4x4 Licence

Submitted: Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 at 22:01
ThreadID: 8613 Views:1823 Replies:14 FollowUps:21
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I had the opportunity today , to listen to a veriety of poli's about why 4x4 drivers should get a licence ..........

After listening for a while to there reasons , I must say I agree with them now ...

The main reason I agree , is because once we all get a licence , our 4x4's will shrink to the size of Mini's , and we wont block people's views anymore . Another good reason is because our vehicles will become softer , Foam actually , and we wont even dint other cars . Some Semi's will turn to glass , and we will be able to see straight through them .
We are a terible breed of people us 4x4 owners , is what I realised today . We all turn up to street drags on Friday night . Speed in side streets with our boosted turbo chargers and nitro burners , we hang out at car washes in the middle of the night . We all have removed out cats and fitted 12" exaust pipes ........
What ! thats not us????? ok thats the Jap crap hair drier vehicles .

Sorry about the drible guys, still upset with the clowns i spoke with today , had to write my 10 cents worth

Venus Bay
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Reply By: Jay - Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 at 22:39

Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 at 22:39
Amen.
AnswerID: 37741

Reply By: Member - Toonfish - Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 at 22:42

Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 at 22:42
why listen to a poly we put them there to listen to us???????1999 NISSAN NAVARA DUALCAB
DIESEL 3.2 & SPRINGY CARLTON TOY
2 awestruck kids (dads driving!)
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Follow Up By: Stuart - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 07:45

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 07:45
Toonfish,
This may seem to be a stupid question, but what is that picture of?
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Follow Up By: Member -BJ (Sydney) - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 15:32

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 15:32
It's a sushi fishRegards Bob
Where to next
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Follow Up By: Member - Eric- Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 18:34

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 18:34
Stuart , did Kim get his car fixed ?Venus Bay
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 20:30

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 20:30
Its Nemo of Finding Nemo fame sushi'd by the talented ToonfishLaterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 at 22:43

Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 at 22:43
The sad thing is Mr Idiot public sees it as good...

as long as the government make changes Mr Idiot thinks they are always for gOod.

reminds me of the simpsons, where one says something they all cheer... MONORAIL MONORAIL MONORAIL..
AnswerID: 37744

Reply By: Big Trev - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 09:05

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 09:05
I think this needs a Dick Johnson quote:

"Don't take high performance cars (4X4'S) off the road...........Take under-performing drivers off the road instead"
AnswerID: 37777

Reply By: Rob from Cairns Offroad Training & Tours - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 09:08

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 09:08
As a Nationally Recognised 4wd Driver Trainer I feel there may be merit in a 4WD licence. Holders of such a licence may be given permission to travel into National Parks and other areas previously closed to them. They may also be given reduced insurance premiums. On another note, your L\Cruiser\Patrol is over twice as heavy as a conventional car and therefore takes more competence and experience to drive particularly on wet roads or loose surfaces. Like a truck or bus licence a 4WD licence could be an upgrade of your origional licence and would be issued after haveing proven your capabilities and knowledge of your vehicles abilities on a variety of offroad conditions. I drive 4WD tour coaches to Cape Tribulation during our tourist season and I could write a book about the things I see suposedly experienced people do on the Bloomfield Track. We also have several serious accidents here every year with inexperienced people,
patricularly overseas tourists in hire 4WDs. A licence proving ability would greatly reduce these. Cheers Rob
AnswerID: 37778

Follow Up By: Matt (W.A.) - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 09:46

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 09:46
Rob,
So why not make it law for "P" Platers to go through the same sort of Licensing? When they get their Licence at present any 17years and 9month old can pass their "P" plate test and hop straight into a Super Powerful V8 or Turbo Charged 4x4 Pocket rocket I see far more Idiots on the road driving V8 Sedans/Pocket Rockets around than I do 4wd's make the licensing the same as it is for Motorbikes?? Nothing over 2.0L or turbocharged whilst on “P” Plates?

The above is my own personal opinion.

Cheers
Keep It On The Rough Stuff

Matt (W.A.)
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Follow Up By: Member - Glenn(VIC) - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 10:53

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 10:53
Matt,

I couldn't agree with you more. With cars becoming more powerful and faster, why are young driver allowed to purchase/drive these vehicles? Young drivers are involved in more accidents than anyone else, and speed is the cause of the majority. Why not have restrictions similar to motorbikes so under 25s cannot purchase powerful, fast cars. At least then you could tell a younger driver as they putt putt by in their little hatchbacks.Just Do It!

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Follow Up By: andyc - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 11:03

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 11:03
I have to agree with Matt on this one.

How many drivers 4WD or otherwise could write a book on the completely stupid stunts that we see on the bitumen, be they P platers or supposedly experienced drivers. We have thousands of deaths on the road - surely funding spent setting up a restrictive 4WD licensing system would be better spent on road safety?

I can't see the tourist industry backing restrictions on 4WD hire by overseas tourists. Unless of course you are in the 4WD tour coach business. Much as I detest the Britz etc. 4WD campers that plague offroad WA at speed; at least they are bring in plently of deutchmarks, sorry euros, to our economy.

Many insurance companies are shy of the off-road aspects of the 4WD, some do it, but I cannot see reduced premiums when most companies when it comes to losing your vehicle on the beach would leave you in the lurch.

My 2 cents worth...

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Follow Up By: Member - Bradley- Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 11:36

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 11:36
I think the majority of the problem lies in the fact that if you can drive around the block at 60k and perform either a three point turn or a handbrake start and sort of reverse park , then you are granted a license. The basic driver training should include a defensive course at a DECA style facility over the space of a week, Honda do this with their HART motorcycle centres and it works well.

One evening i was out on the town in melb and got a taxi from the city to essendon, the driver was a nice polite african guy who didn't seem at all comfortable on the road, so as i was chatting i asked him how long he had been driving a cab - he had been in aus for 1 month, total time driving a vehicle in his life - 1 month.... I'll get out at the next lights thanks !!!
As for p platers in turbo vehicles, vic has a law covering power to weight ratios for p drivers, but it is seldom enforced, just look at the amount of young invincible guys in worked wrx's vl's skyline imports etc..

If a low cost permanent endorsement on the existing license gave benifits in insurance and area access then sign me up.. My 2c for the day, BradMoo... everyone knows what a Jackaroo looks like :-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Melissa - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 11:54

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 11:54
Matt,

You are so right. Unfortunately I see it all the time. I work just north of WA's major ship building and maritime services area, which as you can guess employes a LOT of young men. After having witnessed and been unwittingly involved in a number of almost daily hair-raising incidents caused by these idiots driving like absolute morons as they leave work, I now make it a policy not to leave work at a time I know coincides with their end of shift.

The mere fact that I, as a fellow road user, are scared to share the road with them speaks volumes and is backed up by cold, hard, undeniable road safety figures that show that this age/male group represent the single biggest accident/fatality demographic than any other single group. So it has me completely baffled why 4WDrivers are being continually singled out and targeted when the authorities have completely failed to place restrictions or special requirments on those that obviously need it the most.

:o) MelissaPetrol 4.5L GU Patrol &
Camprite TL8 offroad camper
http://members.westnet.com.au/flatdog
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Follow Up By: jonny knowalittlebit - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 13:31

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 13:31
I hear you all but to date im under 25 and touch wood have never had a dingle the closest was a lady who jammed her brakes on to turn no idicator and my bumber just rubbed hers it didnt take any paint off at all let alone move the bumber.

With all these suggestions when will they stop? then if you drive a car thats over a certain length or hight oh and because of the new atv that holden have brought out will you need a special licence for them and zooks (no disrespect) but they are a 4 wheel drive but are smaller than most passenger cars. Itll never stop regulations for this and that maybe people ought to learn how to take responsibilities for there own actions and stay away from things that need careful decision making abilities, and not give the government a reason to put another levie on something.

Guy
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Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 14:13

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 14:13
Rob,
Of course it suits you to make such a statement. You will no doubt make a quid out of it. Why have a special licence for 4wdrivers. What is so different between driving a sedan and a 4x4.....just another axle to contend with. The same people doing stupid things with 4wdrives are the same people doing stupid things with their other cars. You are not going to stop people doing stupid things on the road no matter how much training you give them.

To my way of thinking this 4x4 Driver Training thing is an over rated impost devised by silly little club people who thought that this was a good way to go. And so lots of people get on the bandwagon and crap on about the merits of this training.

If you don't use common sense when driving a 4x4 on the road or out in the bush then its your fault and to your detriment if you stuff up.

Are you going to advocate 4x4 licences for Audi All wheel drive, Holden Cruze and other soft roaders...........?

I think it is time to can this debate and stop bringing it to the fore so that everyone can forget about these silly suggestions.

Willem

Always going somewhere
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Follow Up By: Brett - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 20:31

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 20:31
I agree Willem

mmmmmm. sorry to be critical Rob.

A commodore executive 3.8 ltr wagon weighs 1593 kg

A falcon wagon 4.0 ltr weighs 1692 kg

Patrol is 2360kg
My 75 series troopy is 2020kg

Doesn't appear to be "twice as much as a conventional car"

Your comparison is too broad and should be corrected if you wish to be taken seriously.

A license will make not one bit of difference because it doesn't really measure competency. In addition the cost would be astronomical andfurthermore it further restricts our CHOICE.

Drivers are responsible for their own actions.

Next you will be suggesting that we will need to get a TV license!!!
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Thursday, Nov 20, 2003 at 13:58

Thursday, Nov 20, 2003 at 13:58
Brett..

You seem in 2 of your posts more interested in peoples Rights..

"it further restricts our CHOICE"

and

"Forget about the license and think about the civil liberty or the rduction of civil liberties you PRO license garbage are sponsoring"

Life is full of rules, and laws... So your saying a truck license is a waste of time and liberties? Same with Bike license? Dangerous Goods License? Gun License?? Boat License?

Its how it is, I think the 4x4 license is horse bleep , but nothing to do with Liberties and dribble like that.

People need to be taught how to drive, a license is not a right to have thing, people should earn it. The way it is now, they dont.

And its more fun to Wake up and smell the Roses...
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Reply By: Tim - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 10:55

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 10:55
Sorry but I have to strongly disagree.
I won't crap on with various reasons, I'll just use 1 perfect example.
The government/public minority groups were against jet skis which could be ridden with a normal boat licence. They now have a licence just for jet skis, has tht solved any problems? No.
Some jet skiers (not all) are still driving round like d*ckheads, and I think the same would happen with a 4WD licence, it won't solve any problems, it won't get rid of the cowboys it will just be something else to pay for every year.
Tim
AnswerID: 37791

Follow Up By: Member - Alan- Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 11:24

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 11:24
Couldn't agree more Tim, licencing is generally only used as a further revenue raser and nothing else. Keep the bloody pollies and bureaucrats out of our pockets as much as we can, we're restricted enough as it is.
Look at the huge amount of police time and our money spent on buybacks and other licencing requirements on sporting shooters, does that stop the crooks and idiots from buying or using stolen legal, or illegal guns for criminal purposes? Of course it doesn't.
The latest figures from yet another inquiry/report in WA shows that 75% of unlicenced drivers continue to drive anyway. So what will they do to change that? Probaly introduce more unpoliced and unenforcable restrictions which will have little or no effect at all on those that they're meant for, because they simply do not obey rules and regulations.
Please, no more suggestions advocating yet more garbage from those useless pollies we have so many of!
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Reply By: Notso - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 11:35

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 11:35
The whole system of licensing drivers need to be looked at.

Our kids get taught how to get a licence, not how to drive. The first time any of em gets to control a vehicle in a skid or under emergency braking is when their lives depend on it.

It's not good enough really. If I was the regulators i would be improving the current licensing requirements first to make sure that when sonmeone gets a licence they can also drive, have sympathy for the vehicle, sympathy for other road users and an understanding of Risk management. These principles apply to every vehicle on the road not just 4WDs.

AnswerID: 37793

Follow Up By: Member - Bigbear - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 15:23

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 15:23
I agree.

Teach them how to drive, not just pass the test.
My daughter got her liscence and was having a minor prang every other week. Forced her to go to an advanced driver training program and from then on I think she has only had one incident since, in several years.

The current drivers test is rubbish and should be overhauled immediatlely. Too many kids are getting hurt unessecarily.
Bush Bappo's 4WD Club
Get out there & have a look
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Follow Up By: Rob from Cairns Offroad Training & Tours - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 20:15

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 20:15
At last someone is listening and making some sense, you are exactly right Notso, licences are given far too easily initially. We are not doing our kids any favours by giving them a licence before they are genuinely ready and capable. Stop thinking about pollies or trainers earning money think of the increased safety aspect. I am on the road driving 4wds every day it is unbelievable what I see so called experinced drivers do specially those all packed up and on thier way to or from the Cape. The current Nationally Accreditted Course is an extremely comprehesive course and provides a huge learning curve even for experieced drivers. I teach many women and it is always a pleasure and far easier than most men as there is no ego to contend with. The attitude, I can drive a car so naturally I can drive a 2.5 tonne 4wd with a higher cener of gravity and compromise tires equally as well on wet or loose surfaces is where so many ppl come unstuck. Cheers Rob Cairns Offroad Training & Tours
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 15:39

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 15:39
One country in Europe, it takes 6 mths and $4000 to get your license.. Cant remember where, but you have to drive in all conditions, rain, etc, change flat tires, change oil, general basic maintance..

Then they also do the skid pan, etc... proper driver training. not how to drive around the block.

But I can see a 4x4 license being backed by ever 4x4 driver trainer on the planet. Its a gold mine for them... 100,000 4x4 on the road, average of 4 drivers each cost of $400 per course, Talk about a retirement fund.. About $160,000,000

With the problem still being the same, what difference is there in a 4x4 or car? What other things are you going to show a kid? Go slower around a corner as they are higher, brake earlier as they dont stop as well as a GSXR 1000???

There is not that much difference in a Commode and a 4x4 to drive ON THE ROAD.. Offroad yes, lots of difference, but thats not what this is about. Its street driving thats the problem.

Then with less sales of 4x4 prices of new 4b's will skyrocket, most models wont be brought into the country anymore as there will be less demand, less options, insurance costs will rocket, its all bad as I see it.

I see no advantage at all in a 4x4 license.
AnswerID: 37824

Reply By: flappan - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 16:30

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 16:30
Doesn't matter what you drive . . . there's always a nut behind the wheel.
AnswerID: 37834

Reply By: landie - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 17:41

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 17:41
Yep, and the nut on the end of the throttle always seems to be the one that causes the most problems. Regardless of race, colour, creed or licencse - or vehicle !!
AnswerID: 37839

Reply By: GOB member vic - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 18:06

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 18:06
howdy all

i cant see what the problem is as i thought all 4bs were invisible by the no of d heads that cut me off in a day or is it just my gu or are we developing a generation of hereos who want to die because i get the feeling that it wont belong before i end up getting one and then it will be that barstard in the 4bs fault. but any awy if we are the invisible group why have a license at all

steveimagine a 03 gu 4.2tdin the picture
as i am having trouble sizing the picture
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Reply By: Murfa - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 19:23

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 19:23
Hi guy's

Sorry to argue your point here, but i'm a 23 male. Have earned every penny, and am onto my 3rd car now, not because of accidents, but by earing the money, working and upgrading. I have purchsed my first 4wd a mitsubishi challenger 2002 model last year, but my mates and i have been going away for years now in there 4wds. We treat the tracks, frazer, morton etc with the upper most respect. I would just like to say, it has nothing to do with age, it is a mentality factor. Have you seen the way motorbikes ride on our road, zipping in and out of traffic, driving up between two cars on the unbroken line to the front, and speeding off when they change, and the street drags, hot heads.......as if a 4wd could compete in a street drag....... Maybe the police should use some of there speeding fine revenue towards hotting up there cars to be able to keep up with the street drags, catching them and fining them for causing the trouble.

Sorry, once again a small minority is destroying it for the rest of us.
AnswerID: 37846

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 21:44

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 21:44
"Have you seen the way motorbikes ride on our road, zipping in and out of traffic, driving up between two cars on the unbroken line to the front, and speeding off when they change"

Having ridden and raced bikes for 20 years, I would like to argue that being at the front of the lights is the safest place to be, then get the hell away from the insane morons in cages... is it more the point your pist that they get infront of you?

Ive had mates killed by pricks not realizing the light was red and squashing them between the car infront of the bike and the **nt in the car..

"as if a 4wd could compete in a street drag....... "
LOL, you havent seen a few of the 200kw GQs around Epping way have you! LMAO! The looks on Ginos face as he gets toasted by a 2 ton GQ.!!!!
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Follow Up By: Hedonist - Thursday, Nov 20, 2003 at 02:17

Thursday, Nov 20, 2003 at 02:17
There is more than a little commonsense in what you say Murfa - It is the attitude and ability of the driver that counts, not their age.

I don't agree with your conclusion, but focusing on the behaviours that cause the problem is a much more helpful (and mature) response than just 'stirring the pot'.

Personaly I would like to see more emphasis given to driver training - as a long time bike rider myself I would like to see compulsory motorbike licences as a pre-requisite to a learners permit for a car - you become a lot more aware of other people on the road without two tonnes of steel to protect you... if you survive of course ;-)

Cheers,
Pete
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Reply By: howesy - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 21:34

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 21:34
While we're at it do you think I can get a licence to scratch my arse or perhaps to drop my guts in my own home, or are they on next years agenda.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 21:39

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 21:39
You can only have these if you already have your national nose picking license..
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Reply By: UB.1 - Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 22:49

Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 at 22:49
Hello all

As a qualified motorcycle instructor of 14 years, ex truckie - local & interstate, and driver averaging 30,000k each year, I think we all need to cool down and stop getting mad; then start getting political and gaining some justice.

When compulsory rider training was introduced in most states in the late 80s early 90s it reduced the number of fatal accidents amongst first year riders by 70%. This gave the polies something to attempt to justify better training or specialised licencing with but they warped it as usual.

At the time the polies agreed to phase in better quality driver training for all road users. It never happened because it would lose too many votes from Joe Public.

Instead we got half baked changes to P plates and mickey mouse log book systems for L drivers to gain their licences without thorough training or reasonable guided experiences. For years anyone could declare themselves a "Driving Instructor". Today any adult can "instruct" a relative or friend or stranger in the finer arts of driving providing they don't charge a fee or call themselves an instructor!

At the same time it got harder to get a motorcycle, bus, truck or taxi licence.

The reality is that most accidents are caused by inexperienced drivers. No matter how long they have held a licence most drivers have limited experience and panic in an unfamiliar situation.

The only solution is quality instruction of all new drivers by qualified and reqularly examined driving instructors. This must be accompanied by regular testing of drivers - it could be once every 5 years for example - but it must be regular and systematic. It won't be popular with Joe Public but it will save lives, injuries and reduce hospital waiting lists. It will also take the heat off 4wds as it is not we who cause most accidents but we are an easy target.

How many of us actually got their licence in a 4wd? I know I didn't and neither will most 4wders EVER. Let's ensure the basic training is quality before any more minorities are targeted.

I'm interested in your constructive feedback but not half-baked knee-jerk reactions or blaming others. Let's join together and really exert some influence on improving the driving in Australia. WE CAN DO THIS THROUGH THESE FORUMS, HASSLING POLITICIANS, USING THE LOCAL MOTORING CLUBS AND ASSOCIATIONS - heck even the press and media.

Remember its the motorcyclists and professional drivers who have the toughest road to obtain their licences today. Are we next or should it be everyone evenly and fairly?
AnswerID: 37877

Follow Up By: Brett - Thursday, Nov 20, 2003 at 00:45

Thursday, Nov 20, 2003 at 00:45
Forget about the license and think about the civil liberty or the rduction of civil liberties you PRO license garbage are sponsoring. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Do women in Tarago vans need a different License and if the get your new license will that allow them to drive a Rav 4 or will they need another one.

As I said .........wake up
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Follow Up By: Member - Alan- Thursday, Nov 20, 2003 at 18:35

Thursday, Nov 20, 2003 at 18:35
As I said before, forget about additional licencing as it's totally unnessecary, and will be used only as an additional revenue raiser by the pollies and bureaucrats.
Virtually no one on the roads whatever they drive, shows any consideration whatsoever for anyone else on that same road!
For instance, loads of cyclists also drive cars but does that make them anymore responsible for the way they ride their bikes? Does it hell, most of them show a complete disregard for the fact that they are the most vunerable beings on that road, they know the probs. that drivers are faced with, yet they still act as if they have a death wish!
Yes, younger drivers full of testosterone do behave erractically and dangerously, but what excuse have the rest got for acting in such pig ignorant ways.
Better policing by better police drivers than are about at present may eventually make a difference, and so will better education, but it'll be a long job getting the arrogant, ignorant and incompetent drivers off the road whatever they drive, and more licences won't do it!
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