New Alcohol reform laws heading for the NT

Submitted: Friday, May 06, 2011 at 22:46
ThreadID: 86113 Views:4111 Replies:10 FollowUps:15
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Some time ago i "mentioned" about a system whereby a card ID system is needed to purchase Alcohol as it is the ONLY way that the problem can be controled and regulated ......
Soon the NT is about to introduce laws to require you to have a "permit" to buy and consume and yes you will all throw up your arms and cry it is not fair but.....
I very short terms it will be the same as a drivers licence, if you dont screw up then you are free to buy and drink what you like, all you need to do is produce your "alcohol ID card", if you do screw up it will be taken away from you and you can not purchase any, you can not get caught drinking any and if someone gives you some THEY will lose theres ....

So how does it affect us as travellers and tourists ?????
If you have been to the NT, and now other states by the way, it is getting pathetic if you are a honest drinker and just want to buy some, you get treated like a crim, you are restricted when you can buy it and the amounts you buy, even if you plan not to drink it all at one time but consume it in moderation over the next few weeks of your trip .... and to cap it off YOU have never broken any laws relating to Alcohol ....

I dont know the details yet but i hope they do it right, i for one would gladly pay a fee to be able to walk into a shop and buy what i need and go out without being treated the same as a complete drunk that should be stopped but as the law stands he still can buy it, as long as he "looks" well enough to buy it...
It WILL stop the grog runners ...
It will stop the cronic drinkers ....
It will work ..

Fingers crossed it works..
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Reply By: SIF4X4 - Friday, May 06, 2011 at 23:20

Friday, May 06, 2011 at 23:20
For the past few years you have had to show your drivers licence to buy alcohol in Alice Springs.

None of any measures have worked in Alice...there is always a way around it.

The only way to curb overuse is to ban it totallly...but then business and government revenue would fall off the end of the table

It doesn't affect me as I have slowly but surely cut down on alcohol intake over the past year and have been drinking water or cordials. Apart from some socialising over Easter I haven't had a drop since. I am confident that I will eventually give it up altogether. I feel sorry for those people who are in such a rut that they 'have' to have drink in the evenings. Been there done that.

AnswerID: 453502

Follow Up By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 07:55

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 07:55
** You feel sorry for those people who are in such a rut they 'have' to have a drink in the evenings.**

What's wrong with having a glass of Wine to compliment a Meal or a couple of Ales after a hard days work??,

The majority of drinkers aren't Alcoholics that can't exist with out drinking 24/7.

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Follow Up By: Rockape - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 10:38

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 10:38
thanks for feeling sorry for me, I appreciate that. You are going to have to feel sorry for me a lot of times so could you send sorry's in bulk please.

1 bottle of wine last night watching the footy and have to blow zero in the morning or I lose my job.

Have a nice day and here is a thought for you
"You were not put on this earth to live up to my expectations and I was not put on this earth to live up to yours"

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Follow Up By: Axle - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 19:01

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 19:01
G/Day SIF4x4.

My F/Inlaw Drank Ten Schooners of beer Every Night for 50yrs of his working life, Was regarded in his field as one of the best in the country!,(Not the best drinker ), ....As for being in a rut!, Maybe you might have been.. You have made a statement that might be right in some instances, but not all, so a stupid thing to say on a forum.

Cheers Axle.
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Reply By: Hairy (WA) - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 04:20

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 04:20
AnswerID: 453504

Follow Up By: Rockape - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 10:40

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 10:40
Calm down Hairy,
all is ok, don't you remember you moved to WA.

Have a good one
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Reply By: Effie C (Ex NT now ACT) - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 07:56

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 07:56
As Hairy and SIF4X4 can testify it does not work,

I have stood in line at Woolies in Alice whilst the person in front of me went through her multiple ID's with the seller until the scanner would accept one to enable her to buy her grog (the rest of her "family" were waiting outside the door to get the grog)

The US tried to "ban" grog but the bootleggers made a fortune out of that, unfortunately no much it upsets the bleeding hearts who have never lived with the problem blanket laws do not work in this case and it will have to come down to laws which discriminate against some people for their own good
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Follow Up By: 2000 Red Rodeo - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 12:08

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 12:08
The problem is not so much the laws. It is more about the lack of policing the laws that we already have.

It is basically the standard political game they play these days. Pass a law to make it look like you are doing something. But without action nothing changes.

For example it is against the law for someone under the age of 18 to drink alcohol. Yet how many teenage parties is alcohol available. When the police turn up nothing happens yet it is obvious the law is being broken.

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Reply By: Member - lyndon NT - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 08:53

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 08:53
I guess something has to be tried, but I agree it either won’t work or the benefits will be minimal or short lasting. Sadly for the race of people we are referring to here, if you remove grog it will be dope, stop the dope it will be petrol, bring in opal it will be Carva or glue etc etc, or they will just move to major town like has happened in Darwin and there will always be someone willing to sell them something. Very hard to help people who won’t help themselves. I WILL BE VERY HAPPY TO BE PROVED WRONG!

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Follow Up By: BarryR1 - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 09:48

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 09:48
Unfortunately the die has been cast in a lot of these areas due to the actions of past Governments. Now that the genie is out of the bottle, it’s very hard to put back in. While it might seem draconian in approach, the mould has to be broken if the kids are to be protected now and the future generations given any hope. This will also help stop those unscrupulous individuals who take advantage of the situation to run grog and gunja into the communities. You’ll usually find that the majority of these are white fellas who hide out in the communities (usually having established their contacts while doing a bit of jail time). Have a look at the work that Noel Pearson has been doing in the Cape York communities. There they consider the generations of the past 30 years are lost but they are working to save the future by strictly controlling the grog. I hope you can be proved wrong Lyndon for eveyones sake.


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Reply By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 14:01

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 14:01
Firstly i don't want this to be based on "politics", i post it in reply to many posts in the past about trying to buy wine and other drinks in the NT and what a pain in the butt it is for us the "traveller" .... also how it is presently affecting the tourism trade in Alice Spring at the moment is getting serious...

The reply's are interesting and also show first hand how it affects practically everyone, even those that cant see any point in having a glass of wine every night it still affect them, like it or not..
All would have to admit the system as it stands is NOT working, banning it completely wont work either, why does Alice springs have BIG problems at the moment, the community's in a 600klm radius have banned it so the chronic alcoholics move location and now camping in Alice simply because they still can buy it .......
Personally i would love it to be banned completely in the whole of the NT, just imagine that, WA, QLD and the southern states would get flooded with all the "bad" people and the NT would be a safe, quite and awesome place to visit, Adelaide are you ready for 10,000 extra drunks because you will get them, they already have "fled" to you to get away from fighting, problem is it was the problem that moved down to you, not away from the community .....

One example system in place at the moment is as follows, i will base it as if i lived in Alice Springs:
I write to the Liquor Board licensing department requesting a Liquor permit to "buy & consume" ..
They first up run my name through there system to see if any convictions are recorded against me relating to Alchole... if any MAJOR (grog running/drink driving ect) ones are found it is simply rejected and placed on record that i applied so in 3 years time i can re-apply and if nothing comes up i will get to the next step..
The approved application is sent to the nearest Police Station of where you residential address is for them to check and give approval, again if any offences are found relating to grog it is treated the same as above, if ok then they also sign it and send it back to you with copys kept...
I get it in the mail, i take it to THAT police station, they cross reference it to there own records and if ok i pay a fee and i get a "passport" style photo taken that is recorded on a data base and also printed onto a plastic card, the full name, address and lic number are also printed on it (exactly the same as a drivers lic) and it has a magnetic strip on the back that is encoded with all the data also ....
I am then Licensed to buy & consume Alcohol at any "designated" premises or location, noting that your home address becomes your "designated" location for a card holder to consume and store it...
I go to a bottle shop and the door, yes the door, has a simple card swipe, it wont open until an approved card is swiped, i go and buy what i want and how much i want and walk to the counter, i produce and "flash" my card so the point of sale can quickly identify it is me and card is valid, no writing down anything, all products are then scanned and before the transaction can be finalised (as per normal) you then have to swipe your "grog" card, quick and simple swipe, first the system checks it is "valid" and then the till records that YOU have purchased what you have against your name, NO writing down nothing anymore, it takes less than one second......
You then drive home and drink it, if you get pulled up with it just flash the card and you keep it, no card and you lose it on the spot, simple as that...
At home your mate comes around, he has a card he can drink with you at home or at ANY place that is "designated", if your mate does NOT have a card you can NOT give him any or can NOT drink it at his place, if you get caught giving someone that is not a card holder then YOU lose yours....
Functions/places that have a licence will be exactly the same as now, you can go to it card or not but can NOT take it away from it, only consume it on the premises....
Designated areas will be the same, except you must have a card and if caught without it will lose all grog on the spot...

Now it will have it's critics as everything does but tell me that wont work ... there are no realistic option left now...

Cheers and keep the replys nice please..

AnswerID: 453525

Follow Up By: SIF4X4 - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 14:33

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 14:33
Me again.....................

We are already being perceived of having a Nanny State (the whole of the country, that is) mentality. We are totally over-governed with 3 tiers of government and a large public service. What you are proposing is a tad draconian. A completely new Department of Prohibition will have to be established and funded.

Some people drink alcohol in excess because they like it.
Some drink alcohol in excess because for them its a way of escape from whatever
Some drink alcohol in excess because they are alcoholics and its a disease with them

Prohibition will only turn alcoholics to other substances and then we will need to create another Department...........

Education, full employment and more social programs might lessen the impact alcoholics have on our society.

Meanwhile the Pubs and outlets selling alcohol laugh all the way to the bank with no community responsibility on their part

I have alcoholic friends and family...............I still feel sorry for them.........

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Follow Up By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 15:02

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 15:02
I assume you still live in Alice so you know how bad it is,
The pubs and clubs do have a hugh "social responsibility" and they are at the moment paying dearly for it with the existing system, we lived up the Tanimi at Nyirripi so do know the problems and reasons for them, we have also lived on many other communitys since and now, at the moment we have to drive 200klms to buy beer, light beer is all we can buy and 2 cartons only of it, we drink responsibly, an alchoholic can walk in and buy rum and beer because he "walks" in, he will drink some and then get a lift back here with it, drink it all and start problems, get arrested, walk out of the cop shop and go back and buy some more and it all starts again until he gets locked up...... simply it does not work and will not work with the present systems in place, they by the way police it very well here and the place we get it from does the absolute best they can .... they have a life and bussiness to run so we cant really point the finger at them, we can blame petrol stations for selling fuel that contributed to an accident but we dont do we ...
Live on and in the communitys and then tell me of a better way to do it and i will be happy ... we can blame all around us and it wont do much..
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Follow Up By: Member - Steve M1 - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 18:36

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 18:36
The Good old days are gone from the N.T. it seems
Years ago, When one who was working in Tamami region, could join the local cricket club, give a donation to the club and recieve a nice cold beer. Then drive to Wave Hill for more cricket games with wooden seagulls on oval.
I have forgotten the name of Sergant of NT police in the area but thanks again for the cold drinks.

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Reply By: Gone Bush (WA) - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 14:26

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 14:26
A system that punishes the majority, because a minority cannot cope and authorities will not apply existing laws, will never succeed.

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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 18:10

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 18:10
Now now Gone Bush surely you can't be suggesting that just because laws can't protect us from each other there is no hope of laws protecting us from ourselves.
Watching an open forum/discussion group on TV about the effects of depression on the comunity in general. Apparently you can not be prosecuted for commiting suicide but it is illegal to attempt it. Sad ay.

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Reply By: Bigfish - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 14:53

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 14:53
Have lived in Gove for 16 years. Been to every community in Arnhem land , Alice Springs region. Laws are a joke. In Gove if one of the local aboriginies enters onto your property, helps himself to your beerfridge and runs off with your drinks, gets caught....YOU lose you alcohol licence. He gets no charges, has a free drink and nothing! You have to suffer the aftershock of a trespass, theft and the lose your licence. Do-gooders have a lot to answer for. Sick and tired of the minority groups over-riding the majority.
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Follow Up By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 15:17

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 15:17
Yep, i have lived in Maningrida and in the Gulf, i know it sux and you are right, the laws suck big time, and when he does get charged you and me pay for it and he is back on the streets buying it again and he can NOT be stopped buying it .... if he had to comply with what i proposed he would be fined for consumption without a licence ....

This system is much the same as what is in place at Groote, have you been there, you can not even get into the bottle shop or rec club without a card ... well it used to be a few years ago anyway ....
And some will say !!!
Groote has problems still and why ?? when we lived "near" there but our locals used to charter a plane and fly to Gove, buy the grog and fly back and then boat it to Groote .....

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Reply By: Bigfish - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 16:15

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 16:15
Yes , been to Groote many times. Once again you are made to feel like a criminal. I cannot believe that in this day and age people are still not held accountable for your actions because of your skin colour. Have seen many millions of dollars wasted with no accountability or responsibility. The honest hard working, tax paying white fella is a fool. He is kicked from corner post to corner post by every govt. department. These scumbags who smash shop windows, defecate in streets, bash their wives, rob the hotels and pay no taxes are holding the rest of us to ransom. Black , brown, yellow or white, I dont care! If you are living and being supported ny a community then you must live by community laws.

The diggers of old would turn in their graves to see what a namby-pamby country of politically correct idiots we have turned into. Sorry for the rant but I am so frustrated at the lack of reponsibility people take.
AnswerID: 453531

Follow Up By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 16:23

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 16:23
A quote you would like >>>>

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy
out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another
person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to
anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody
else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work
because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other
half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is
going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of
the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."*

I know how you feel, i live in the thick of it here.. i just want it sorted as after 10 years of dealing with what you discribe i have had a gutful as well ..
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 17:37

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 17:37
I wonder if there is anything in this ill conceived law to prevent the purchase and transport of home brew kits. These are not strictly speaking alcohol until after the brewing process is complete. Much like a home still, yes I think it may be illegal to knock up your own spirits but fruit, sugar and water by themselves are not illegal AFAIK.
Anyhow after many and varied tests my GP tells me my stomach problems may just be partly attributible to excessive alcohol consumption over many years. So it looks like I will have to stay off the grog from now on. I wish someone had made it illegal for me to buy alcohol when I was in my late teens.
Hang WAS illegal to drink before I turned 21 back then......Hmmm I wonder what went wrong.........the law was in place, why didn't it protect me

Cheers (and no beers)

AnswerID: 453538

Follow Up By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 19:29

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 19:29
In most of the communitys that are semi dry or dry it is illegal to own or be found with a home brew kit or any part or item that could be linked to the production of home brew, that incluides even yeast, some communitys dont sell bread yeast for that reason ...... and if caught with it you get fined, in some cases if caught with it in your car you lose the car as well ...
It is all available on the web ... and it is enforced as best as it is possible but yep it still is rife ....
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Reply By: Bigfish - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 20:07

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 20:07
You can outlaw grog as much as you want, but it wont work. Witnessed a group of aboriginals get a 20 litre old flour drum, 4 large bottles of raspberry cordial, 4kg of sugar and some packets of yeast. They had left it for about 2 hours and were scoffing it down as if there was no tomorrow. No alcohol buzz, but the sugar hit certainly had an effect. Another point about stopping many of the community people from drinking is the extra money that they will spend by having to drink ina licenced place. Say a 30 pack of 4xxxx gold is $50.00 Because they cant buy a slab between say 3 blokes (10 cans each), they have to buy at pub over the bar. At $4.20 a pot they then would be spending close to $50.00 anyway on grog. However thats $50.00 each, not $50.00 between 3. The publican is laughing all the way to the bank and the drinkers families go hungry for another day. Where is the sense? You will also notice that the vast majority of the heavy drinkers stick to vic bitter or melbourne. Both heavy beers. Why not totally ban these for sale in known trouble areas. Mid strength and light beer only. Banning grog totally wont happen. Too many people making too much money!
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Follow Up By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 22:53

Saturday, May 07, 2011 at 22:53
correct... banning, outlawing and limiting it accross the board does not work, we/you/everyone knows that, i also have seen all sorts of home brew methods, when yeast was not available they used bread to start it, cordial, fruit juice and all sorts of things ....
I live right in a place where it is "banned" (heavy) and you will trip over the empty bottles of rum at the tip and always see heavy empty beer cans, Mornington Island is totally dry (banned) and you can not even drive there yet it still gets in ....... many communitys are total bans, even the "white" people are NOT allowed to bring it in, hence all the problems in the bigger citys as the cronics have moved in..
With the "money" side and what they spend, the "intervention" did a lot of good in that area, they get 50% placed in an account and it is a "green" card called the "basic" card, you can NOT buy tobacco products, grog or porn with it and you can NOT withdraw cash from it ....... and it actually works, many hate it for that very reason but it works, speak to any of the older women and they love it as at last they have money each week for the family food, yep dad drinks the rest in Alice with the cash but at least half is now spent on food...
Everyone said Opal fuel would not work, i have watched sniffers pour it in a foam cup and burn it to try to get high, that "trying" lasted for a few years and now there is a 70% reduction of sniffing on those communitys and again they have moved to the citys ...
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Follow Up By: Hairy (WA) - Sunday, May 08, 2011 at 16:11

Sunday, May 08, 2011 at 16:11
A big trouble in Alice now is breakins........they are breaking into clubs and pubs to steal grog and bashing people for money! Dont believe the stats, crime and anti social behaviour has got out of control since all the "new lasw" have been brought in. It just doesnt work.
The way I see it......If you dont have a job and earn your own money, you dont drink. Get a job and pay for your own grog and you wont have the time to sit around and drink all day?

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