle but something about its design just did not click with the buying public.

The Prados go well because they look reasonable/good. So did the late GQ patrols and the GU. The 80 series was a better looking vehicle in my opinion than the 100 series but still had heaps of appeal. The 200 series look a little to much like a lot of other makes only bigger, in my opinion. Great mechanics in the 200 but they could have done a lot better with the cosmetics.

But time will tell whether my taste is located in the wrong part of my anatomy. Just a personal perspective. Many will disagree. But I stick by what I said that if someone gave me one I would have to refuse it. On the other hand the mechanical side of it, well what can I say, it's a Toyota and that is worth heaps.

Personally I think if you wanted to ruin your sales figures you could not do better than design the FJ Cruiser as it has been designed
It looks like a hummer look alike but the designer got cold feet half way through. Just a personal opinion.

Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
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Follow Up By: Fab72 - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 18:59

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 18:59
AU Falcon
Ford Taurus
Subaru Vortex...... the list goes on!
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Follow Up By: rumpig - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 19:30

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 19:30
hey Bruce,
not sure they are ruining any sales figures if what i read on LCOOL is correct.

Quoted from someone who was one of the first to receive his FJ Cruiser here in Oz...........

"Local dealer tells me Vic alone is taking orders for 60 a week +, when Toyotas target was 60 a month, for this model.

And on Sat there was 8 available in Vic, all yellow or blue, except 2 brick red ones.

Some colors are an Aug to Xmas delivery time now."
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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 08:44

Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 08:44
Hi Rumpig,

My trouble is I am old school so am biased when it comes to design. When I was a young bloke we were messing around with all sorts of vehicles from the 20s up.
So I have seen, sat in, driven a lot of those vehicles at vintage car rallys and many a hot rod. Used to own a couple of hot rods once.

What I would like to know is how much of that dealers comment is hype and how much is fact.
Dealers will only tell you whatever sells the product. My nephew works for a Toyota dealership and some of the stories about the 200 series would surprise you but they are sworn to secrecy and must not confide in the customers. However Toyota are 150% behind their product so there is nothing to worry about in that regard. If a problem developes with an engine they pluck it out and put in a new crated engine straight from Japan and send the problem back to the lab in Japan for testing to get to the bottom of any problems. That is why I say that at least the FJ is a Toyota.

From what I read on these pages many another manufacturer cannot boast that.

But, time will tell with the FJ.

A good way to increase sales is to limit supply. Take the early valiants back in the late 60s, waiting list was a about a year initially, according to some reports I had at the time and so everybody wanted one because if the waiting list is that long they must be good.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Cheers, Bruce
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Reply By: Member - Andrew L (WA) - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 14:20

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 14:20
For the OZ model Toyota have release a bulletin that imposes a 20 kG limit on accessories to front of vehicle - ie no bullbar or under bonnet second battery. Petrol only. 70L fuel tank. Love it or hate it styling. I very much doubt they will hold their value well.

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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 09:59

Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 09:59
That bullbar limit bulletin is Toyota being Toyota.

ARB have been making bullbars for 5 years for the FJ in the US and no similar limit exists in the US. It is a Prado Chassis after all. Watch that 20Kg limit get removed as soon as the Toyota branded Bullbars are ready for sale,


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Reply By: Capt. Wrongway - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 14:40

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 14:40
It may be a bit early to form opinions & views on a vehicle that's not yet released to the Australian market. If I were to make an uninformed comment, I'd be inclined to think that they may out-sell the current 150 model. I bought the last 09 120 model because I didn't like all the electronic gadgets and the interior of the 150. The FJ may be just thing for like minded people. Who knows ... yet.
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 15:22

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 15:22
Hi Capt, they certainly are available to view to the public, just been to Penrith Toyota and looked at one, they have two in stock at the moment but as demos only, Cant give an time/date on delivery so he is going to ring me back with one when he finds out. Still not sure I like the rear cargo door opening the oposite way to the prado ?? Quit functional inside and suprisingly comfortable............150 is way out of my price range anyway and I do like the flares on the older 120. few friends have them (150's) (mate got the last one 2 weeks ago) had no choice in colour or he had to wait untill next delivery which might not be untill feb next year so he ended up with blue, he did want white lol big difference. I dont mind the electronic things I think its some thing we are just going to have to get used to as its the way they are all going, I remember my old man saying that when they bought out fuel injection and when my mum wanted a fully automatic washing machine, he was still going to buy her one of the older ones that you had to put the wet clothes from one side to the other to spin (twin tub I think they called them from memory), the look from her was enough for him to get the fully auto one lol.................
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Reply By: Axle - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 15:12

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 15:12
G/Day Steve
I think it will be the same old Toyo scenario , If you wan't it pay the Bucks!!, which is usually at the high ....If they had made the FJ a true hose out mechanically tough no frills what so ever 4WD,at a base price then they would have a vehicle for everyone, IMHO the Koreans will have a large wagon of this nature before to much longer.

Cheers Axle
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Reply By: Crackles - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 17:30

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 17:30
Gaday Steve. I'd suggest they will hold their value very well. The initial stock are almost sold out other than a few of the odd colour ones & demo's. Already the wait on new orders is towards the end of the year. Love or hate the look they will likely become a classic car & Aussie quota limits will ensure 2nd hand prices stay high. Already there was a case of one being sold for several thousand dollars more 2nd hand than the original purchase price just to get the color they wanted without the wait.
Really for what you get the price is half reasonable for a Toyota. After having an extended drive in one I must say on the road they excellent & with a few mods will be more than capable off. Everywhere we went it was a real head turner with people often taking photo's. Not sure if it was the car or the 35" tyres :-)

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Follow Up By: - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 18:25

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 18:25
So is it better than your Jeep?
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 19:12

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 19:12
Yes, but don't tell him. His head is already too big as it is ;-)
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Reply By: Dereki - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 17:43

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 17:43
I have seen a few already where I live and a work colleague said they had a look at them a week ago and all the dealers he spoke to have already sold their quotas.

If that is any indication.

AnswerID: 452761

Reply By: Member - Chris & Debbie (QLD) - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 17:59

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 17:59
You would have to wonder if they will keep their value if the following that was posted on another forum is true.

I have in my hand an Australian Toyota Dealer Bulletin, dated Dec 23rd 2010 which says -

"Please be advised that the FJ Chief Engineer and TMC Technical Centre have imposed a strict mass limit of 20kg to the front of the FJ Cruiser to be launched in 2011.
In doing so, neither steel nor alloy bull bar can be developed within this mass constraint.
Furthermore, aftermarket bull bars will not be able to comply with this mass criteria, so should not be fitted in line with TMC's direction."

So there you have it, guys. This is no doubt Toyotas response to the long list of body structure failures that this vehicle has experienced in the USA. Just google "FJ Cruiser fenders cracking" and you will see what I mean. It's a bit like the Prado 120 inner guards cracking, but ten times worse! So instead of fixing the problem (and they have had some years to do it) Toyota quietly slip this bulletin to their Dealer Principals.

Basically, the chassis flexes so much around the front body mounts that it fatigues the body shell around the inner guard panels, and they split. So by imposing this 20kg limit, Toyota have absolved themselves of many warranty issues that may arise in future. So if you fit a bull bar, or even an extra battery, don't even think about going to your Toyota Dealer with your warranty book when the front guards start falling apart.

Toyota have lost their way, and this vehicle does not deserve to carry the name of the FJ.

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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 18:39

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 18:39
Hi there Chris, there is a spot under the bonnet on drivers side for another battery already has plate there just the power steer reservoir and an aircon pipe need to be relocated (same as 150 V6) and a clamp for the battery same as my old 90 diesel. Very comfortable and the windscreen feels a mile from your scone, interesting point about the guards/body cracking will have a search after, only thing if you fit a dual battery then you wont be able to fit up a nudge bar for lights or anything due to weight. Looks like it has dual breathers already under bonnet, I presume they are for both diffs ?? They had no brochures on them yet.Rear Cargo area is no where near the prado (120) but there is room under the rear for another tank, I would say roughly 80L possible.They are not full time 4wd (I thought they were) same transfer as hilux (salesman told me). 2 month wait for delivery (roughly) probably till you put your order in and they have your deposit then it will change ?? I like the fact you can turn all the electronic aids off if you want including traction control, but also comes standard with rear diff lock............
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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 09:55

Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 09:55
Hi Chris,
So could a person deduce from this that once again a product which has failed in one market overseas is about to be dumped onto the Australian market.

Would not surprise me if that was the case.

Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: Member - Chris & Debbie (QLD) - Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 12:55

Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 12:55
Personally I put it down to the rediculous anti-pollution laws. New pollution targets are continuing to be placed on the auto industry that technology cannot advance fast enough for. One way to to comply is reduce weight, the FJ is around 250kg lighter than the Prado, how did they gain this weight reduction? Chassis?
A lot of people also carry on about the electronics, common rail high pressure fuel systems, high rev'ing engines etc. all of which reduces long term servicablility. All this is to meet unrealistic pollution targets that again, technology has not advanced enough for. Take the 3.0lt Nissan engine, contrary to popular belief these are a very good reliable engine (discounting the 2000 model), the problem is/was with the computer program trying to keep up with emission laws.
Australia is normally one or two Euro standards behind the latest, which allows manufactures to dump older stock or older technology diesel engines which would not be accepted in other counties. This also puts the latest engines released in Australia, that comply to the latest Euro standards, at a disadvantage compared to engines which are only released in Australia using older technology therefore more durable.
Is the D4D Euro 6 compliant? this may be why a diesel FJ will not be released, and Nissan are struggling to realease a diesel Patrol, as it is not worth the expense of developing Euro 6 compliant diesel 4x4's that would only sell on a very limited Austalian Market. How much longer will Toyota be able to keep the V8 cruiser viable before it needs to comply with the latest Euro standards?
My thoughts anyway
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Reply By: rocco2010 - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 18:26

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 18:26

Whatever we say about toyota (and I don't own one) they know how to identify a market and sell to it. Most serious judges don't rate cars like corolla and camry as best in their class but they sell 'em like hotcakes. Even the diehard fans will acknowledge that they have taken the prices on hilux, prado and landcruiser a bit beyond a fair thing but they sell as many as they can get here, helped of course by their willingness to discount to fleets. .

My view on the FJ (again I will never own one) is that it is marketing exercise. it has been around in the US for yonks and maybe somebody saw an opportunity to fill a niche in Australia with some excess production. maybe the state of the Aussie dollar helps the business case too. They obviously generate a bit of showroon traffic .

I reckon they are more likely to be seen on the Gold Coast nightclub strip dressed up with 22inch shiny mags and 40 profile tyres and a doof-doof sound system than out on a gravel road in outback Queensland. Bit like that pimped up Prado that shows up on forums occasionally. I know they are essentially Prado mechanicals and will be very good offroad but I wonder about their practicality as a serious tourer with restricted rear acess.

But if it presses your buttons go for it. As my old dad once said: never criticise a bloke for his choice of wife or car. It is a very personal decision and we may not know all the circumstances!


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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 18:56

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 18:56
Hi Rocco, yeah not sure they will be built for touring like we do prados ?? Cargo area visually seems alot smaller then when I had the 120 next to it, but may be deceiving ?? Been petrol will certainly limit the distance between fuel stops, but possibly with a 2nd tank might be a different story. Couldnt find anything on a duel tank for them today on google. They are definately better on fuel then even the current prado, which I would put down to been 2 wheel drive instead of AWD. Your probably right about been pimped up like a baby hummer. lol
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Follow Up By: rocco2010 - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 19:12

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 19:12
Gidday kimba

sounds like you are keen ... and I'll bet your wife is a good sort too!

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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 21:12

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 21:12
Hi there rocco, whats my wife go to do with what I drive ??
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Follow Up By: rocco2010 - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 22:24

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 22:24

In my experience a wife has everything to do with what car a man drives, particularly the colour! . Obviously you are a better judge than me of (a) women and (b) cars which is why I don't have either (a) a wife or (b) a Toyota!

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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 23:00

Friday, Apr 29, 2011 at 23:00
LOL Rocco, na my wife's pretty easy going (she must be I have had in the vicinity of 50 cars no exaggeration, only 7 4wd's 2 bikes the rest whatever took my fancy at the time, been happily married for 12 years) I'm only 42. She reckons we would have paid the house off by now with the amount of $$ we have spent on cars and RTA transfer fees. (she's probably right but I wont tell her that), She pretty much leaves it up to me when it comes to buying for her as well. I sold the commodore we bought new when it was 5 years old and come home with a new Toyota for her she new nothing about it, happened over 2 days, she missed the commodore/power (VX S pack supercharged) but didn't miss the fact of where she was allowed to park it (lowered,mags blah blah blah) didnt have one dent in it when we sold it, must have rubbed off as she still parks next to poles etc when in car parks and parks on the uphill side of any car park that is sloped so no dents from runaway trolleys and doesn't park next to cars with baby seats even though we have one LOL BUT, BIG BUT she still cant understand how I can get a nice 4wd then take it off road and scratch down the side of it and think nothing of it ?????? that has her stumped. She just informed me there will be no FJ cruiser as she is due for an update before I have another one lol. She wants an Toyota Aurion TRD next (told her it will be 2nd hand as they don't make them new any more, she said that's fine) Told her unless its white there wont be one (don't think they made them in white lol).....................
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Reply By: vk1dx - Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 10:13

Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 10:13
Sorry to the fans but I have two things I do not like about it.

It looks like its made from plastic. To me this is a big loss as the FJ "look" was what a working 4WD was all about. Secondly - No diesel option. An even bigger loss.

No for me.

AnswerID: 452816

Follow Up By: Crackles - Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 11:57

Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 11:57
So the plastic roof of the original FJ didn't bother you Phil but the plastic guards on the new model do? After owning a Wrangler for a while now all I can say is real 4x4's should have plastic guards as if you dint or scratch them they can be repaired easily or replaced for a fraction of the cost of panel beating. (Leave the metalic painted guards to the soft roaders)
As for the diesel it certainly would be nice to have that option but doubt Toyota were really marketing this vehicle towards "old school" drivers with a perception that still think a decent four wheel drive must be diesel, manual, leaf sprung & running split rims :-)) I suppose when this FJ is getting real life fuel figures just 1 Litre per 100 more than many diesels then some may just pay that to get a 200kw engine that will have a cheaper initial purchase price.
This vehicle certainly is challenging the stereotype of what a 4x4 should be.
Cheers Craig.............
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 12:31

Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 12:31
I don't know a lot about the FJ so I cannot comment about the plastic roof. Maybe I even have my cars screwed up. Remember I am only new to modern 4WD. Had a lot of years in 2wd with family commitments etc. ie NO MONEY.

But I don't like the plastic look whether it's on a 4WD or a billycart. Too much like a model toy car look for us. The rearward section looks like an add-on. An afterthought.

Like tyre wear, fuel consumption is not at the top of my list. That aside; I just remember what I heard as I passed a bloke standing in the middle of Nolans on our trip to Cape York. He and a few mates had trouble getting their petrol fuelled cars through. He said "Bloody diesels" just as we ambled past him. I am also guessing they had petrol. We pulled two out of five out.

Just an opinion mate. And I agree it is "challenging the stereotype of what a 4x4 should be". A risky move.

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Reply By: Pebble - Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 11:31

Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 11:31
If you look around you will see an increasing number of Jeep Wranglers on the road, especially since the unlimited 4 door has come out. I think that is the market share Toyota would be aiming for.
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 12:08

Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 12:08
Funny you should say that Pebb as on the Jeep Forum they are bagging out on it big time yet with over 60 replies & 1500 views in just a few days there is certainly alot of underlying intrest. I think you're right in that Toyota are attracting young new owners like Jeep do who will get attached to the brand.
Cheers Craig...........
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Follow Up By: Pebble - Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 12:48

Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 12:48
Yes and I think they are the sort of vehicles that fill the gap between the SUV and a big 4x4 very nicely and especially with the younger owners.

We do own a Wrangler which we brought last year, but my Husband is a Toyota man thorough and through (or was??? :D). We've had a troopy, 80 series, several utes. However as you know that FJ is very polarising and we're both in the "dislike" camp even if it is based a lot on looks.
In a lot of ways the Jeep is more Toyota like than even the new FJ (in a traditional squarish looks and agricultural feel kind of sense).

When we brought the Wrangler we were replacing a 79 series ute for a more family friendly fourby (have 2 kids). If Toyota did have a vehicle that was indeed like the old FJ maybe with some updated tech and seats for 4 / 5 then I'm sure it would have been our next car (providing it was affordable enough too).

Yeah the Wrangler isn't perfect either, it seems a man always wants "more power" lol.

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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 19:58

Saturday, Apr 30, 2011 at 19:58
Looks like a nice toy.........but with a reliable 200Kw motor, a rear locking diff, traction control, cruise control, 5 speed auto and a million aftermarket accessories, at least, on paper, it sounds like a great combo.

I'm a diesel fanatic but one day I might get tempted into one of these.
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