Solar Hot water for permanent site.

Submitted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 at 20:24
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I would like to put together a low cost solar hot water system for a permanent site.

Something like a home made solar system similar to those on roofs.

I am thinking of an old HWS that doesn't work for storage, and using 20 or more meters of black irrigation pipe for the solar heater. It would be a passive system so the storage would be above the pipes. One connection from the bottom of the tank and one to the top.

Has anyone any idea if this will work and if the water would circulate if the irrigation pipe was left in a coil ( but spread out horozontally so all the pipe was exposed to the sun).

Any advice would be welcome. I would prefer a passive system and want to keep the price to a minimum as it is for a pensioner friend.
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Reply By: Ianw - Wednesday, May 11, 2011 at 22:06

Wednesday, May 11, 2011 at 22:06
Lots of stuff on "you tube"
homemade hotwater

Ian
AnswerID: 454018

Follow Up By: Ianw - Wednesday, May 11, 2011 at 22:17

Wednesday, May 11, 2011 at 22:17
But you will do better to use one or 2 of these panels.

Site Link

Ian
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Follow Up By: Ozhumvee - Thursday, May 12, 2011 at 07:28

Thursday, May 12, 2011 at 07:28
They are $40 cheaper here Solar hot water panel
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Reply By: Member - Tony V (NSW) - Wednesday, May 11, 2011 at 22:08

Wednesday, May 11, 2011 at 22:08
Totally feasible,

Random thoughts..

Passive is simple, need a header tank for top up use a ballcock if you got pumped water.

You will need to vent to the atmosphere at the highest point.

Only issue with a coil may be airlocks preventing circulation.

It is possible to get the water too hot and cause scolding, so commercial systems have a cold water inlet for that, so be very careful and try to transfer the water to another container before showering.


Worth trying out
AnswerID: 454020

Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Thursday, May 12, 2011 at 05:52

Thursday, May 12, 2011 at 05:52
Thanks, the water source is a stream and the hill is quite steep so i am hoping that the top of th eintlet abotu 20m up the hill will serve as a pressure outlet.

Also i wil keep an eye on the temp. If it is too hot i am thinking of a temperinv valve, but I am not sure how well it will work at low pressure.

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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Thursday, May 12, 2011 at 05:53

Thursday, May 12, 2011 at 05:53
Oops that shoud read
Thanks, the water source is a stream and the hill is quite steep so i am hoping that the top of the intlet about 20m up the hill will serve as a pressure outlet.

Also I wil keep an eye on the temp. If it is too hot I am thinking of a tempering valve, but I am not sure how well it will work at low pressure.
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Reply By: Farmboywa - Wednesday, May 11, 2011 at 22:53

Wednesday, May 11, 2011 at 22:53
G'day Boobook, I would be inclined to build a model using 10mm poly tube and a 10litre plastic bucket.If the coil didn't work you could rearrange the tube to horizontal parallel using available off the shelf push together fittings Would be cheap and fun at the same time.
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Thursday, May 12, 2011 at 05:50

Thursday, May 12, 2011 at 05:50
Good Idea.
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Reply By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Thursday, May 12, 2011 at 12:18

Thursday, May 12, 2011 at 12:18
Hi Boobook,

I have used a simple semi passive system for years and removed it during some renovations and will be reinstalling it in the near future.

I am on gravity feed with a head of about 1 metre above the top of the house.
This gives me a head of about 2 metres at the shower rose. Important for a decent shower.

My system used 3/4 poly ag pipe and I had a 240 volt pump which I set on a timer to come on for 5 mins in every half hour. The reason I used a pump was that the storage tank was at ground level and the solar collector was on the roof of the house.

I now intend to reinstall the system but using about 100 metres of poly pipe on the roof, a 12 volt pump and a 12 volt Flexy Timer from Jaycar. This timer has an infinite variation of timer settings. You being a ham operator will have no troubles building the timer as it is a kit.

This way the system will be run on a solar panel and battery to provide power for the setup. This will free me from the grid for most of the year.

I will use something like a caravan pressure pump to do the transfer controlled by the timer kit.

The timer will be set so the the contents of hot water in the pipe, or solar collector, will be transferred into the storage tank each time it turns on.

You will need some sort valve to shut the system down each evening to stop reverse cycling as it may cool your tank down overnight.

Cheers, Bruce.


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restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Thursday, May 12, 2011 at 12:30

Thursday, May 12, 2011 at 12:30
I should have added
What you are suggesting will work and if you want to keep it wholly passive just make sure that the cold line from the tank falls to the bottom of the solar collector and the hot water from the collector rises to the top of the tank.
I personally would use much more pipe than 20 metres, at least double that and the efficiency should be good.

As you are aware cold falls and hot rises, so keep a close eye on the convection principals and it will work. The only negative I can see is the reverse cycling overnight but a simple valve with an extension handle down to ground level will suffice to break the reverse cycling.

Cheers, Bruce.
(Retired Plumber)
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restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Thursday, May 12, 2011 at 12:50

Thursday, May 12, 2011 at 12:50
Me again,
The coil idea will inhibit convection, speaking from experience, so I would keep all runs straight. If you must use coils I would suggest that a pump would be required.

Image Could Not Be Found

Note that the line must always be rising from the coldest point of the collector to the top of the tank. Any checks in that rising line will inhibit convection.
Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Wednesday, May 18, 2011 at 09:16

Wednesday, May 18, 2011 at 09:16
Thanks Bruce, that is interesting. So you think the coil will kill the flow?

What about if there was a zig zag rising section as per your picture to act as a "pump" then a "booster" coil section above that to further heat the water. Do you think that has a chance of still flowing naturally?
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Follow Up By: Member - Bruce C (NSW) - Wednesday, May 18, 2011 at 10:27

Wednesday, May 18, 2011 at 10:27
Hi Boobook
In a coil type installation the hot water will collect at the top of each coil and effectively stiffle convection. A smallish solar panel and a smallish pump would overcome this problem by continually pumping to create flow but this is not passive and pumps and panels cost money.

Another way is to have a manifold at each end of your collector tubes and use many tubes to overcome a lack of roof space if that were a problem. Creating manifolds starts to cost some money as fittings have to be purchased. But the system still requires it to be rising all the time to the top of the holding tank

A zig zag setup as I have depicted will work, as I said, provided the line continually rises to the top of the collector tank with little or no check in that rising. Perhaps you have space to lay three zig zag lines beside each other and in that way you will increase the size of the collector and improve efficiency.

As for your suggestion I cannot say whether it would work as a pump but might be worth a try. But understand that the forces involved in convection are not great and can be easily disrupted.

below is a diagram of a manifold collector

Image Could Not Be Found

Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.

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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Wednesday, May 18, 2011 at 10:33

Wednesday, May 18, 2011 at 10:33
Thanks for your help Bruce. You knowledge has been very useful and your drawing skills are not bad either.

Cheers
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Reply By: Greg G - Saturday, May 28, 2011 at 21:23

Saturday, May 28, 2011 at 21:23
Hi Guys, EcoOnline.com.au Rep here, I noticed this post from the link to our panels below, thought I might add a couple of points.

One of the things you have to be really careful of when heating water is the growth of legionnaires bacteria in the water tank, lines and collectors. Legionnaires grows ideally at 35degC. Normally, solar hot water units boost temperatures up to 60DegC to kill legionnaires bacteria. I was researching this a while back as we wanted to commercialize a cheaper solar water heater, but never found a way around this potential issue.

Not sure about this but there are disinfectant products out there which could allow you to do this, you'd need to seek advice, but I still wouldn't recommend a permanent water storage unit.

I'd only recommend a temporary portable system with regular cleaning and disinfecting but again seek advice. One of our products which i have to point out is perfect for these types of systems and solves a lot of issues is our solar pump with integrated solar controller for systems where the collectors are above the tank. It turns off and on with the sun, no need for timers or valves to prevent cooling through reverse thermosiphon at night. But again seek advice on these types of systems with regards to legionnaires bacteria.

Willing to advise just contact me at EcoOnline
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